2016 Fall Camp Thread

[arrowryan]

Both have shown to be exceptionally talented, but Kizer is (1) a full year younger, and (2) has the better arm. It's basically that simple.

I also dispute this whole idea of intangibles. I don't think there is any substance to that.

So Wimbush has the most upside out of everyone?

 

[gkIrish]

So Wimbush has the most upside out of everyone?

Yes 100%

#TeamWimbush

 

[arrowryan]

Yes 100%

#TeamWimbush

Agreed!

#WimbushForHeisman2017

 

[IrishBroker]

So Wimbush has the most upside out of everyone?

Yes

 

[ulukinatme]

Both have shown to be exceptionally talented, but Kizer is (1) a full year younger, and (2) has the better arm. It's basically that simple.

I also dispute this whole idea of Zaire having better intangibles. I don't think there is any substance to that. I think that all originated from sympathy he generated on Showtime.

Youth doesn't necessarily mean he's going to get exponentially better as time goes on. Some players hit their ceiling sooner than others. As far as Zaire's intangibles and leadership, people were touting them before the Showtime series. A lot of it started even after the LSU game, his vocal leadership on the field, and little things like the block he threw to help spring the back for a TD in that bowl. It's impressive garnering MVP honors in your first start, in a bowl game against a high profile opponent no less. Showtime didn't do that, Zaire did.

 

[Irish#1]

I meant Kizer transferring this year or Malik transferring next year as a 5th year. You ideally want both guys on the team this season and next before Wimbush takes over.

Won't matter what either do this year. Wimbush takes over next year. you heard it here first!

Well I would hold off on the "only one is going to be on the field anyway" as BK stated he has thought of the idea of having them both on the field at the same time.

And for the bolded statement, couldn't the same be said for running backs? I know they need breathers but Folston, Josh, and Dex can't max out their potential because they'll be subbing all the time.

Coaches want to get the most out of the talent that they have on the team and he can't do that if it is on the bench. I agree with LAX in that it probably won't be 50/50 (more like 65/35) and Zaire could play a similar role as Tebow did. Give him a run heavy playbook and beat the defense occasionally with his arm.

The problem with two QB's on the field at the same time is you essentially lose a blocker.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This is the main reason I don't get the consternation... unless it's a true tiemshare with everyone playing tight and being second guessed on every throw.

Tim Tebow as a frosh on that Florida team had 6.4 carries/game, 33.5 RYPG, 8 TDs with 2.4 passing attempts per game with a healthy 10.8 yards/attempt and 4 TDs. So Tebow got about 9 snaps a game and accounted for about 60 yards of offense and a TD. Most importantly, his efficiency numbers were off the charts... he lead every player with at least 50 rushing attempts in YPC, he threw a TD pass every 8 attempts, and his YPA was strong considering he was primarily used in short yardage situations. And if you look at Tebow's stats only over the second half of the season where he played more, they get even more eye popping.

The point is that Tebow wasn't used in place of Chris Leak. He was used in specific situations for specific plays that catered to his strengths. Let's say hypothetically ND uses Zaire like that... I think it's going to be incredibly effective... I just wonder what the fans do when Zaire's per play numbers are mind blowing.

That worked (and let's be honest here... it's one of the only instances of a two-QB system working well) because Leak and Tebow were very different QBs. Leak was an experienced senior with a more traditional skillset, while Tebow was a Zone Option savant, freshman phenom and a red-zone battering ram. It made perfect sense to create a limited package that took advantage of Tebow's unique skillset, while still allowing Leak to remain the #1.

But if you mix things up to match our current circumstances-- Tebow being older than Leak, Leak having a much smaller advantage in experience, and their skillsets being much more similar-- I'm not sure that works anymore.

 

[irishfan]

Might not mean much a few weeks from now. Crist got one half before he went to the bench for the season. Neither is that bad, but I can guarantee BK won't do anything stupid. If it's not working, he won't play both unless it's something like Zaire in the red zone.

My guess based on both QBs is that Kizer looks more polished and is better in passing drills while Zaire keeps doing better once they get to 11 on 11.

Aren't there rumors out there that Zaire is more popular with the team.....he might be doing this for camaraderie for now. It will go over somewhat better in the locker room if he goes with Kizer due to game performance and not because of a very tight camp race.

 

[GoIrish41]

So Wimbush has the most upside out of everyone?

Absolutely. That kid is going to be fantastic!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

So Wimbush has the most upside out of everyone?

Nope. #TeamJurkovec #2020orBust

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

You keep saying it as if it's fact. It never makes sense for any QB to transfer and sit out a year, but they do it anyway. He could transfer right now and still start 2 years for someone else.

Kizer is a legit NFL candidate, if he doesn't start or at least get a vast majority of the snaps

i'd transfer.

I'm team Kizer but not because I doubt Malik's ability he just isn't what I personally want in a QB. I don't want my QB to the ' rah, rah,' type. I want the ice in the veins type QB and that's Kizer IMO. I pray this works, but I don't think Brian Kelly is the right ' coach' for a two QB system. I don't think the "well..what about Cincinnati" argument works any more. He dropped 50 like it was nothing at UC and well, we haven't seen that yet at ND.

Bad decision IMO this just screams problems. I pray i'm wrong but this isn't sitting well.

 

[dwshade]

How many times have we heard that in the past?

And who says they'd go somewhere to sit out?


I'm playing devils advocate here, but, again, I could see a kid transferring from a school when he's got someone playing in front of him, and a stud waiting behind him.

If either were to leave they would have to sit out this season. Doesn't benefit either.

 

[dwshade]

Won't matter what either do this year. Wimbush takes over next year. you heard it here first!



The problem with two QB's on the field at the same time is you essentially lose a blocker.

Zero chance Wimbush beats out a Senior NFL high draft choice in Kizer.

 

[connor_in]

So MZ lines up in the slot, DK under center, JET SWEEP, pitch to MZ, he backs up a couple steps, heaves downfield to THjr or ESB?

 

[arrowryan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Elston states Bleacher Report partnership will reach prospects via Social Media and benefits recruiting angles more than A Season With.</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/766010131406553092">August 17, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[SoIll]

#NotreDame QB Malik Zaire on Brian Kelly's decision: "My whole goal is to turn chicken crap into chicken salad. We gotta make him right."

#NotreDame QB DeShone Kizer on Brian Kelly's decision: "I would love for it to be just me. In this situation, coach Kelly makes the call."

 

[arrowryan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Harry Hiestand says Tommy Kraemer hit the freshman wall the last couple days, but is coming out of it.</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/766006228929671168">August 17, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishBroker]

If either were to leave they would have to sit out this season. Doesn't benefit either.

Not true. You're assuming they'd go to a D-1 program.

There is nothing wrong with going D-2 and playing. These days, especially with big time program guys transferring down, the NFL is well aware and neither guy will have a hard time generating interest.

If their goal is to play football, they can do that immediately if they want to.

 

[Blaise]

So MZ lines up in the slot, DK under center, JET SWEEP, pitch to MZ, he backs up a couple steps, heaves downfield to THjr or ESB?

INTERCEPTION

 

[koonja]

Can't wait for both to look great against Texas in front of the entire world, then BK has a real mess on his hands. I'd be happier if one looked great and we never got to see the other one. I just think this is going to be a disaster.

 

[dwshade]

Not true. You're assuming they'd go to a D-1 program.

There is nothing wrong with going D-2 and playing. These days, especially with big time program guys transferring down, the NFL is well aware and neither guy will have a hard time generating interest.

If their goal is to play football, they can do that immediately if they want to.

Not happening. What big names are moving down?

 

[IrishLax]

That worked (and let's be honest here... it's one of the only instances of a two-QB system working well) because Leak and Tebow were very different QBs. Leak was an experienced senior with a more traditional skillset, while Tebow was a Zone Option savant, freshman phenom and a red-zone battering ram. It made perfect sense to create a limited package that took advantage of Tebow's unique skillset, while still allowing Leak to remain the #1.

Kizer is an experienced junior with a more traditional skillset, while Zaire is a zone option savant and RB-at-QB.

But if you mix things up to match our current circumstances-- Tebow being older than Leak, Leak having a much smaller advantage in experience, and their skillsets being much more similar-- I'm not sure that works anymore.

See, I don't think their skillsets are that similar. Kizer has great pocket presence, the height to see the whole field from inside the pocket, showed advanced ability to go through progressions as the year went on, and adequate athleticism. Zaire is an elite talent at running the ball, has not yet really demonstrated the ability to excel from within the pocket. I think that's what makes the coaches decision so difficult is that each has strengths relative to the other's weaknesses... even if the other guy is "adequate" in the area of weakness. Kizer can and has run the ball effectively in game situations, but coaches say Zaire is better. Zaire can and has been efficient throwing the ball, but coaches say Kizer is better at running the whole passing offense.

 

[irishfan]

Sorry if it was already mentioned, but I don't think ND as a team compares to OSU in 2015 with their QB situation. That team was not nearly as motivated from winning it all in 2014, and they seemed complacent more so than out of rhythm from QB play IMO.

 

[Henges24]

I just hope in the end Kizer is named the starter. If Zaire wins, Kizer will transfer next year and there will go our one QB that had a great chance of doing something in the NFL. Nd hasn't had a successful one in awhile..

 

[IrishBroker]

Not happening. What big names are moving down?

There are dozens of big time recruits outta high school that transfer out of large programs to go play at a smaller school. I'm not just speaking of QB's.

Yeah, maybe not household names on the BCS circle, but guys outta high school that had high marks and just for whatever reason, didn't get the PT.

And how can you possibly claim that it's "not happening"? Do you know these guys personally?

 

[arrowryan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One personnel note from today, defensive line coach Keith Gilmore said Julian Okwara expected to play this year. Thought he might be a RS.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/766020391240433664">August 17, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irish YJ]

I just hope in the end Kizer is named the starter. If Zaire wins, Kizer will transfer next year and there will go our one QB that had a great chance of doing something in the NFL. Nd hasn't had a successful one in awhile..

I just want the best to start. Whoever BK thinks can win the most games for ND. I'd hate for either to leave, but I could give a xxxx about what happens in the NFL.

It wouldn't kill us if either left. We do have BW who is likely the most talented of the 3 waiting in the wings. Don't take that as I'm ok with anyone leaving, but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. All three of them are D1 Power 5 starters and there's only one QB position.

#FirstWorldProblems

 

[RDU Irish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One personnel note from today, defensive line coach Keith Gilmore said Julian Okwara expected to play this year. Thought he might be a RS.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/766020391240433664">August 17, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

After completely wasting his brother red shirt year - he better be a big contributor if they do that.

 

[NDdomer2]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One personnel note from today, defensive line coach Keith Gilmore said Julian Okwara expected to play this year. Thought he might be a RS.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/766020391240433664">August 17, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

this is one of those is he that good, or is a position that bad? Hopefully its the first.

 

[dwshade]

There are dozens of big time recruits outta high school that transfer out of large programs to go play at a smaller school. I'm not just speaking of QB's.

Yeah, maybe not household names on the BCS circle, but guys outta high school that had high marks and just for whatever reason, didn't get the PT.

And how can you possibly claim that it's "not happening"? Do you know these guys personally?

Care to wager?