2013 Fall Camp Thread

NDohio

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I'm not picking on you because I know I'm in the very small minority on this one, but can someone please explain the "losing Golson is a big deal" sentiment to me? Last year, Everett Golson's range of play was anywhere between "dreadful" and "pretty good." He was wildly inconsistent but people seem to be in love with him just because he's an "athlete." The closest analogy I can draw to Golson is Tim Tebow. Not Florida Tim Tebow, but the NFL Tim Tebow. He has a definite set of skills but he hasn't shown me ANYTHING that indicates he can actually play the position. People seem to assume that he would have somehow blossomed into RGIII in the offseason but I think that's just a tad unrealistic.

From a prognosticator's viewpoint, any team losing their starting QB would be a big deal. That is how I was looking at that.

For me, I really like EG's upside and loved the way he played in the NCG but I also have a good feeling about TR. I do not think it is as big of a deal(losing our starting QB) as the experts believe.
 

Old Man Mike

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No thinking Irish fan should have ever been looking at the 2013 offense as the reason that ND will win ballgames [even with Everett]. Our offense will be better than last PROBABLY if we have no injuries on the OLine and Niklas can figure out who to block on every play. We have an abundance of talent even at RB. All else should smooth out. Neither Tommy nor Everett were slated to be error-free Andrew Luck''s.

Notre Dame will win nearly every game if there are no injuries to the front defensive seven. The opponent which scores 21 against us will be a rare bird indeed; maybe non-existent. If the offense gets 21 every game, we might go 12-0. We can worry a little less as to how great the Offense will be because the Defense will allow them to get wins without "greatness".



The "21" point ceiling for opponents obviously refers to points gained in situations before we've put games out-of-reach. [i.e. garbage not included]. And, I'm planning on the Offense and the special teams not giving away gifts either.
 

BGIF

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We ran the ball for 270 yards at 6.3 yds/rush (7.2yds/rush if you don't count Rees' rushing stats and the kneel downs) vs. BYU's elite front seven last year, which was our 3rd best rushing production (Miami was #1 and Navy #2). The reasons it was a close game is (a) our kicker missed two FGs (b) we gave BYU a short field after an INT that our WR should have caught (it hit him right in the hands!) and (c) our defense actually struggled to get off the field at times.

I think the only front sevens that will give us trouble this year are ASU and Stanford, which, not coincidentally, are the two games I have the least confidence in us winning.

The reason it was a close game was ND made 5 trips into the Red Zone and only scored 2 TDs. Last year's RZ TD Success Rate was ND's lowest in the 6 years CFBStats.com has kept stats. Worse than '07 and '08.

ND's worse RZ TD Success Games in '12:
BYU 2-5
Pit 3-8
PU 2-5
USC 1-6

Yes, Brindza missed 2 FGs. Two of the five he missed all season while hitting 23-28. But Brindza should not have been attempting 3 FGs in that game. It was RZ TD issues but Brindza still provided the margin of victory.

Yes, ND rolled up 270 Yds rushing BUT they did it between the 20's, NOT in the RZ.

There may have been some emotional letdown after the exciting goal line stand and OT win the week before against Stanford.

There may also have been more walking wounded, dinged up by The Tree. Golson was, he missed the BYU game which could have contributed to some offensive mis-firings like dropped passes or timing coordination.

Whiskey pointed out BYU stiff defense calling them Top 10. They were even better. The NCAA Final stats lists them:
Rushing D #2
Pass Eff D #19
Total D #3
Scoring D #3

Somebody commented BYU wasn't very good. Not accurate, either. They were only 8-5 but lost to Utah by 3 points, to BSU by 1, to Oregon St by 21 (their only beating), by 3 to ND, and to, 11-2, San Jose by 6. Sagarin's Final Ratings had ND 4th and BYU 17th, rated 6 pts less than ND. What Sagarin's Rating don't show is that BYU had to play 3 QBs with two of them totaling a missed year between them. Unlike ND, BYU didn't have a Tommy Rees to come off the bench.


What the SI writers recently referred to as ND's luck in '12 with several close wins was actually Several close games caused by ND's Offense worse Red Zone TD Success Rate going back at least through all of the Weis years and probably, a guess here, the Willingham years. In Willingham,s first year the writers correctly wrote about Ty's Smoke and Mirros Offense. ND couldn't move the ball between the 20's back then. By an INT or a Special Teams Fumble Recovery was close to an ND automatic 7 points.

Converting 10 of last year's FGAs into TDs adds 40 points and ups ND's PPG to 30, eliminating several close games/season and The Luck of The Irish comments.
 

Kak7304

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The reason it was a close game was ND made 5 trips into the Red Zone and only scored 2 TDs. Last year's RZ TD Success Rate was ND's lowest in the 6 years CFBStats.com has kept stats. Worse than '07 and '08.

ND's worse RZ TD Success Games in '12:
BYU 2-5
Pit 3-8
PU 2-5
USC 1-6

Yes, Brindza missed 2 FGs. Two of the five he missed all season while hitting 23-28. But Brindza should not have been attempting 3 FGs in that game. It was RZ TD issues but Brindza still provided the margin of victory.

Yes, ND rolled up 270 Yds rushing BUT they did it between the 20's, NOT in the RZ.

There may have been some emotional letdown after the exciting goal line stand and OT win the week before against Stanford.

There may also have been more walking wounded, dinged up by The Tree. Golson was, he missed the BYU game which could have contributed to some offensive mis-firings like dropped passes or timing coordination.

Whiskey pointed out BYU stiff defense calling them Top 10. They were even better. The NCAA Final stats lists them:
Rushing D #2
Pass Eff D #19
Total D #3
Scoring D #3

Somebody commented BYU wasn't very good. Not accurate, either. They were only 8-5 but lost to Utah by 3 points, to BSU by 1, to Oregon St by 21 (their only beating), by 3 to ND, and to, 11-2, San Jose by 6. Sagarin's Final Ratings had ND 4th and BYU 17th, rated 6 pts less than ND. What Sagarin's Rating don't show is that BYU had to play 3 QBs with two of them totaling a missed year between them. Unlike ND, BYU didn't have a Tommy Rees to come off the bench.


What the SI writers recently referred to as ND's luck in '12 with several close wins was actually Several close games caused by ND's Offense worse Red Zone TD Success Rate going back at least through all of the Weis years and probably, a guess here, the Willingham years. In Willingham,s first year the writers correctly wrote about Ty's Smoke and Mirros Offense. ND couldn't move the ball between the 20's back then. By an INT or a Special Teams Fumble Recovery was close to an ND automatic 7 points.

Converting 10 of last year's FGAs into TDs adds 40 points and ups ND's PPG to 30, eliminating several close games/season and The Luck of The Irish comments.

In all fairness, the '07 red zone sample size is pretty low.
 

clashmore_jon

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i was worried abut this years offense even with golson coming back....much less with tommy at the helm.
for lots of reasons.

uncertainty at rb
losing eifert
not sold on our stable of te's just yet

i just have this fear of a sort of plodding offense, with no rhythm, and spending a season watching tommy looking over to the sidelines at the LOS for the play all year

go irish!

That's a reasonable (reesonable?) fear i think, but I have a feeling we're going to see more uptempo this year. Rees knows the offense, and we've prepped all summer knowing rees is our guy. He can make quick decisions and presnap reads. Combine that with the BK uptempo offense, which is designed to limit fancy defensive schemes, and i could totally see us taking advantage of mismatches all the way to the end zone, in a hurry.
 

NDohio

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That's a reasonable (reesonable?) fear i think, but I have a feeling we're going to see more uptempo this year. Rees knows the offense, and we've prepped all summer knowing rees is our guy. He can make quick decisions and presnap reads. Combine that with the BK uptempo offense, which is designed to limit fancy defensive schemes, and i could totally see us taking advantage of mismatches all the way to the end zone, in a hurry.

I would love to see some no huddle!
 

RDU Irish

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Plus the rest of the offense should actually know where they are supposed to be. 2011 that definitely was not the case.
 

ulukinatme

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That's a reasonable (reesonable?) fear i think, but I have a feeling we're going to see more uptempo this year. Rees knows the offense, and we've prepped all summer knowing rees is our guy. He can make quick decisions and presnap reads. Combine that with the BK uptempo offense, which is designed to limit fancy defensive schemes, and i could totally see us taking advantage of mismatches all the way to the end zone, in a hurry.

I'm pretty sure BK mentioned this a few weeks ago, you're spot on though. Rees knows the offense, we've got a lot of veterans of BK's system on the field, and Martin is calling the plays as oppose to Charley Molnar who was a little slower getting the play in if I recall. Running up tempo would be great for our offense and help keep the defenses we face off guard. Not only that, it would allow us more opportunities to score since we're not chewing up as much clock...on the flip side though that means our defense is on the field more than they have been. Hope Longo has these guys well conditioned and ready for this season.
 

Irish#1

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Right. Kelly was on with Jack Arute and Gino Toretta on Tuesday and touched on the qb situation as compared to last year. He pointed out how several times Golson didn't check out of run plays when the box was over manned, and vice versa for pass plays. Golson also struggled to take advantage of match ups in the passing game, which Rees excels at. It's unlike BK to really pump up a certain player, but he seemed uber-confident in Rees' ability to move the football and get the offense in the right situations every time. He also pointed out that Rees is surprisingly more athletic this fall camp, able to slide his feet, hit windows, and great in the red zone. I know BK was also quoted in the presser as saying they'll score more than in 2012 (which isn't saying a lot), but it's obvious he is very happy with where this team is going into this season.

Rees doesn't have the wheels or arm strength of EG, but he is much better at getting us into the right play. TR's biggest fault to date has been when he tries to force a throw into a small window. I just don't see him doing that this year.

Actually Golson was in the pocket when he hit Brown with the bomb against OU, but I'm splitting hairs. He still made the throw, just didn't set it up with his feet.
 

Irish#1

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I'm pretty sure BK mentioned this a few weeks ago, you're spot on though. Rees knows the offense, we've got a lot of veterans of BK's system on the field, and Martin is calling the plays as oppose to Charley Molnar who was a little slower getting the play in if I recall. Running up tempo would be great for our offense and help keep the defenses we face off guard. Not only that, it would allow us more opportunities to score since we're not chewing up as much clock...on the flip side though that means our defense is on the field more than they have been. Hope Longo has these guys well conditioned and ready for this season.

I think you'll see no huddle, but only in certain situations, like to start the game or second half, if we're struggling on offense or to follow up a score to push the opponents D.
 

OCIrish

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I'll reserve judgement till Ann Arbor.........Temple doesn't concern me in the least, I mean, if we don't steamroll the Owls, we're in for a LONG season, but Meatchicken is another story.....
 

ACamp1900

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I'll reserve judgement till Ann Arbor.........Temple doesn't concern me in the least, I mean, if we don't steamroll the Owls, we're in for a LONG season, but Meatchicken is another story.....

I'm very much here, my expectations for the season will be better known after Michigan...
 

Kak7304

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That's a reasonable (reesonable?) fear i think, but I have a feeling we're going to see more uptempo this year. Rees knows the offense, and we've prepped all summer knowing rees is our guy. He can make quick decisions and presnap reads. Combine that with the BK uptempo offense, which is designed to limit fancy defensive schemes, and i could totally see us taking advantage of mismatches all the way to the end zone, in a hurry.

This is the first season where Rees knew he would start and took a majority of snaps in camp which is huge for this offense. As far as running an uptempo offense, I'm not sure if we will or not. We have a good OL and a huge stable of talented RBs so we might take our time pounding the ball.
 

clashmore_jon

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This is the first season where Rees knew he would start and took a majority of snaps in camp which is huge for this offense. As far as running an uptempo offense, I'm not sure if we will or not. We have a good OL and a huge stable of talented RBs so we might take our time pounding the ball.

sure, but when needed i think we can show uptempo too, and do it well. And i dont think either will be a
plodding offense, with no rhythm, and spending a season watching tommy looking over to the sidelines at the LOS for the play all year
 

Rhode Irish

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SIAP, per BGI, Massa and Kinlaw have taken reps at QB recently

Neither one of them need the reps anywhere else, since they are unlikely to see the field this year. Not a bad idea to be prepared in case an emergency arises and they aren't ready to burn Malik's redshirt.
 

Kak7304

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Neither one of them need the reps anywhere else, since they are unlikely to see the field this year. Not a bad idea to be prepared in case an emergency arises and they aren't ready to burn Malik's redshirt.

Zaire has also been missing some time with mono. Couldn't play if we needed him.
 

Kak7304

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Just found this article.

Notre Dame football notebook: QB Zaire out for Temple game - South Bend Tribune: Football

SOUTH BEND - Brian Kelly was optimistic but had a backup plan just in case.

The Notre Dame head football coach figured freshman quarterback Malik Zaire was far enough along in his recovery from mononucleosis that he would be healthy and available to be the No. 3 quarterback for 14th-ranked Notre Dame’s opener Saturday against Temple (3:30 EDT; NBC).

Zaire’s bloodwork Thursday morning said differently.

Kelly’s emergency option behind starter Tommy Rees and backup Andrew Hendrix will be quarterback-turned-wideout-turned-temporary quarterback Luke Massa. Massa took extended snaps this week in practice as a QB for the first time in three years.

“We were hopeful he was on the back end of it,” Kelly said of Zaire’s bout with mono. “And we were really hopeful we were going to get him cleared (Thursday), but he just didn’t get cleared, so we’re going to be hopeful for Monday.”

Massa, a 6-foot-4, 237-pound senior from perennial national prep power Cincinnati St. Xavier, has not played in a game for the Irish at any position since making scattered special teams appearances in 2011.

He was recruited to Notre Dame as a quarterback, first committing when Kelly was the head coach at the University of Cincinnati, then followed him to ND when Kelly landed the Irish job in December 2009.

After redshirting in 2010, Massa moved to wide receiver but has yet to make a catch. He stayed connected to the QB position as one of the players signaling in plays to the starter on gameday Saturdays.

This season he’ll also be the Irish holder on extra points and field goals.

“He’s a great teammate, and he’s a kid who does whatever we ask him to do,” Kelly said. “And for a guy who had two days, three days of work (at QB), it’d be nice if we got him in the game and it wasn’t because of injury.”

Kelly is mindful of having plenty of quarterbacks ready. During the 2008 season at Cincinnati he went through five different starters because of injury. The Bearcats still made it to the BCS stage that season.

While at ND, Kelly’s starting QBs have missed at least one start because of injury in two of his first three seasons.

What will Plan B look like?

Kelly is open to, but not sold on, whether he’ll use some sort situational quarterback packages to complement starter Rees this season.

What he is definite about is that No. 2 quarterback Andrew Hendrix has evolved.

“He's no longer a niche quarterback,” Kelly said. “I mean, he can run our offense. Last year, the year before, we had to run special packages for him.

“We're going to take advantage of some of the things he can do. He can run. He's a physical runner. So we may have some more quarterback runs ... (but) we don't have to turn the playbook inside out to put Andrew Hendrix into the game.”

Scout teamers

Notre Dame’s scout-team quarterbacks the last three seasons have largely been comprised of Gunner Kiel (2012), Everett Golson (2011) and Hendrix (2010).

Kelly announced earlier this month that freshman Zaire won’t be following in that lineage, instead taking his snaps with the regular ND offense.

This week, two players shared scout-team duties — senior Will Cronin and freshman Rashad Kinlaw.

Cronin is a 5-11, 180-pound walk-on from Immaculate Conception High School in Elmhurst, Ill. Kinlaw is a scholarship cornerback who played quarterback extensively as a high school junior in 2011 and the small part of his 2012 senior season that wasn’t wiped out by a broken leg.

On Golson...

As exiled Notre Dame quarterback Everett Golson begins this 2013 season as a bystander, Irish offensive coordinator Chuck Martin said the junior’s university-imposed suspension for academic misconduct could end up being a blessing.

“Time will only tell,” he said. “As I tell him, ‘The story’s not finished. You’re going to write the end of the story. Everybody else can guess at how you’re going to be when you’re 30. You may look back when you’re 30 and say, “Thank God that happened at that point in my life when I can really learn and grow from it.” ’

“That’s how I always approach it. It doesn’t always end happy like that. Sometimes kids keep doing things that they maybe regret, and that’s just who they become. But I’ve seen a lot of kids do something they wish they had back, and it was a defining moment in their life. And they’d say ‘never again’ and ‘I’m going to cherish what I have ’cause all of the sudden I didn’t have it for a little bit of time in my life.’ ”

Golson, ND’s starter for 11 of the 13 games in last year’s 12-1 season, is eligible for reinstatement in January.

Squibs

•The Irish coaches have seen enough positives in cornerback Josh Atkinson’s audition at wide receiver this week that the process will continue.

The return of Lo Wood from an injury and the rise of freshmen Devin Butler and particularly Cole Luke, were among the factors that had pushed Atkinson out of the two-deeps at cornerback.

“He’s going to take time,” Kelly said Thursday night. “The guy can fly. He’s fast as heck. I mean, he can run, (but) it’s going to take us a little time. We want to keep his skills as a DB, but there are a lot of DBs that can play (and) I want to try to find a place to get him on the field.

“We’re trying to get some routes that he can handle. He’s got to catch the ball more consistently. ... I don’t know when that’s going to be, but we’re all in and it’s going to take some time for him.”

•The spring sensation on offense, converted safety C.J. Prosise, has had a relatively quiet August, but Kelly said the sophomore slot receiver still will fill an important role for the Irish.

“C.J.’s been steady for us,” Kelly said. “We’re going to ask him to do some specific things. He’s not going to be that guy, like Robby Toma. Robby was on the field a lot for us. He’s going to do different jobs, and he’s going to do them well for us, but he’s not going to be an A-to-Z slot receiver like Robby was.”

• Wide receiver James Onwualu and Luke are the two freshmen Kelly cited Thursday as having improved the most during August training camp.

“He went from a guy that was a try-hard guy to he’s catching the ball much more consistently.” Kelly said of Onwualu. who made the two-deeps.

“I think Cole Luke, his ability to play corner at this level as a true freshman and nickel — that’s a lot. Now you’re playing multiple coverages. There are a lot of things on his plate. He’s made a lot progress.”

• The Irish held their Thursday practice in Notre Dame Stadium rather than the LaBar Practice Complex.
 

NDWorld247

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“He’s a great teammate, and he’s a kid who does whatever we ask him to do,” Kelly said. “And for a guy who had two days, three days of work (at QB), it’d be nice if we got him in the game and it wasn’t because of injury.”

Reading between the lines, BK is fully expecting his troops to blow Temple out.
 

clashmore_jon

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Reading between the lines, BK is fully expecting his troops to blow Temple out.

i thought that at first too, but that's sorta out of character for BK to say so obviously. I think maybe he means just in general, it would be nice to get the kid on the field.
 
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