2016 Presidential Horse Race

[NDohio]

I more or less mean it that I heard nothing in there about assassinating Hillary which is what I'm seeing all over social media. Seemed like it was more of a call to not give up your guns if it comes to that, or a call to vote this year for gun-owners.

This is very similar to his Mexican/rapists comment. I think he knows this will cause a shitstorm and that it will be interpreted differently by many people.

The overall theme of this speech may be the above, but that sentence is absolutely in line with what social media is saying.

 

[Domina Nostra]

That's a perfectly coherent position. You'll recall this whole discussion kicked off when I shared a tweet alleging that a top GOP donor claims repealing the estate tax is "the linchpin of the conservative movement," which I think neatly encapsulates why it's currently being torn apart by a populist insurgency. It was only after wiz called it "evil" that I started defending it as the least problematic (in general terms) of the alternatives. But I can easily imagine tax reforms that do away with it entirely and leave us with a much more efficient and comprehensible system than we have now.

All true, good points.

The reality that we are seeing in politics right now is that political parties are coalitions of lots of different people with a lots of different positions who each compromise either to protect some fundamental interest or to prevent some greater evil (as they see it).

While neither party actually has a easily articuable philosophical approach that satisfies all of their members, or even makes consistent sense, once you've picked your team, you tend to start seeing the world through its lenses.

So if you were really pro-union in the 1970s, you started absorbing some of the abortion rhetoric from teaming up with the progressives. You start thinking workers rights and a certain form of feminism are part of one big package. Or if you were really pro-life, you started absorbing a lot of the free-market rhetoric from the laissez-faire crew. You think that the right to life and the right to economic freedom are a single package.

They aren't.

 

[NorthDakota]

What do you mean by "use them and fight back" if you don't mean "try to shoot someone"? (ETA: Or, at a minimum, threaten to shoot someone.)

I believe "and fight back" would refer to the people to defend against the tyranny of the government attempting infringe on their rights.

So yeah, I mean, they'd possibly be shooting them.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

All true, good points.

The reality that we are seeing in politics right now is that political parties are coalitions of lots of different people with a lots of different positions who each compromise either to protect some fundamental interest or to prevent some greater evil (as they see it).

While neither party actually has a easily articuable philosophical approach that satisfies all of their members, or even makes consistent sense, once you've picked your team, you tend to start seeing the world through its lenses.

So if you were really pro-union in the 1970s, you started absorbing some of the abortion rhetoric from teaming up with the progressives. You start thinking workers rights and a certain form of feminism are part of one big package. Or if you were really pro-life, you started absorbing a lot of the free-market rhetoric from the laissez-faire crew. You think that the right to life and the right to economic freedom are a single package.

They aren't.

Amen. Orthodox Catholics have always been politically homeless in this country, and while we seem to have successfully assimilated over the last several decades, the current state of the American Church and its institutions makes clear that it wasn't worth the price of admission. I'd like to see my co-religionists be Catholics first, and let their politics flow from there. Much better for the soul, and for avoiding the perils of partisanship.

EJ Dionne published a book in 2013 titled "Our Divided Political Heart" which claims there are two real divides in American politics today-- Left/Right, which deals with economic inequality and how to best address it, and Individualist/ Communitarian. The first axis corresponds roughly with solidarity/subsidiarity, so as long as one is orthodox and doesn't really drink the Kool-Aid from either extreme, Catholics in good standing can find themselves all across the spectrum. But on the second axis, I don't see much wiggle room; radical individualists are regularly on the cutting edge of evil these days.

So I guess: (1) be a Catholic first; (2) a communitarian second; and (3) the rest should work itself out.

Edit: If you're not Catholic, convert, then go to Step (1) :smilewink

 

[pkt77242]

Many people are saying -- that Trump drives conspiracies and gossip - CNNPolitics.com

 

[BGIF]

Many people are saying -- that Trump drives conspiracies and gossip - CNNPolitics.com

Soooo ... Trump has little hands but a Vast Right Wing.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Soooo ... Trump has little hands but a Vast Right Wing.

It's 'UGE. Trust me.

 

[GoIrish41]

Soooo ... Trump has little hands but a Vast Right Wing.

Which only makes his hands look smaller ...

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Trump: 'Second Amendment people' could deal with Clinton - CNNPolitics.com

Unbelievable. Trump is totally unfit to serve as president. This ridiculous statement proves it.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

Trump: 'Second Amendment people' could deal with Clinton - CNNPolitics.com

Unbelievable. Trump is totally unfit to serve as president. This ridiculous statement proves it.

C'mon man, he just meant...um... something else.....

 

[gkIrish]

Just listened to the audio. He 100% meant what it sounded like.

 

[RDU Irish]

Everyone has that crazy uncle that says unbelievable stuff all the time and "Oh that's just Uncle blah" is always enough to explain it. Yeah that's the guy apparently trying to finish third for president in November.

Johnson/whoever 2016!

 

[NDinL.A.]

Trump: 'Second Amendment people' could deal with Clinton - CNNPolitics.com

Unbelievable. Trump is totally unfit to serve as president. This ridiculous statement proves it.

Does this moron have an off button???

I'd be incredibly pissed if I was a Trump supporter. This idiot does nothing but create bad headlines for himself, thinking that all press is good press. Ummm, the polls say otherwise buddy. You were in it for a minute, and then you've done nothing but sabotage yourself. He even foolishly told FOX this morning that he wouldn't change his temperament and that what he was doing was "working" lol.

FWIW, I don't think he meant what others do, and I'm the biggest Trump critic here. I think he got mixed up with his timeline in his head, and was trying to say that the 2nd amendment people could stop Hillary BEFORE the election, but it came out really poorly. JMO. I think him again saying that the election will be rigged and joking that his sheep should vote 15 times for him is more appalling and a not-so-subtle way of giving him an excuse for the ass-kicking he might take in November. And it's embarrassing that he's trying to compare us to a 3rd world country, having rigged elections.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Just listened to the audio. He 100% meant what it sounded like.

I just listened to it too expecting to agree with you, but I don't.

Usually when he says something creepy he plays it up for effect. Like does some dumb face, or pauses.

This time he clearly said it in passing. I think its completely plausible that he meant the second amendment people could block a confirmation. Maybe he didn't, but that is pretty big thing to say with so little reflection.

Once again, I believe he says dumb things all the time, but that's a stretch to me.

Trump: Second Amendment People Could Stop Clinton From Picking Judges « CBS New York

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Does this moron have an off button???

I'd be incredibly pissed if I was a Trump supporter. This idiot does nothing but create bad headlines for himself, thinking that all press is good press. Ummm, the polls say otherwise buddy. You were in it for a minute, and then you've done nothing but sabotage yourself. He even foolishly told FOX this morning that he wouldn't change his temperament and that what he was doing was "working" lol.

FWIW, I don't think he meant what others do, and I'm the biggest Trump critic here. I think he got mixed up with his timeline in his head, and was trying to say that the 2nd amendment people could stop Hillary BEFORE the election, but it came out really poorly. JMO. I think him again saying that the election will be rigged and joking that his sheep should vote 15 times for him is more appalling and a not-so-subtle way of giving him an excuse for the ass-kicking he might take in November. And it's embarrassing that he's trying to compare us to a 3rd world country, having rigged elections.

I tend to disagree. I think there was a *nudge, nudge, wink, wink* thing going on. He's not the first to suggest something like this.

Sharron Angle Floated '2nd Amendment Remedies' As 'Cure' For 'The Harry Reid Problems'

Angle: I feel that the Second Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms for our citizenry. This not for someone who’s in the military. This not for law enforcement. This is for us. And in fact when you read that Constitution and the founding fathers, they intended this to stop tyranny. This is for us when our government becomes tyrannical...

Manders: If we needed it at any time in history, it might be right now.

Angle: Well it’s to defend ourselves. And you know, I’m hoping that we’re not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.

 

[ACamp1900]

Again,... No way he's trying to win.... Smh

 

[phgreek]

LOL. You seem to have a fan club! If you can have gotcha moments in a discussion of tax and social policy, I'm not really sure you are discussing them at all. But obviously your conclusion does not flow from your premise. I can agree with all of what you said and still think that other values come into play.

You don't like liberalism, but it seems to me that the estate tax is about as radically individualistic a tax as there is. Everyone is treated as an individual whose primary duty is to the state. When they die, they are treated as an individual (rather than a family member) and their assets are first and foremost the state's, to be put to the state's end. I think its fine that the State takes its share, but I don't like the double-nature of the estate tax. I think of it more like the tax entering the family, and should not get taxed again if it stays in the family.

I think that there are other institutions--family, Church--that proceed the State, and I favor a tax code that does not automatically place the State ahead of them. So, for example, within our system I support exemptions for gifts to family members, homestead exemptions, and some charitable exemptions.

I don't like estate taxes because people should be able to think of the family as an economic unit, and if they have worked, payed fair taxes, and then deferred enjoyment and saved assets for the long-term benefit of their family, I think that is a good thing. A wealthy, independent family is not a threat to society.

In the end, I tend to think a modest combination of income, property, estate, and consumption taxes are fine. But my overall desire would be a simple tax code with limited exemptions to aid families and small businesses, with slightly graduated tax rate, and reduced overall spending.

Has been a very large part of my approach to life. And I want to vote twice in each election while I'm alive if uncle Sugar gonna pop me twice on the same money.

 

[phgreek]

I just listened to it too expecting to agree with you, but I don't.

Usually when he says something creepy he plays it up for effect. Like does some dumb face, or pauses.

This time he clearly said it in passing. I think its completely plausible that he meant the second amendment people could block a confirmation. Maybe he didn't, but that is pretty big thing to say with so little reflection.

Once again, I believe he says dumb things all the time, but that's a stretch to me.

Trump: Second Amendment People Could Stop Clinton From Picking Judges « CBS New York

I didn't take it that he encouraged shooting her at all either...

But damn someone needs to help him if he is serious about winning...the media and lefties go batshit crazy every time he SAYS something remotely controversial...and he knows it....his team knows it...it is long past time to put on the big boy pants, stop saying things in ways that can be twisted, and deliver the message. He seems content flatening out his own member...shrug?

 

[woolybug25]

Again,... No way he's trying to win.... Smh

Watch the democrats get rid of death taxes (allowing his children to reap millions) right before their term end as payment for Trump single handily taking down the Republican Party?

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I didn't take it that he encouraged shooting her at all either...

But damn someone needs to help him if he is serious about winning...the media and lefties go batshit crazy every time he SAYS something remotely controversial...and he knows it....his team knows it...it is long past time to put on the big boy pants, stop saying things in ways that can be twisted, and deliver the message. He seems content flatening out his own member...shrug?

What do you think he meant by the statement? How could "2nd Amendment people" stop her from getting her Supreme Court appointments?

 

[irish1958]

Donald had better be careful of what he wishes for. His second amendment statement reminds me of King Henry II when he said "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest."

 

[Shamrock Theories]

Watch the democrats get rid of death taxes (allowing his children to reap millions) right before their term end as payment for Trump single handily taking down the Republican Party?

Worth

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Worth

Depends on what replaces it. You very well may like it even less than the GOP.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

if he is serious about winning?

I think you have figured it out

He is literally running as a publicity stunt

 

[Shamrock Theories]

Depends on what replaces it. You very well may like it even less than the GOP.

I mean Dems would say worth.

Funny shit regardless

 

[yankeehater]

The Trump comment makes every headline yet only conservative sights are talking about the fact the Orlando massacre terrorist's father was at Hillary's rally yesterday. I thought he was trolling her, but when interviewed by local news he claims he was invited. I know the seats visible who will be in plain view are not given to just anyone. Yet no one seems to care. He is also currently represented by CAIR who have know been deemed a terrorist organization by the FBI and UN Emirates. Hillary needs to explain!

The Orlando Shooter's Hillary-Supporting Dad Hates Gays Too, But I'm Sure That's Just A Coincidence - Breitbart

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Is Polish Leppy missing or hiding? Where is he to defend Donald and the fact that he's taking taking big money and naming big donors to his financial team? Surely, he can also defend Trump's 2nd Amendment comment too.
Ps: Lep neg repped me for saying not to believe that Trump wasn't being corrupted by big money.

 

[GoIrish41]

The Trump comment makes every headline yet only conservative sights are talking about the fact the Orlando massacre terrorist's father was at Hillary's rally yesterday. I thought he was trolling her, but when interviewed by local news he claims he was invited. I know the seats visible who will be in plain view are not given to just anyone. Yet no one seems to care. He is also currently represented by CAIR who have know been deemed a terrorist organization by the FBI and UN Emirates. Hillary needs to explain!

The Orlando Shooter's Hillary-Supporting Dad Hates Gays Too, But I'm Sure That's Just A Coincidence - Breitbart

Seriously? Don't be surprised when dad doesn't get pissed at you for not mowing the grass at the same moment your brother pulls into the driveway with a big dent in the fender of mom's new car. Blame the media if you wish but these two stories are not close to equal. Some things just attract more attention than others. Suggesting NRA people may take out the Democratic nominee for president is one of those things.

 

[wizards8507]

Seriously? Don't be surprised when dad doesn't get pissed at you for not mowing the grass at the same moment your brother pulls into the driveway with a big dent in the fender of mom's new car. Blame the media if you wish but these two stories are not close to equal. Some things just attract more attention than others. Suggesting NRA people may take out the Democratic nominee for president is one of those things.

Oh give me a break. Trump is a hack, an idiot, and a clown, but he wasn't ACTUALLY advocating assassination.

 

[yankeehater]

Seriously? Don't be surprised when dad doesn't get pissed at you for not mowing the grass at the same moment your brother pulls into the driveway with a big dent in the fender of mom's new car. Blame the media if you wish but these two stories are not close to equal. Some things just attract more attention than others. Suggesting NRA people may take out the Democratic nominee for president is one of those things.

I guess terrorism doesn't make the list?