'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[BobbyMac]

So you wouldn't be happy with the QB play if he threw 20/30 312 yds?

Not following you.

 

[IrishLax]

Cam wasn't 250 back then, he's 245 right now. At Kizer's age, he was still skinny, injured and stealing laptops at Florida.

He was listed at 250 at Auburn, he weighed in at 248 at the NFL combine. He's been north of 240 since his freshman year at Florida, being listed at 243. He currently plays at a listed 245.

Kizer weighs 230, and he's intentionally at that weight because he doesn't want to play bigger. So how is Kizer not "10-15 pounds" lighter than Newton's playing weight at any time over the past decade like I said?

He wasn't anywhere near the Cam he is today. At this point in Cam's career, he had some garbage time as a freshmen and was no where near the the talent he would become a couple years later, which isn't actually that close to where he is now. He has grown as a player. The highlights you posted are a two seasons away from where Kizer is today. Cam medical redshirted and then went to cc before Auburn.

I don't even want to get into your straw man... when someone says "Kizer reminds me of Newton" they're talking about the one year Cam Newton actually played college football as a starter. Miller obviously doesn't mean when he was sitting on the bench behind Tebow doing nothing for anyone to even compare to. We're talking about what Miller said.

I mean, I actually personally made the Newton comparison on here months ago, so I'm not saying it's far fetched. I don't think the caveat that he's not as big and is athletically watered down relative to Newton is even debatable.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

It surprised me that Cam had a 66% completion rate at Auburn. I also didn't remember that he ran for almost 1500 yds..

I find it hard to believe Cam's mechanics were that bad being that he ended with a 66% CR.

Not to downplay the achievement but it does help when your QB's are getting single coverage 100% of the time.

 

[woolybug25]

He was listed at 250 at Auburn, he weighed in at 248 at the NFL combine. He's been north of 240 since his freshman year at Florida, being listed at 243. He currently plays at a listed 245.

Kizer weighs 230, and he's intentionally at that weight because he doesn't want to play bigger. So how is Kizer not "10-15 pounds" lighter than Newton's playing weight at any time over the past decade like I said?



I don't even want to get into your straw man... when someone says "Kizer reminds me of Newton" they're talking about the one year Cam Newton actually played college football as a starter. Miller obviously doesn't mean when he was sitting on the bench behind Tebow doing nothing for anyone to even compare to. We're talking about what Miller said.

I mean, I actually personally made the Newton comparison on here months ago, so I'm not saying it's far fetched. I don't think the caveat that he's not as big and is athletically watered down relative to Newton is even debatable.

I understand what your saying, but I'm not sure if you are getting what I'm saying. I get that Kizer is a watered down version of Auburn Cam. Agreed. What I'm trying to say is that the straw man here is that we are comparing a Kizer of a different year than Cam. At this point in Cam's career, he was a watered down version of himself as well.

You can say that "he is obviously comparing him to Auburn Cam", all I'm saying is that the analogy is unfair as Kizer is two seasons away in his development as that player. Of course he's a watered down version of that player. But he isn't a watered down version of a Cam at the same age.

 

[arrowryan]

Depending on how DK reacts and extends plays on broken plays and still gets the ball down field, maybe Big Ben would be a better comparison.

 

[IrishLax]

I understand what your saying, but I'm not sure if you are getting what I'm saying. I get that Kizer is a watered down version of Auburn Cam. Agreed. What I'm trying to say is that the straw man here is that we are comparing a Kizer of a different year than Cam. At this point in Cam's career, he was a watered down version of himself as well.

You can say that "he is obviously comparing him to Auburn Cam", all I'm saying is that the analogy is unfair as Kizer is two seasons away in his development as that player. Of course he's a watered down version of that player. But he isn't a watered down version of a Cam at the same age.

Sure, that makes sense.

Do you think Kizer can physically develop over time to the point of being as athletic as Cam? Or do you think he has a ceiling below what Cam was able to do at a more advanced age?

 

[yankeehater]

No, I'm talking college Cam first year as a starter. He was 6'5" 250 doing stuff like this:
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/m2QNkgR3qdg?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And when Kizer is 27, he still won't athletically be able to make those plays. He could be a better passer than Cam though.

One thing we know for sure is that Cam was getting paid more than Kizer....or at least his Father or Step-Father was.

 

[woolybug25]

Sure, that makes sense.

Do you think Kizer can physically develop over time to the point of being as athletic as Cam? Or do you think he has a ceiling below what Cam was able to do at a more advanced age?

I would be hesitant to say that any player's ceiling is the level of Cam. He's a generational talent. That being said, I don't think a player needs to become that good to have an amazing career. Tom Brady is no where near the talent as Cam, but he's a hof'er. That's an entirely different topic, but that's where my thoughts are heading.

That's what is tough about player comparisons. At the end of the day, he'll be the best Deshone Kizer he can be. That's good enough for me.

 

[BobbyMac]

Not to downplay the achievement but it does help when your QB's are getting single coverage 100% of the time.

It's REALLY amazing he ran for almost 1500 with 9 guys dedicated to stopping him and the run. Plus, can you imagine how having a Will Fuller would have impacted his stats? I'm sure he had some good receivers but I remember hearing not one caught a pass in the NFL. That offense was him, Michael Dyer and Ontario ________. TLTG

 

[Bugzly21]

Not following you.

You were acting like a 66% CR was bad. 20 for 30 is 66%

edit: nevermind. bad early morning reading comprehension

 

[BobbyMac]

Depending on how DK reacts and extends plays on broken plays and still gets the ball down field, maybe Big Ben would be a better comparison.

Egggzactly. When I see Kizer stand tall in the pocket and shuffle, that's exactly what I see, Big Ben from the real Miami!

 

[BobbyMac]

You were acting like a 66% CR was bad. 20 for 30 is 66%

edit: nevermind. bad early morning reading comprehension

No problem... what actually threw me was the 312 yds. What was that in reference to?

 

[SoIll]

side note, can you imagine if Cam got to play more then 1 year? Arguably most dominate QB in college football history.

 

[woolybug25]

side note, can you imagine if Cam got to play more then 1 year? Arguably most dominate QB in college football history.

What would have been crazy is if he wouldn't have got injured/arrested and stayed at UF for multiple years. I bet Meyer would have stayed and he would have went from Tebow to Cam. Would have been an incredible almost decade of football. We would be saying "Saban who?"

 

[IrishBroker]

It surprised me that Cam had a 66% completion rate at Auburn. I also didn't remember that he ran for almost 1500 yds..

I find it hard to believe Cam's mechanics were that bad being that he ended with a 66% CR.

And now he's not even a 60% passer.

College completion % are inflated as obviously the coverages aren't as tight and you're not going against NFL corners in many instances.

 

[IrishBroker]

side note, can you imagine if Cam got to play more then 1 year? Arguably most dominate QB in college football history.

Dude was incredible.

He and Johnny Football are two of the most exciting college QB's of all time. Cam is so physically dominate, and JF could pull rabbits outta his hat and make a play.

 

[GowerND11]

No, I'm talking college Cam first year as a starter. He was 6'5" 250 doing stuff like this:
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/m2QNkgR3qdg?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And when Kizer is 27, he still won't athletically be able to make those plays. He could be a better passer than Cam though.

All this video does is give Wiz ammo for his fullback argument. Number 43 made some nice catches.

Plus, sick cowboy collar bro.

 

[Irish#1]

So my sample of pretty much every platoon QB scenario of the last 20 years isn't a big enough sample, but the only one we can come up with is one from the 60's and in the NFL? C'mon man...

Feel free not to like it, but if a one off scenario in an entirely different league and era is the only thing we can come up with to dispute, then that argument is clearly skating on thin ice.

Again, if my sample is too small and only 2-3% of the platoon systems in college football (i.e. Two good QB's, not two playing because of lack of talent or injury), then there should be dozens of examples of it not working. But here we are... Talking about two QB's that played in the NFL decades before the majority of the board were born.

As I've mentioned before, I don't have the time or inclination to do the research. You had asked for an example and being a fan of the Cowboys before Jerry Jones, I just remember the Meredith and Reeves situation. Feel free to exclude it from your hypothesis.

 

[ND NYC]

are we seriously comparing Kizer to Cam?
seriously?

imagine when Koon gets his hands on this thread...could turn into thread of the year with all the back and forth

 

[NDdomer2]

no wonder Kelly cant pick between the two qbs. You have Cam 2.0 vs Black Tebow. how could any coach decide.

 

[IrishLion]

are we seriously comparing Kizer to Cam?
seriously?

imagine when Koon gets his hands on this thread...could turn into thread of the year with all the back and forth

An NFL scouting/draft dude Tweeted that Kizer reminds him of Cam.

Probably just similar playing styles in terms of big-bodied QB's that move well.

It was taken far beyond that simple statement haha.

 

[SoIll]

What would have been crazy is if he wouldn't have got injured/arrested and stayed at UF for multiple years. I bet Meyer would have stayed and he would have went from Tebow to Cam. Would have been an incredible almost decade of football. We would be saying "Saban who?"

hell of a point. Never thought about that.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Jameis Winston is easily the better comparison on the field.

 

[Bugzly21]

No problem... what actually threw me was the 312 yds. What was that in reference to?

Just threw out a yardage that seemed would go with the 20 for 30

 

[NDohio]

Jameis Winston is easily the better comparison on the field.

Jameis and Roethlisberger are extremely similar players. DK has their pocket presence and ability to escape at the last second in a similar fashion to those two. I believe DK is a much better athlete/runner than either of the them though.

 

[kmoose]

side note, can you imagine if Cam got to play more then 1 year? Arguably most dominate QB in college football history.

Dude was incredible.

He and Johnny Football are two of the most exciting college QB's of all time. Cam is so physically dominate, and JF could pull rabbits outta his hat and make a play.

Because even our good friend, dshans, needs a day off now and then............

Dominate is a verb

Dominant is an adjective.

Carry on.............

 

[NorthDakota]

Jameis and Roethlisberger are extremely similar players. DK has their pocket presence and ability to escape at the last second in a similar fashion to those two. I believe DK is a much better athlete/runner than either of the them though.

Roethlisberger in his youth was pretty athletic. I think he ran pretty well once upon a time.

 

[ulukinatme]

I'm seeing comparisons to Winston, Big Ben, Cam. Why do good QBs have to all be d-bags? You can throw Tom Brady into that d-bag list.

 

[NDohio]

Roethlisberger in his youth was pretty athletic. I think he ran pretty well once upon a time.

OH yeah, I agree. I just think DK is that much better of an athlete. Ben ran quite a bit at Miami.

 

[NorthDakota]

I'm seeing comparisons to Winston, Big Ben, Cam. Why do good QBs have to all be d-bags? You can throw Tom Brady into that d-bag list.

Take that back....Big Ben is a saint.......now that he settled down and got married.