2016 Fall Camp Thread

[woolybug25]

For a D1 P5 TE? It didn't. Sorry - I don't see the prolific receiving threat that you do. Worth taking for depth/overall game/blocking, but not someone you're going to count on as a playmaker in the passing game at the college level at TE.

And the proof is in the production there.

What aren't you getting about this debate being about his high school production and tape. That is the claim you made that I am disputing, but you keep bringing up his college production as evidence that somehow his high school performance didn't happen. Every recruiting agency and anyone that has actually watched his tape disagrees with you.

You take top 10 overall TE's as depth guys used only for blocking? Ok Koon...

 

[koonja]

What aren't you getting about this debate being about his high school production and tape. That is the claim you made that I am disputing, but you keep bringing up his college production as evidence that somehow his high school performance didn't happen. Every recruiting agency and anyone that has actually watched his tape disagrees with you.

I've told you I'm not impressed with his receiving high school film. Not sure what you're not getting. If you're trying to convince me it actually is 'prolific', you won't, because it's not. It's OK for D1, P5 starting TE.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Disagree. Past performance is definitely an indicator (or my preferred word, Predictor) of future success/failure. It definitely isn't the only one but it is an important one.

Of course you are correct, I should've said it's not the only predictor of success. Further, i should've qualified it to the argument at hand, rather than the ether of countless fields.

Players routinely take a couple years to get their feet under them in collegiate sports. Occasionally there are freshman/sophomores who blow the doors off. It's farm more likely Smythe/Weishar see an increase in production this year compared to last year.

I'm wondering what the statistical graph looks like for collegiate TEs from freshman to senior years? I'll see what I can find. I bet it's similar to the output for OL.

 

[ulukinatme]

 

[zelezo vlk]

Weishar is the most prolific receiver in Illinois history. Not tight end, but receiver.

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[woolybug25]

I've told you I'm not impressed with his receiving high school film. Not sure what you're not getting. If you're trying to convince me it actually is 'prolific', you won't, because it's not. It's OK for D1, P5 starting TE.

Again, every recruiting agency disagrees with you. It is also pretty damn hard to have 89 receptions in a good high school league and not be impressive.

But go ahead. Put your head in the sand and believe what you want without any actual facts to back it up. Just your typical "telling it like it is". smh

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Weishar is the most prolific receiver in Illinois history. Not tight end, but receiver.

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That's not good enough for a p5 TE

 

[woolybug25]

Weishar is the most prolific receiver in Illinois history. Not tight end, but receiver.

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Be quite with that talk. He was only recruited to block and be a backup!

 

[STLDomer]

The guy had 89 receptions and over 1100 yards as a senior in a good league. You don't have any idea what you're talking about.

You know how many high schoolers who go D1 can claim stats like that? That's not special at this level, open your eyes and look at other teams from time to time and who they're bringing in.

Where is that production at ND? One came in 2013, other in 2014, so they're vets. 6 catches between them last year. 6. catches. Six.

Weishar is the most prolific receiver in Illinois history. Not tight end, but receiver.

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[Luckylucci]

Weishar is the most prolific receiver in Illinois history. Not tight end, but receiver.

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Irrelevant, he sucks. Koon said so, his tape is terrible and he runs and at a walking pace.

 

[gkIrish]

Koon was Sam Young a prolific high school offensive lineman?

His production at ND was not very good, must not have been...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Weishar is the most prolific receiver in Illinois history. Not tight end, but receiver.

Dun care. Didn't win the Mackey as a freshman.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

247 Top 5 Takeaways from practice today

No. 1 - McGlinchey's physicality

Mike McGlinchey is a stud. Massive frame. Don't let him have a clear shot in outside zone schemes or he will make you pay. Absolutely decleated Nyles Morgan in a 3 v 3 run drill.

No. 2 - Williams' explosiveness

My goodness he looks good. With Josh Adams addressing some lower half soreness, it has been Dexter Williams stepping up and garnering praise. Most vocal has been offensive coordinator Mike Denbrock. Plenty of "atta boy Dex" coming from Denbrock over the course of practice.

No. 3 - Redfield's leadership

"Let's be crisp today. Pad level, pad level, pad level." First in every line. Took accountability for the entire group. Max Redfield will be the starting free safety alongside Drue Tranquill against Texas.

No. 4 - Weishar's vision

Time and again, Nic Weishar gets open. Whether it's in 1v1s, 7 on 7, or team settings, he has a keen ability to find open lanes. Super sneaky route runner that consistently creates space. Irish QBs are doing a nice job of finding him as well.

No. 5 - Onwualua's technique

Lyght said "Do it like No. 17. Watch him." James Onwualu is the most vocal leader in the second level. Constantly load and demanding of the guys around him. He has the technique down and appears 100% in cover down situations. Young players are taking note.

 

[pkt77242]

Of course you are correct, I should've said it's not the only predictor of success. Further, i should've qualified it to the argument at hand, rather than the ether of countless fields.

Players routinely take a couple years to get their feet under them in collegiate sports. Occasionally there are freshman/sophomores who blow the doors off. It's farm more likely Smythe/Weishar see an increase in production this year compared to last year.

I'm wondering what the statistical graph looks like for collegiate TEs from freshman to senior years? I'll see what I can find. I bet it's similar to the output for OL.

Agreed. I would add that HS performance would benefit Weishar as it is his past performance (though it would be weighted less than previous college experience and even that weight would be determined by the level of HS competition).

 

[koonja]

Again, every recruiting agency disagrees with you. It is also pretty damn hard to have 89 receptions in a good high school league and not be impressive.

But go ahead. Put your head in the sand and believe what you want without any actual facts to back it up. Just your typical "telling it like it is". smh

Huh? How can you not wrap your head around the fact that I'm talking specifically about his ability as a receiving threat, not pass catcher + blocker + hands + size... All things that go into his 'rating'.

His film as a receiving threat didn't wow me. That has nothing to do with the other factors that go into his rating. He could excel as a blocker/size, but lack the threat in the open field, and still end a 4-star. It's not as binary as you need it to be to understand. Being a 4-star doesn't mean '4-star at blocking, catching receiving threat, size'. It means overall, 4-star.

Do you think Luatua was given a 4-star because of his 'prolific' threat as a pass catcher? No. It's because he was an elite blocker and a below average pass threat. And that evens out to be a low 4 in their opinion.

 

[zelezo vlk]

That's not good enough for a p5 TE

Be quite with that talk. He was only recruited to block and be a backup!

Irrelevant, he sucks. Koon said so, his tape is terrible and he runs and at a walking pace.

Dun care. Didn't win the Mackey as a freshman.

Sorry guys. I'll stick to sharing relevant stuff like if he took a free cruise in exchange for listening to a time share pitch. Or if he's got abs.

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[woolybug25]

Koon's like...

 

[Ndaccountant]

If their film was impressive to you, we have different definitions of what's good receiving film at this level. And if they are so prolific, not sure how the 3 of them mustered up 7 receptions over 13 games at TE U.

So let me get this straight.....you think the lack of production last year is all you need to make your call? The same year that 1st time starter Smythe was called into action and injured in the 2nd game of the year and forced two freshman TE's into action, both of whom were not physically ready to both block and catch? Not to mention that Kizer was a 1st time starter as well and would look to WR's and RB's that we has much more comfortable throwing towards? But you are right, last year is all we need to know to close the book on DS and NW.

 

[Booslum31]

Weishar is the most prolific receiver in Illinois history. Not tight end, but receiver.

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Yeah...but let's not forget that we are talking about Illinois.

 

[koonja]

Koon was Sam Young a prolific high school offensive lineman?

His production at ND was not very good, must not have been...

Wasn't he a 4-year starter at RT?

 

[woolybug25]

Huh? How can you not wrap your head around the fact that I'm talking specifically about his ability as a receiving threat, not pass catcher + blocker + hands + size... All things that go into his 'rating'.

His film as a receiving threat didn't wow me. That has nothing to do with the other factors that go into his rating. He could excel as a blocker/size, but lack the threat in the open field, and still end a 4-star. It's not as binary as you need it to be to understand. Being a 4-star doesn't mean '4-star at blocking, catching receiving threat, size'. It means overall, 4-star.

Do you think Luatua was given a 4-star because of his 'prolific' threat as a pass catcher? No. It's because he was an elite blocker and a below average pass threat. And that evens out to be a low 4 in their opinion.

Oh... There you are. I'm not even reading this post, I'm sure your answer is in one of the billion posts here of people disagreeing with you. Go stain a deck, Koon. Maybe that will go better for you.

 

[koonja]

So let me get this straight.....you think the lack of production last year is all you need to make your call? The same year that 1st time starter Smythe was called into action and injured in the 2nd game of the year and forced two freshman TE's into action, both of whom were not physically ready to both block and catch? Not to mention that Kizer was a 1st time starter as well and would look to WR's and RB's that we has much more comfortable throwing towards? But you are right, last year is all we need to know to close the book on DS and NW.

Nope. I made it clear that its his high school film, ND podcast comments of not being athletic enough to get open, lack of doing anything at ND in 2 years, getting passed by a true freshman, and his 3 receptions from last year.

 

[Wild Bill]

This wouldn't be a discussion if Smythe didn't get injured in week one last year. He's big, strong and athletic enough to separate from linebackers in man and smart enough to find the soft spot in zones.

My buddy coached against Weishar in high school and told me he was impossible to cover. Take it for what it's worth.

But yeah, I wish we had alize too.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Nope. I made it clear that its his high school film, ND podcast comments of not being athletic enough to get open, lack of doing anything at ND in 2 years, getting passed by a true freshman, and his 3 receptions from last year.

he didn't get passed last year....he got hurt.

 

[koonja]

I'm just going to keep quiet and enjoy the air raid that comes from Smythe and Wieshar. It's silly to think they will not be studs in the passing game this year. What was I thinking. Excited for the show.

 

[woolybug25]

Jesus Koon... The hole you're digging is about to pop out in China.

 

[koonja]

Jesus Koon... The hole you're digging is about to pop out in China.

Yes, digging a hole because I don't think Wieshar/Smythe will provide much in the passing game when there's so much evidence they're going to. Someone get me another shovel.

 

[Wild Bill]

I'm just going to keep quiet and enjoy the air raid that comes from Smythe and Wieshar. It's silly to think they will not be studs in the passing game this year. What was I thinking. Excited for the show.

Don't forget about Luatua.

 

[woolybug25]

Yes, digging a hole because I don't think Wieshar/Smythe will provide much in the passing game when there's so much evidence they're going to. Someone get me another shovel.

No one is even arguing that. lol

Just admit that you're wrong about his high school performance. You are clearly wrong here. Nobody is talking about what he will do this year. You're trying to deflect.

 

[koonja]

Don't forget about Luatua.

#MatchupNightmare