2015 PRE SEASON CAMP THREAD

[IrishSteelhead]

2015 PRE SEASON CAMP THREAD

I would like to see a loaded box met with a 15 play scoring drive, that consists of 15 runs between the tackles, and the longest one is 11 yards. Talk about hitting someone in the mouth. Sure it's schematically dumb, but it would be fun to watch the defense slowly curl up into a ball.

 

[Luckylucci]

I do think the box will be loaded. They are going to force Malik to prove he can beat them wit his arm. Our current strengths are OL, and known quality runners in folston and zaire.

Yea, I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about that opinion. Obviously we can do something to beat it, thats the point of the game. Each team comes with a plan and in most cases the one that executes the best wins.

Nobody said that it would work, we were saying thats what we would do if we were Texas to start the game. In simple form, I certainly wouldn't sit back in some sort of Cover 2 and let ND eat them up on the ground and in the middle of the field. The goal is to force teams to beat you with there weakness. As even our coaches have explained our weakness is still consistency in the passing game. I'd play Cover 1 and have a S or LB designated to Zaire.

 

[kmoose]

I would like to see a loaded box met with a 15 play scoring drive, that consists of 15 runs between the tackles, and the longest one is 11 yards. Talk about hitting someone in the mouth. Sure it's schematically dumb, but it would be fun to watch the defense slowly curl up into a ball.

^^ Football porn ^^

 

[wizards8507]

I would like to see a loaded box met with a 15 play scoring drive, that consists of 15 runs between the tackles, and the longest one is 11 yards. Talk about hitting someone in the mouth. Sure it's schematically dumb, but it would be fun to watch the defense slowly curl up into a ball.

With fullbacks!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

 

[NDALA]

I would like to see a loaded box met with a 15 play scoring drive, that consists of 15 runs between the tackles, and the longest one is 11 yards. Talk about hitting someone in the mouth. Sure it's schematically dumb, but it would be fun to watch the defense slowly curl up into a ball.

I agree!

 

[IrishLion]

With fullbacks!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

Does Luatua lining up as a wing and motioning through the backfield at the snap count?

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

I don't have as many questions for Kelly as I do for posters in this thread :

• Does anyone even think that a competent coach would start off a game loading the box against this ND offense? To what end, or to prove what point?
  
• Why wouldn't Kelly want this team, with this offense to have the ball first? If the last question elicits head scratching, or nut scratching for that matter; why? Why wouldn't you want to put an offense with this kind of offensive line, and this talent at the skills to touch the ball early and often?
  
• Why does everyone believe that things have to start off in some dramatic bad fashion?
  
• What is the benefit there?

Just for a clarification, if the box were loaded, wouldn't a deep, a play action, a quick tight end route, or even an inside read option work well to counter that defensive adjustment? Wouldn't any inside or outside zone read work well, especially if you call it to the weak side of their defensive formation?

1. Teams will manipulate the looks trying to confuse Malik. The box will be loaded until it's clearly evident that Malik can adjust and make the necessary throws.

2. I look at it as why not put the pressure on the opposing team to get Out to a quick start? Put the pressure on them especially at home to draw first blood. Starting with the ball in the second half is way more of an advantage than taking the ball in the first half. But that's just my opinion though

 

[woolybug25]

If you run a tempo, the idea is to maximize drives and start fast. Deferring the toss goes against that philosophy. Coaches that run tempo still do it, but if you think of the philosophy, it doesn't make sense. I prefer to defer, but I also prefer run heavy offense that gets backed up by strong attacking defense.

It took me while, but it reminded me of an article from John Clayton back in '11. He explains it well.

To support my theory, the team that received the opening kickoff was first to score 59.8 percent of the time. Even more telling is the team that received the opening kickoff scored 34.8 percent of the time on that first possession, netting 53 touchdowns and 36 field goals.

If a strong offensive script can fulfill a long week of practicing and scheming and produce a lead on the opening possession 34.8 percent of the time or eventually provide field position to get the first score almost 60 percent of the time, why give that up?

NFL: The numbers show deferring on the opening kickoff doesn't make sense

 

[Cackalacky]

I would like to see a loaded box met with a 15 play scoring drive, that consists of 15 runs between the tackles, and the longest one is 11 yards. Talk about hitting someone in the mouth. Sure it's schematically dumb, but it would be fun to watch the defense slowly curl up into a ball.

^^ Football porn ^^

 

[dad4aa]

Lou never deferred. I believe Charlie was the first to start this at ND and we see what kind of schematic advantage his ideas brought. Someone who wants to take time and research it can correct me if I am wrong (or confirm that I'm right).

 

[ulukinatme]

I'm tempted to go with the numbers, but I also know that different teams behave differently at the start of a game and after halftime. I would wager that teams that start strong would rather have the ball first, while teams that do better after halftime, like FSU did last year, would probably rather have the ball to start the half. You have to know your team I guess.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

I'm tempted to go with the numbers, but I also know that different teams behave differently at the start of a game and after halftime. I would wager that teams that start strong would rather have the ball first, while teams that do better after halftime, like FSU did last year, would probably rather have the ball to start the half. You have to know your team I guess.

The big thing about receiving/kicking is that the point differential determines how aggressive a team has to be at at what point they need to determine that. If you have put a lot of points up early and force the other team to change their gameplan to a more aggressive one, it's to your advantage to receive. What deferring lets you do is let you determine how aggressive or conservative while already knowing the point differential at at the half. Similar arguments can be made against a quick scoring vs ground and pound offenses.

 

[Redbar]

At the beginning of a big game, at home, it is my opinion that it is to the home teams advantage to put their defense on the field first. Make the other team settle down and try to find a rhythm while the crowd is oppressive and your guys are wanting to fly around and hit someone. Even if they score in some fashion, everyone is still psyched when the offense gets on the field. Nothing sucks the air out of the stadium like a false start and then a quick TO then a three and out punt, giving the opponent a relatively short field. Nothing invigorates the other team like getting an early stop and knowing they get the ball at half. It is game psychology not statistics and probabilities in my mind.

 

[dublinirish]

always like to see the defense on the field first

 

[NDBoiler]

Lou never deferred. I believe Charlie was the first to start this at ND and we see what kind of schematic advantage his ideas brought. Someone who wants to take time and research it can correct me if I am wrong (or confirm that I'm right).

I actually remember quite the opposite about Lou lol. I recalled that he often deferred. Personally I liked that because it seemed that most of the time his defenses would come out fired up and shut down the opposing offense early to help set the tone for the game. It also gets the home crowd into the game from the start. This is all well and good assuming your defense can stop the opponent of course.

 

[woolybug25]

I actually remember quite the opposite about Lou lol. I recalled that he often deferred. Personally I liked that because it seemed that most of the time his defenses would come out fired up and shut down the opposing offense early to help set the tone for the game. It also gets the home crowd into the game from the start. This is all well and good assuming your defense can stop the opponent of course.

I don't buy this part. Defensive stops are rarely as exciting as an offensive TD.

Tone gets set either way. A lot of how people feel about this topic is purely emotional and what they prefer. Which is fine, but even as one of those people, it still weird to me that people thinks it's crazy that coaches take the ball first. Numbers don't lie.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I think the choice would be more obvious if we knew what we had on either side of the ball to start the game.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Well then is the most likely 'scenario' practiced this week, making adjustments to throw over the loaded box? Or opening drive scripting?

Funny, huh?

 

[Section20Row27]

If you have confidence in your Team, you take the opening kick off. You are confident your offense can score on the opening drive, and you are confident your defense will stop the opponent on their opening drive in the second half.

 

[NDdomer2]

I don't buy this part. Defensive stops are rarely as exciting as an offensive TD.

Tone gets set either way. A lot of how people feel about this topic is purely emotional and what they prefer. Which is fine, but even as one of those people, it still weird to me that people thinks it's crazy that coaches take the ball first. Numbers don't lie.

Outside the NFL (orgs. known for their D), I would agree fans are more excited about TD's, exciting offensive plays over defense. Fans tend to get invested in the defense towards end of the game (given team isnt getting blown out or up big) when stops are of higher importance.

Now defensive turnovers are different story. You take something to the house and the place explodes.

 

[NDdomer2]

Well then is the most likely 'scenario' practiced this week, making adjustments to throw over the loaded box? Or opening drive scripting?

Funny, huh?

I don't think they sit down with a plan of how to throw "over" the loaded box. I think you script to strengths and use formations/plays to help unload the box.

As much as I want to see 2/3 TE sets and us pound it down the field. We are going to see a lot of 4 wide to force respect on the outside. Quick throws to the flats and roll outs. Just my opinion.

 

[JD Irish]

Why would Kelly defer the opening kickoff? Did you see our defense last year? It basically would have been the equivalent of spotting the other team 7 to start the game. Having the first drive against LSU is what allowed us to stay in it until the end.

 

[Booslum31]

Why would Kelly defer the opening kickoff? Did you see our defense last year? It basically would have been the equivalent of spotting the other team 7 to start the game. Having the first drive against LSU is what allowed us to stay in it until the end.

I think that coaches like the idea of coming out after half time with the ball first. They have had a full half to see what the defense is trying to do to them and they can make solid adjustments during half time. I know as a fan, I like knowing we get the ball first after the break...especially when our defense was struggling or beat up.

 

[dublinirish]

I think that coaches like the idea of coming out after half time with the ball first. They have had a full half to see what the defense is trying to do to them and they can make solid adjustments during half time. I know as a fan, I like knowing we get the ball first after the break...especially when our defense was struggling or beat up.

that's my thinking too. you have a whole half of seeing the opponent's defensive scheme and you have the halftime to adjust and hit them straight away

 

[woolybug25]

that's my thinking too. you have a whole half of seeing the opponent's defensive scheme and you have the halftime to adjust and hit them straight away

They also have an entire half to evaluate our team too. There is only one drive where neither team knows what the other brings, and that's the first one.

 

[Section20Row27]

They also have an entire half to evaluate our team too. There is only one drive where neither team knows what the other brings, and that's the first one.

Agree 100%.

 

[IrishLion]

I think that coaches like the idea of coming out after half time with the ball first. They have had a full half to see what the defense is trying to do to them and they can make solid adjustments during half time. I know as a fan, I like knowing we get the ball first after the break...especially when our defense was struggling or beat up.

that's my thinking too. you have a whole half of seeing the opponent's defensive scheme and you have the halftime to adjust and hit them straight away

Eh, I've always felt that one of Kelly's strong points as a coach is coming out in the beginning of the game with two or three masterfully-scripted drives (when they aren't being killed with early timeouts and delay penalties), so I think the whole adjusting before/after halftime is a wash.

 

[NDohio]

For the Texas game, it doesn't matter. We should get the ball to start both halves...

Texas couldn't have had a worse start vs. No. 12 UCLA

UCLA won the toss and chose to defer. But then Texas chose to kick the ball off to the Bruins, so UCLA will wind up getting the ball to start the first and second half.

 

[IrishLion]

For the Texas game, it doesn't matter. We should get the ball to start both halves...

Texas couldn't have had a worse start vs. No. 12 UCLA

Ha this almost happened to my team in high school. We were out for the coin toss, which the opposing team won. Their captains looked at their head coach...

Their coach: "We want to kick."

Our coach: "No you don't."

Their coach: *look of confusion and disbelief* "Yes, we want to kick. We won the toss."

Our coach: "No, you do not want to kick the ball. You want to defer. Or else you will kick off to start both halves."

Their coach: "We defer."

 

[wizards8507]

They also have an entire half to evaluate our team too. There is only one drive where neither team knows what the other brings, and that's the first one.

I'd rather have more information than less. I think the element of surprise is overrated. "They are who we thought they were." I'd rather maximize my control of the ball (and therefore the clock) in the second half, when you have the most possible information about how the game is playing out.