'15 PA RB Josh Adams (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[BleedBlueGold]

Koon says stats don't matter. Proceeds to use stats to show why Dex is better.

 

[indianamouse]

 

[koonja]

Koon says stats don't matter. Proceeds to use stats to show why Dex is better.

I offered one stat simply because Cack likes them.

My argument for giving the ball to Dexter/Jones more is 1) Splitting carries keeps people healthy 2) They're just as talented if not more than Adams 3) Josh gets hurt in almost every game and we still force him as soon as he shakes it off 4) When you realize Josh can't get it done, make an adjustment to one of the backs with completely different styles.

Down the list at about #25 would be the YPC stat, to satisfy those that like stats and to show there's no proof of a "drop off" by giving it to Williams.

Troll on BleedBlueGold.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I offered one stat simply because Cack likes them.

My argument for giving the ball to Dexter/Jones more is 1) Splitting carries keeps people healthy 2) They're just as talented if not more than Adams 3) Josh gets hurt in almost every game and we still force him as soon as he shakes it off 4) When you realize Josh can't get it done, make an adjustment to one of the backs with completely different styles.

Down the list at about #25 would be the YPC stat, to satisfy those that like stats and to show there's no proof of a "drop off" by giving it to Williams.

Troll on BleedBlueGold.

Here's a thought: How well are Dex and TJ doing against a stacked box defense and with a QB who can't complete a pass?

I agree with 1) but sometimes you have to ride your Heisman horse and 4) I'll blame that on game plan/play-calling using the wrong personnel with the wrong plays ie. using Josh to get outside against fast defenses. This we can agree on. Everything else, I disagree.

Should I remind you that you started this mess by saying you didn't want Josh back. A Heisman contender for most of the year. A captain. A guy that left 110% on the field every game. And a guy that's about to break the single season rushing record. You don't want that guy back. Why? You think the backups are better. The guys who couldn't beat out Josh the last two years (sans TJ, I know he's a fresh).

 

[Cackalacky]

Blame Canada!

 

[koonja]

Here's a thought: How well are Dex and TJ doing against a stacked box defense and with a QB who can't complete a pass?

I agree with 1) but sometimes you have to ride your Heisman horse and 4) I'll blame that on game plan/play-calling using the wrong personnel with the wrong plays ie. using Josh to get outside against fast defenses. This we can agree on. Everything else, I disagree.

Should I remind you that you started this mess by saying you didn't want Josh back. A Heisman contender for most of the year. A captain. A guy that left 110% on the field every game. And a guy that's about to break the single season rushing record. You don't want that guy back. Why? You think the backups are better. The guys who couldn't beat out Josh the last two years (sans TJ, I know he's a fresh).

We don't know, and that's a problem. Josh couldn't do it, and that was apparent. Perhaps a RB with a completely different style, and no reason to believe they're less talented is worth giving a shot rather than forcing what doesn't work? When have we watched Williams and Jones run, in their very limited sample size, and though "they're not very talented?". Never - because they look awesome every time. Why not see if they can get something going since Josh can't, all while keeping the Golden Boy Josh Adams healthy? Talk about 2 birds...

If BK would split the carries for the numerous advantages it'd have, I'd be all for Josh Adams coming back because he's a good player and deserves ~40% of the carries. But you and I both know he's been tenured with the "Joe Schmidt" treatment, and BK/Long will force him all year next year, and it could cost us games. It very well could have costed us the Georgia game this year, and perhaps Stanford. Having a running game early and often would absolutely change the game situations throughout those 2 messes.

What if we run Williams/Jones early and they start finding the hole and getting ~3-4 yards? What does that do to Wimbush's pass count, what was it, like 39? Josh looked like a Medicare member trying to find the hold against them because there was little to no hole.

What if that insistence in forcing Adams and sitting Dexter cost us a field goal? How does the rest of the season look after that? You may not believe it, but things like this absolutely make a difference in a game of inches, especially when that's a 1 point game.

You guys think this is a hot take, and it's not even that original. Pete Sampson and Prister talked about how this might have costed us a win against Georgia, and same can be said for Stanford.

 

[IrishLion]

I offered one stat simply because Cack likes them.

You offered that state before Cack got involved.

You suck at this.

"Stats don't matter in college football!" - after citing Dex's yardage on various runs, as well as his YPC

"Josh didn't do anything against anybody that was good!" - after defending NC State's d-line for an entire week, talking about how we wouldn't be able to run on them because they were better that UGA's DL.

 

[koonja]

You offered that state before Cack got involved.

You suck at this.

"Stats don't matter in college football!" - after citing Dex's yardage on various runs, as well as his YPC

"Josh didn't do anything against anybody that was good!" - after defending NC State's d-line for an entire week, talking about how we wouldn't be able to run on them because they were better that UGA's DL.

They don't matter. I simply believe Dexter and Jones Jr are better running backs. If Dexter averaged only 7 yards per carry this year as opposed to his 9, I'd feel the same way. I can't stand Adams' running style unless we're playing Syracuse and I just want to see a big run. Big whoop. I want to be set up for success against Miami/Georgia's, not Syracuse.

 

[Irish#1]

Josh came out because of being 'hurt' in at least half of the games. Josh will go down as one of the best backs in school history based on "stats" alone. He's not one of the best backs in history.

And all of these years, teams, analyst and leagues have been using stats to measure a players ability and greatness. Who would have thought they've been wrong the last 100 years?

You have no idea why Dexter didn't play.

Do you realize he averaged almost 9 yards a carry on the season? Do you realize he averaged more than 1 yard more than Adams all year? Do you realize he appeared injured on only one play, the infamous quad run? Do you realize he came in a took a carry the week after against Miami, and got 15 yards, showed no ill effects, and then sat?

You have no idea why he didn't play either. Just because he didn't look hurt when he came off doesn't mean he wasn't hurt. Also, you do realize it is easier to have a higher YPC with fewer carries don't you? But that's also a stat so why do you even bring it up after telling everyone they're meaningless? You have a bad case of "The most popular player on the team is the backup QB" only yours is for RB's.

 

[koonja]

And all of these years, teams, analyst and leagues have been using stats to measure a players ability and greatness. Who would have thought they've been wrong the last 100 years?



You have no idea why he didn't play either. Just because he didn't look hurt when he came off doesn't mean he wasn't hurt. Also, you do realize it is easier to have a higher YPC with fewer carries don't you? But that's also a stat so why do you even bring it up after telling everyone they're meaningless? You have a bad case of "The most popular player on the team is the backup QB" only yours is for RB's.

.

 

[ab2cmiller]

They don't matter. I simply believe Dexter and Jones Jr are better running backs. If Dexter averaged only 7 yards per carry this year as opposed to his 9, I'd feel the same way. I can't stand Adams' running style unless we're playing Syracuse and I just want to see a big run. Big whoop. I want to be set up for success against Miami/Georgia's, not Syracuse.

Koon, based upon what I've already posted, you know I kind of agree with some of your points concerning Josh. But you have to recognize that the way you post sometimes, brings much of this upon yourself.

You could've posted something along the lines that I did, that of course I want Josh back, he's a very good runner and will help us win games, but call out BK for the way that he's used his running backs .... Instead you post an inflammatory statement that you don't want Josh back and that we are basically better off without him. You immediately pissed off most of the board which causes them to dismiss all of your points, even though some are valid.

 

[koonja]

Koon, based upon what I've already posted, you know I kind of agree with some of your points concerning Josh. But you have to recognize that the way you post sometimes, brings much of this upon yourself.

You could've posted something along the lines that I did, that of course I want Josh back, he's a very good runner and will help us win games, but call out BK for the way that he's used his running backs .... Instead you post an inflammatory statement that you don't want Josh back and that we are basically better off without him. You immediately pissed off most of the board which causes them to dismiss all of your points, even though some are valid.

You're right. I'm sorry for upsetting people, especially Cack. I'm moving on from this thread.

 

[fightingirish26]

"Josh didn't do anything against anybody that was good!" - after defending NC State's d-line for an entire week, talking about how we wouldn't be able to run on them because they were better that UGA's DL.

I want to be set up for success against Miami/Georgia's, not Syracuse.

*completely ignores NCST*

 

[Cackalacky]

They don't matter. I simply believe Dexter and Jones Jr are better running backs. If Dexter averaged only 7 yards per carry this year as opposed to his 9, I'd feel the same way. I can't stand Adams' running style unless we're playing Syracuse and I just want to see a big run. Big whoop. I want to be set up for success against Miami/Georgia's, not Syracuse.

 

[Cackalacky]

You're right. I'm sorry for upsetting people, especially Cack. I'm moving on from this thread.

I am absolutely not upset. LOL Your take is hilarious. Haha.

For some reason you are focused in on me. Interesting.

 

[Ndaccountant]

 

[BeatSC]

I say play the back who is having a hot day and rotate accordingly. Give backs like Dex who have a drastically different style a chance to change things up. Hopefully BK and the Chipper will learn that while mixing in more Stepherson jet sweeps!

 

[BeatSC]

BTW, her house in Bel Air is burning down today. I think she just checked in to a Hilton Garden Inn!

 

[NDohio]

Are you guys still working on getting Koon's post count up?

 

[NDRock]

Are you guys still working on getting Koon's post count up?

Koon doesn’t care about stats.

 

[greyhammer90]

If Josh does come back it sure is going to be fun to have Koon piss and moan in every thread every time a run play doesn't go for seven yards. Hope everybody is ready for that because once Koon has made up his mind about something he doesn't shut up about it.

 

[Rocket89]

Adams success rate did fall quite a bit this year from 59.4% as freshman, to 57.5% as a sophomore, to 49.4% this past year.

But, you simply can't ignore his long runs. Nor the fact that he's converted 34 out his 52 carries on 3rd/4th down over 2016-17. Adams has been the best Irish back since the late 90's, IMO. Definitely in the conversation.

Dexter's rate has been 61.9%, 48.7%, and 69.4% which is nice with a small sample size. I'm sure he would've carried the ball more if he was healthier and could fix a few things about his game.

I doubt Dex will break as many long runs as Adams and with a larger sample size he'll probably settle in the 53% to 55% success rate with starter carries. In other words, the run game is very likely to take a step back next year and get bogged down more. Explosive runs are so, so important.

The run game could be similar to this year IF Wimbush takes a step forward from being a very good runner to an elite runner. I haven't seen anything from Jones to think he'll be in the conversation to be a great running back.

I want Adams to come back so bad. I'd love to see him own both the single-season and career rushing records. He deserves it.

 

[ND88]

It’s not even a valid discussion.

You welcome Adams back in a heartbeat.

 

[ND88]

What IS a valid discussion is getting Dex more carries.

I don’t have the real inside truth about why he wasn’t utilized more.

Balance the rushing attack better. Mix it up more efficiently, more productively. It will benefit Dex AND Adams and ND to do so.

That’s all I have with the obvious talk.

 

[Irish#1]

If Josh does come back it sure is going to be fun to have Koon piss and moan in every thread every time a run play doesn't go for seven yards. Hope everybody is ready for that because once Koon has made up his mind about something he doesn't shut up about it.

Greyhammer: Nice Adams bust a 3rd & 6 for a 55yd TD.

Koon: Not impressed. All he needed was 7 yards.

 

[koonja]

Greyhammer: Nice Adams bust a 3rd & 6 for a 55yd TD.

Koon: Not impressed. All he needed was 7 yards.

Nothing tells me you're a "Me-first guy" than running for more than what's necessary.

 

[ulukinatme]

Dex is good, but he definitely wouldn't get the same number of long runs that Adams gets. Dex gets his yards by being elusive. Adams gets his yards after contact, many of which come between the tackles. Dex would certainly get some good yards with the holes Q and McGlinchey were creating, but he's still going to get touched and he doesn't break tackles like Adams does.

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Josh Adams announces that he’ll declare for the NFL Draft.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/949334069166444545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishLax]

Good for him, this was the right decision!

 

[SoIll]

congrats Josh. Tony Jones about go oooooffffff