'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[BobbyMac]

Beau,

Where did you move my post to?

 

[irishandy]

Would Quinn and Clausen really have done much more with their careers? I thought the general consensus has always been that these guys were destined for backup roles.

Yes, I think Clausen and Quinn would've had better careers if they would've sat and learned the system. Both played longer college careers and I think Clausen and DK would've been higher draft picks if they would've stayed 1 more year in college.

 

[BeauBenken]

Beau,

Where did you move my post to?

Did not move them. Deleted them.

If you two would like to hash out whatever it is you're arguing about in PMs, feel free.

 

[NDdomer2]

I always miss all the fun stuff

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

Yes, I suppose that is true. However, it seems like the expectations were quickly dropped after their early respective performances in the NFL. I just wonder how much the nurturing would have actually helped. I watched some pretty terrible games with Clausen (and Quinn also) at the helm. Many people (who know more than I) say that they were given the short end of the stick, but nearly everytime I watched these two, they manifested so very little on the field. Hope Kizer can break the spell.

Both were given so little help around them. If Tom Brady would have been drafted by the Browns and throw into the mix when he was a young QB, he would not have become Tom Brady. To an extent, you're a product of your surroundings/team.

 

[anarin]

Poor kizer.. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy lol

He's totally gonna start this year when he needed time to learn behind someone.

 

[BeatSC]

If he had some struggles at ND this upcoming season Wimbush might have got his chance and done a lot more with it than Malik did and DK would have disappeared. The team will unite and rally around Wimbush. Kizer isn't Brady or Paul Hornung who won the Heaisman with two wins on the worst ND team in 100 years. The team was in a funk last year and would have more than 4 games with Rees or Zaire starting all 12 games. Tell me I'm wrong.

 

[NDgradstudent]

If he had some struggles at ND this upcoming season Wimbush might have got his chance and done a lot more with it than Malik did and DK would have disappeared. The team will unite and rally around Wimbush. Kizer isn't Brady or Paul Hornung who won the Heaisman with two wins on the worst ND team in 100 years. The team was in a funk last year and would have more than 4 games with Rees or Zaire starting all 12 games. Tell me I'm wrong.

This is a joke, right? The defense gave up 40 points a game. That was the main problem.

 

[Cackalacky]

If he had some struggles at ND this upcoming season Wimbush might have got his chance and done a lot more with it than Malik did and DK would have disappeared. The team will unite and rally around Wimbush. Kizer isn't Brady or Paul Hornung who won the Heaisman with two wins on the worst ND team in 100 years. The team was in a funk last year and would have more than 4 games with Rees or Zaire starting all 12 games. Tell me I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

 

[bkess8]

If he had some struggles at ND this upcoming season Wimbush might have got his chance and done a lot more with it than Malik did and DK would have disappeared. The team will unite and rally around Wimbush. Kizer isn't Brady or Paul Hornung who won the Heaisman with two wins on the worst ND team in 100 years. The team was in a funk last year and would have more than 4 games with Rees or Zaire starting all 12 games. Tell me I'm wrong.

Brady won the Heisman?

Seriously though, Kizer was in a bad situation. Its was a difficult season all around for a lot of players. ND was bad all around and there were many things that contributed to the end result of a 4 win season. I don't think you can pin point all of that on Kizer's shoulders. Last years team could of united around Montana and it wouldn't of been much better. A lot of corrections have been made to the staff and the work ethic of Irish football.

I hope the Browns do not throw Kizer to the fire. With the head coach they have and he has proven to be a good developer of QB's I think DK can benefit from some time on the practice field.

 

[IrishLax]

This is a joke, right? The defense gave up 40 points a game. That was the main problem.

It was indeed the main problem, at least for the 1-3 start.

I bet if Kizer had gotten abducted by aliens in the spring before fall of 2016 and the team was all in with Zaire, we were probably a few wins better. I think the division on the team and lack of leadership from some key players they were counting on did make a difference in some of the close losses. That's not Kizer's fault though, per se.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It was indeed the main problem, at least for the 1-3 start.

I bet if Kizer had gotten abducted by aliens in the spring before fall of 2016 and the team was all in with Zaire, we were probably a few wins better. I think the division on the team and lack of leadership from some key players they were counting on did make a difference in some of the close losses. That's not Kizer's fault though, per se.

Which again was engineered and amplified by Brian Kelly. This is one proved in public, from the hour Malik broke his ankle when Kelly fired off the famous, 'This is still Malik's team,' comments.

People forget Tom Brady ran like a 5.6 forty and couldn't lift the bar for the bench press. (only slight hyperbole.)

I soured on DeShone because of some things I heard and saw. Without recounting them, even though a person is responsible for their own actions, behaviors, and words, the kid we are talking about is a 20-year-old. So if he had really competent, coaching and mentoring, a whole lot of that may not have happened. I don't care what anyone says, focusing on a single point, no one attempted to get DeShone to focus on a higher point than he accomplished in 2015. Which is why he ended up not being the first quarterback drafted. He wasn't the best, and he certainly wasn't pushed, or encouraged, or trained to become that. No. He was in free-fall and it didn't matter.

Proof of my 'development or lack of development hypothesis' may be most conclusive with the 'other' quarterback. So, if it wasn't a major coaching issue, why did Malik bolt? And how will he fare this year?

Think about it for a minute. This is half of the stable Kelly said was second to none in America! Remember?

 

[irishandy]

If he had some struggles at ND this upcoming season Wimbush might have got his chance and done a lot more with it than Malik did and DK would have disappeared. The team will unite and rally around Wimbush. Kizer isn't Brady or Paul Hornung who won the Heaisman with two wins on the worst ND team in 100 years. The team was in a funk last year and would have more than 4 games with Rees or Zaire starting all 12 games. Tell me I'm wrong.

If Kizer would've come back for another year, Wimbush would've transferred, and if DK would've come back & "disappeared" the DK Kool-Aid would've gone sour quickly (especially around here).

I do think the team is going to rally around Wimbush and I think this team is going to have it's balance of veterans on offense and guys that will surprise.

I agree with everyone else, our defense was the main reason why we were 4-8 last season.

 

[NDgradstudent]

It was indeed the main problem, at least for the 1-3 start.

I bet if Kizer had gotten abducted by aliens in the spring before fall of 2016 and the team was all in with Zaire, we were probably a few wins better. I think the division on the team and lack of leadership from some key players they were counting on did make a difference in some of the close losses. That's not Kizer's fault though, per se.

Kizer was definitely not great, and if he had made a few more plays in a few more games we'd be 9-3 or whatever. But the only loss I can really "blame" Kizer for was the Stanford loss.

I try to look at what it is reasonable to expect from different units. If you a lose a basketball game by 2 points and you went 10-20 from the FT line, you aren't going to fixate on why you shot 30% rather than 35% from 3. (At least I wouldn't.)

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I tend to look at things a little differently.

Last year we had two players on the prep team that should have been playing; Brandon Wimbush, and Tony Jones, Jr. This did as much to divide the team as anything.

With BVG hanging over the team at the beginning of the year like a shit cloud, Longo nowhere to be found, and Kelly starting the controversy early with his Showtime pronouncement from the year before that it was still Zaire's team, the Irish had just about what it took to totally fuck the team up. (9-3 to 4-8 for sure!)

Little things like other teams being able to predict plays by personnel packages, down and distance, a having so many hands in the offensive game plans did everything else to help last year's team grasp defeat out of the jaws of victory. Oh, yeah, and disrupting what little rhythm there was by capriciously substituting out a quarterback, giving him three plays, then icing him for the starter after he couldn't manufacture an immediate score.

No change in personnel would have mattered, in my opinion.

 

[ulukinatme]

I have suspicions that Kessler will get the start, and the team will likely see more success than they did last year (Given that they can't really go anywhere but up). Kizer may very well find himself in a position like Quinn did, where the team rallies around Kessler like they did Anderson and Kizer never really gets a fair shake.

Brady wasn't going to be a world beater, but there were a number of times in his career where luck wasn't on his side. His time with the Browns very much falls in that category. By the time Brady did get a chance to start, the team was falling apart again and Quinn ended up getting injured. Next thing you know he was traded.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I wish Deshone all the best. Hue Jackson was able to make Andy Dalton look like an MVP candidate his last year in Cincy (2015), but I'm not sure if Kizer will be given enough time to sit back and learn before the team moves on.

 

[ColinKSU]

I have suspicions that Kessler will get the start, and the team will likely see more success than they did last year (Given that they can't really go anywhere but up). Kizer may very well find himself in a position like Quinn did, where the team rallies around Kessler like they did Anderson and Kizer never really gets a fair shake.

Brady wasn't going to be a world beater, but there were a number of times in his career where luck wasn't on his side. His time with the Browns very much falls in that category. By the time Brady did get a chance to start, the team was falling apart again and Quinn ended up getting injured. Next thing you know he was traded.

Agreed on Brady. As someone who grew up in NE Ohio and watched Quinn with the Browns, I still hear from Browns fans who hate ND that Brady was a bust and bad pick. I don't get how anyone can objectively say that when he never got a real shot to prove himself. I don't know what his ceiling was in the NFL, but he never got anywhere near it with Cleveland because they seemingly didn't want him from the day they drafted him.

 

[stlnd01]

I tend to look at things a little differently.

Last year we had two players on the prep team that should have been playing; Brandon Wimbush, and Tony Jones, Jr. This did as much to divide the team as anything.

With BVG hanging over the team at the beginning of the year like a shit cloud, Longo nowhere to be found, and Kelly starting the controversy early with his Showtime pronouncement from the year before that it was still Zaire's team, the Irish had just about what it took to totally fuck the team up. (9-3 to 4-8 for sure!)

Little things like other teams being able to predict plays by personnel packages, down and distance, a having so many hands in the offensive game plans did everything else to help last year's team grasp defeat out of the jaws of victory. Oh, yeah, and disrupting what little rhythm there was by capriciously substituting out a quarterback, giving him three plays, then icing him for the starter after he couldn't manufacture an immediate score.

No change in personnel would have mattered, in my opinion.

Tony Jones Jr? He looks solid but we already had more RBs than carries to go around last year. How did redshirting him divide the team?

I don't claim to know the internal dynamics but Kizer certainly regressed last year. If it's because he wasn't pushed what does that say about our much-loved QB coach?
Regardless, I don't know how many losses to put on DK, but I keep coming back to the fact that we had the ball late and a chance to win in 4 or 5 of our losses. Those failures to produce are not entirely on the QB, of course, but the great ones find ways to win at least some of those games.

 

[phork]

Frankly the defense was more to blame for those Ls than Kizer was. I'll throw a couple Ls his way, max.

 

[dublinirish]

Hue Jackson expects DeShone Kizer to draw Big Ben comparisons: 'I don't know that I've coached a guy with this kind of skillset' | cleveland.com

 

[IrishLion]

Can't believe Hue Jackson would just totally forget about Andy Dalton when making those comments. Dalton is a physical specimen with a laser-rocket arm.

Also, Hue's gonna be really good for Kizer. If Kizer doesn't turn into a quality NFL QB, it's because he simply doesn't have the traits to throw an accurate ball. It won't be from a lack of support, or from the Browns ruining his development.

 

[woolybug25]

Can't believe Hue Jackson would just totally forget about Andy Dalton when making those comments. Dalton is a physical specimen with a laser-rocket arm.

Also, Hue's gonna be really good for Kizer. If Kizer doesn't turn into a quality NFL QB, it's because he simply doesn't have the traits to throw an accurate ball. It won't be from a lack of support, or from the Browns ruining his development.

No offense to Dalton, but I have never seen him as a "physical specimen", but rather as adequately sized. He's 6'2"/220, which is good, but nobody is comparing Dalton's size or physical skillset to Big Ben.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Can't believe Hue Jackson would just totally forget about Andy Dalton when making those comments. Dalton is a physical specimen with a laser-rocket arm.

Also, Hue's gonna be really good for Kizer. If Kizer doesn't turn into a quality NFL QB, it's because he simply doesn't have the traits to throw an accurate ball. It won't be from a lack of support, or from the Browns ruining his development.

I guess you needed italics.

 

[IrishLion]

*whoosh*

[head]

 

[woolybug25]

*whoosh*

[head]

italics bro

 

[IrishLion]

italics bro

I didn't think I would need it for waxing poetic about Andy Dalton haha.

I just assumed it was well known that he's an average-sized guy with an average arm, and nowhere close to Roethlisberger or Kizer.

 

[woolybug25]

I didn't think I would need it for waxing poetic about Andy Dalton haha.

I just assumed it was well known that he's an average-sized guy with an average arm, and nowhere close to Roethlisberger or Kizer.

I think when a Bengals fan makes a comment about liking his pro bowl quarterback, italics are probably necessary if you want others to know you're joking.

 

[IrishLion]

I think when a Bengals fan makes a comment about liking his pro bowl quarterback, italics are probably necessary if you want others to know you're joking.

I am desensitized to the need for sarcasm indicators, because it's commonly understood among most Bengal fans that Dalton is the very baseline of "starter quality," despite his Pro Bowl appearances, and that he plays below that baseline far more than he plays above it.

My tongue-in-cheek came from a place of subtle disrespect, which Dalton assuredly does not deserve, and yet I WANT A PLAYOFF WIN DAMMIT.

 

[woolybug25]

I am desensitized to the need for sarcasm indicators, because it's commonly understood among most Bengal fans that Dalton is the very baseline of "starter quality," despite his Pro Bowl appearances, and that he plays below that baseline far more than he plays above it.

My tongue-in-cheek came from a place of subtle disrespect, which Dalton assuredly does not deserve, and yet I WANT A PLAYOFF WIN DAMMIT.

It's funny how different fanbases look at things differently. To me, as a non-Bengals fan, I don't really understand any Dalton hate from your fanbase. Dude is a pretty damn good QB and close to 2/3's of the league would trade you today. So sarcasm regarding him sucking is gonna go over a lot of people's heads, imo.

Now Cutler on the other hand...