The way too early 2012 starting lineup defense

[Me2SouthBend]

Here is the other side of the ball. Love to see Councell starting and hope Hardy gets healthy and gets into starting rotation at corner. Let's discuss.

The way too early 2012 starting lineup: Defense | Inside the Irish

 

[NDPhilly]

I also think Josh eventually beats out Lo. He's taller and faster, just needs experience. IDK if Councell will beat out Spond but I'd love to see it. His length and athleticism is something we need.

 

[stlnd01]

Here is the other side of the ball. Love to see Councell starting and hope Hardy gets healthy and gets into starting rotation at corner. Let's discuss.

The way too early 2012 starting lineup: Defense | Inside the Irish

Looks about right. Wish/hope there was a way to get Nix and Schwenke, and Shembo and Ishaq, on the field at the same time. But I'm sure we'll see lots of all four of them.

Also, Kendall Moore needs to find a way onto the field. And, based on what I've read and what little I saw Saturday, I think Sheldon Day is going to be a ballplayer - like Tuitt, not flashy, but really solid in the trenches.

Also, this:
"Privately, the coaching staff thinks they might have a first round talent," in Bennett Jackson. Really? Let's hope so.

 

[STLDomer]

I realize there is more than 11, Atkinson will pass Wood eventually

DE: KLM Day Hounchell
DE: Tuitt Day Jones
NT: Nix Shwenke Springmann
DOG: Councell Spond
CAT: Shembo Williams Utopo
WILL: Fox Calabrese Moore
MIKE: Te'o Grace Moore
CB: Jackson Atkinson
CB: Wood Brown
NICKEL: Collinsworth McDaniel
FS: Motta Collinsworth Hardy
SS: Slaughter Collinsworth McCarthy

 

[Riddickulous]

Looks about right. Wish/hope there was a way to get Nix and Schwenke, and Shembo and Ishaq, on the field at the same time. But I'm sure we'll see lots of all four of them.

Also, Kendall Moore needs to find a way onto the field. And, based on what I've read and what little I saw Saturday, I think Sheldon Day is going to be a ballplayer - like Tuitt, not flashy, but really solid in the trenches.

Also, this:
"Privately, the coaching staff thinks they might have a first round talent," in Bennett Jackson. Really? Let's hope so.

Oh God.

I hope Shembo improves, because he didn't impress me much last year.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I hope Shembo improves, because he didn't impress me much last year.

Shembo, or Jackson? And what does Shembo have to do with Jackson?

 

[Old Man Mike]

KLM Nix Tuitt
[Hounshell] [Schwenke] [Day]

Shembo Fox Te'o Councell
[Williams] [Calabreese] [Grace] [Spond]

Jackson Wood
[Brown] [Atkinson]

Motta Slaughter
[Collingsworth] [Farley]

I'm not claiming that this is my favorite array, just my guess as to how it will go. I'd probably like to see Hardy or Shumate or Badger somewhere in the safeties mix, and have Grace push Fox for Will, and maybe even Baratti push Spond for Dog. If we play four true DLs much, then insert Jarron Jones or put Shembo's hand down and see what Rabasa has got. The array at the top still cannot cover the space in the mid-range areas, so I'd drop Fox or Calabreese out and use our Slaughter package on the obvious passing downs and also against the options. Councell allows us to keep Dog on the field... so, probably, would people like Baratti and maybe Spond can do it --- I'm still evaluating there. Hopefully.

 

[Riddickulous]

Shembo, or Jackson? And what does Shembo have to do with Jackson?

Shembo was just a thought I added onto the end of my post. Has nothing to do with Jackson.

 

[NDdomer2]

KLM Nix Tuitt
[Hounshell] [Schwenke] [Day]

Shembo Fox Te'o Councell
[Williams] [Calabreese] [Grace] [Spond]

Jackson Wood
[Brown] [Atkinson]

Motta Slaughter
[Collingsworth] [Farley]

I'm not claiming that this is my favorite array, just my guess as to how it will go. I'd probably like to see Hardy or Shumate or Badger somewhere in the safeties mix, and have Grace push Fox for Will, and maybe even Baratti push Spond for Dog. If we play four true DLs much, then insert Jarron Jones or put Shembo's hand down and see what Rabasa has got. The array at the top still cannot cover the space in the mid-range areas, so I'd drop Fox or Calabreese out and use our Slaughter package on the obvious passing downs and also against the options. Councell allows us to keep Dog on the field... so, probably, would people like Baratti and maybe Spond can do it --- I'm still evaluating there. Hopefully.

OMM, do you see Turner ending up at OLB? He seems to be a very similar mold as Marcus Ball who we told would be Dog. We are going to be very deep at safety the next few years.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I wish Moore could break through at WILL.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I know a lot has been said about us being deep at DL. But what happens if KLM or Tuitt gets hurt? I don't think Day or Hounshell can play that many reps at this point. I also don't think Jarron or Romeo will be ready to contribute either.

We aren't as deep as we are lead to believe.

 

[Emcee77]

I know a lot has been said about us being deep at DL. But what happens if KLM or Tuitt gets hurt? I don't think Day or Hounshell can play that many reps at this point. I also don't think Jarron or Romeo will be ready to contribute either.

We aren't as deep as we are lead to believe.

Probably true. I'm excited to see what kind of contribution Springmann can make, once he gets healthy. And on passing downs Shembo and Ishaq are in the mix.

 

[STLDomer]

Move Troy Niklas there

 

[Whiskeyjack]

OMM, do you see Turner ending up at OLB? He seems to be a very similar mold as Marcus Ball who we told would be Dog. We are going to be very deep at safety the next few years.

The staff has told Baratti they plan to use him in a hybrid OLB/S role (the "Star LB") like Slaughter has played.

I could be wrong, but I think the staff has realized that finding LBs with the coverage skills to excel at DOLB is very difficult, so they're purposefully recruiting big Safeties with that hybrid role in mind. Thus, while our depth chart may show 8+ scholarship Safeties for only two positions, there's actually a third position in the mix as well.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us carry ~10 "Safeties" going forward.

 

[irishog77]

Just some thoughts/questions going through my mind:

-How frequently can/will Shembo and Williams get on the field at the same time? And if they do, is there any chance they both line up with their hands on the ground, thus making them DE's? I'm with GITF in believing the DL isn't as deep as others believe.

-In any Star/Nickel/___ packages, I wonder if the Dog doesn't come off the field, but rather, the Will comes off the field. If Spond or Councell are able to be the players we've been hoping ND can have at that position for awhile, perhaps their coverage ability trumps whatever Fox or Calabrese have to offer on some downs. I wonder how potent a line up of whichever 3 DL, Williams or Shembo down, Williams or Shembo as a Cat, Teo, Spond/Councell as the other LB, and a nickel package would be? I will say losing a guy like Niklas hurts a little bit in schemes like this-- he could put his hand in the dirt, blitz as an up LB, or drop into coverage as a LB.

-Ill be totally honest and admit that if Teo comes off the field on some passing downs, I won't be heartbroken. Of course, that's assuming the play of the other LB's improves this year, and not remain the status quo from last year.

-I think last year's secondary takes a bit of a bad wrap for the passing defense last year. By no means do I think the secondary was A-1 material, but I think they were overall pretty good. The LB's inabilities in coverage were a bigger factor in opposing teams success passing the ball, rather than the secondary's inability to cover (4th quarter of Michigan excluded).

Anyway, feel free to comment, agree, disagree, or simply, "discuss."

 

[NDdomer2]

Just some thoughts/questions going through my mind:

-How frequently can/will Shembo and Williams get on the field at the same time? And if they do, is there any chance they both line up with their hands on the ground, thus making them DE's? I'm with GITF in believing the DL isn't as deep as others believe.

-In any Star/Nickel/___ packages, I wonder if the Dog doesn't come off the field, but rather, the Will comes off the field. If Spond or Councell are able to be the players we've been hoping ND can have at that position for awhile, perhaps their coverage ability trumps whatever Fox or Calabrese have to offer on some downs. I wonder how potent a line up of whichever 3 DL, Williams or Shembo down, Williams or Shembo as a Cat, Teo, Spond/Councell as the other LB, and a nickel package would be? I will say losing a guy like Niklas hurts a little bit in schemes like this-- he could put his hand in the dirt, blitz as an up LB, or drop into coverage as a LB.

-Ill be totally honest and admit that if Teo comes off the field on some passing downs, I won't be heartbroken. Of course, that's assuming the play of the other LB's improves this year, and not remain the status quo from last year.

-I think last year's secondary takes a bit of a bad wrap for the passing defense last year. By no means do I think the secondary was A-1 material, but I think they were overall pretty good. The LB's inabilities in coverage were a bigger factor in opposing teams success passing the ball, rather than the secondary's inability to cover (4th quarter of Michigan excluded).

Anyway, feel free to comment, agree, disagree, or simply, "discuss."

I felt like our LB's couldn't cover dog **** watching USC bootleg all day.

 

[Old Man Mike]

NDdomer: what Whiskey said.

Ever since I have been posting on IE I have been irritating everyone with my opinion that we MUST go with speed at two linebacker positions at the minimum. [for us, Dog and Will]. The old feet-in-concrete-but-muscles-of-giant-mass concept of defense can NEVER get you a national championship anymore.

What I believe that no old-school football watcher realizes is that a smaller shiftier guy with great instincts can beat the lineman to the spot and not take him on flat-to-splatter [ no matter who you are, if you cannot evade it gets embarrassing --- remember that block on Manti {UofM or MSU near the end of the game two seasons ago} where even he was embarrassingly ridden for about 15 yards by a lineman]. Slaughter should have proved to everyone that a guy of his stature and instincts can play close to the line of scrimmage.

The other thing that old school stick-in-the-muds won't realize is: if you are loaded with speed everywhere, and if one of your guys gets bashed since he's so "little", everyone else that you have swarms in there the great majority of the time and you still limit the play. Defense does not have to win every down. They just need to string together three or four good plays in a row, and also occasionally so disrupt things that they take the ball away. Speed. Speed. Speed. And quick let-the-dogs-out aggression. That's why I HOPE that we'll be looking at more Baratti-sized or even smaller OLB types. And I hope NOT to hear "Yeh when he just puts on thirty more pounds he'll be there". No, he won't. That extra speed-sapping mass will probably be the exact thing which stops him from "being there".

I can't address John Turner. If he has the instincts and ability to get to the important gap in the offense, then sure... why not?

p.s. Manti just dropped ten pounds... oh Lord save us; he'll be weak!!!

 

[ChiRish]

I understand the concern with depth on the DL when injuries occur, and it's justified. But I also think that it's the primary reason the staff recruits versatile linemen. God forbid one of the DE's gets hurt, they can just as easily slide Kona outside and still get production.

I'm concerned about the relative inexperience of Hounshell and Springmann. I'm just going to have to trust the staff on that one. I am excited, though, to see what Jarron Jones brings, and hope that he gets PT.

I'm pumped for Sheldon Day though. From what I've seen he's had a fantastic spring, and he's a much more elite player than some think. Look at his offer sheet. The kid just brings it. And he's yet another player that can flex in or out on the line. As a result, I know losing AL stings bad, because it most certainly does. But I do think the unit can still be very productive. Remember, we need to factor in the improvement that players like Tuitt will bring. He could be beast.

At LB, I've been all about Councell since he signed. His athletic ability is going to be a perfect fit in the DOG role. Really, the entire LB position is loaded with tremendous athletes.

Building on what OMM said, the combination of speed, size, and athleticism at the position will be a huge component of what we do this season. For all we know, Ishaq could be primed to make that leap. Who knows? What we do know is that the potential is there for it to be a special unit, and they're all led by a true ND warrior on the field in Te'o.

I'm excited for the upcoming season just to see how the defense plays. I think playing Navy first is an excellent way to start the season; their style of offense will be a great way to test the flexibility, versatility, and ability of a lot of the newer faces in the front 7.

 

[ChiRish]

Just look at this talent at LB, merely by quickly glancing at Rivals. And their size. I realize stars aren't everything, but these are talented kids.

- Manti Te'o, 5 Star - 6'2, 255
- Ishaq Williams, 5 Star - 6'5, 255
- Prince Shembo, 4 Star - 6'2, 250
- Dan Fox, 4 Star - 6'3, 240
- Ben Councell, 4 Star - 6'5, 240
- Danny Spond, 4 Star - 6'2, 250
- Kendall Moore, 4 Star - 6'1, 240
- Carlo Calabrese, 3 Star - 6'1, 245
- Jarrett Grace, 3 Star - 6'3, 240
- Anthony Rabasa, 3 Star - 6'3, 240
- Romeo Okwara, 3 Star - 6'5, 240


Even those "lower rated" guys have shown already since they've been here, at least with Grace and Rabasa, that they're performing above (at least in practice) what their evaluations held. Grace especially, earning the "werewolf" moniker. And Okwara? He's so young, he could be even bigger as he develops here.

My point with all this is that in an era where big, fast, versatile, athletic linebackers are regarded higher than ever, we have a lion's share of them already on the roster. It's definitely an area of strength for the team.

 

[ChiRish]

One more thought too, sorry for the multiple posts in a row haha.

As for the secondary, I really think that McDaniel is going to see serious PT. This staff wants reliability above all else. The staff knows he may not have the straight line speed to keep up with some players, but something tells me he's going to make a couple clutch plays for us this year in the secondary.

And about the other corners? This is where we'll miss the coverage skills of Tee. The staff loves Jackson, sure, but none of these guys is proven. They all need to have a big summer and preseason.

At safety, there seem to be a plethora of athletes at the position, so perhaps that can help with some coverage over the top. I would be shocked if the staff doesn't get Shumate on the field at some point somewhere, but there's a lot of talent ahead of him as well.

I think here as well we'll see the hidden benefit of hiring a coach like Elliot. His reputation as a great defensive coach precedes him, and I think that him and Cooks coaching together (based on their past together) will do wonders for the secondary as a whole. I still think it will have it's growing pains this season. It has to be the biggest wildcard on the team. Let's hope the kids put in the work this summer.

 

[charlyp123]

Here is the other side of the ball. Love to see Councell starting and hope Hardy gets healthy and gets into starting rotation at corner. Let's discuss.

The way too early 2012 starting lineup: Defense | Inside the Irish

I know we need to move on but just stop and think of what the defense almost looked like:

D-Line: Lynch (future All-American) Nix (future All-American) Tuitt (future All-American) backed up by Kap, Kona, and Day. All solid to good college starters.

LB: Ishaq (all the talent in the world)/Shembo (good,can be great), Teo (All-American) Carlo/Fox (solid), Councell (TBD)

CB: Tee (kid was a stud, shut down everyone in the HS all star games), Bennett Jackons (everyone is raving about him) w/ Lo Wood and Atkinson backing them up.

SAFETY: Zeke (solid college starter, two years into system) Slaughter (solid, could be great) w/ the young guys backing them up. Shumate is going to be a stud. Also could have had the kid from NJ who crashed and burned because of Twitter. I think they still should have taken the kid but that's just me.

Now wow, look at that D. That is a defense that could win you a championship. Still solid but not what it could have been. Still pumped and hoping for the best! Go Irish!!!

 

[Grimm]

How good can ND be against the run this year? Last year's average per game was 138.9 yards (47th). The schedule is tougher this year and we lost some good players. But it seems like d-line and LBs should be monsters against the run, absent injuries. And on offense, we should not only be turning over the ball less but also running more and extending drives with some legs at qb. So the defense should be spending less time of on the field. Alabama averaged low 70s. Can our team get into the low 100s? Keep thinking if we can shut down the run and not turnover, 9-10 wins is possible despite a young qb and thin secondary.

Gave up 196 yards last year to navy. I think they can do considerably better this year. only 5 days until we find out!

 

[arrowryan]

How good can ND be against the run this year? Last year's average per game was 138.9 yards (47th). The schedule is tougher this year and we lost some good players. But it seems like d-line and LBs should be monsters against the run, absent injuries. And on offense, we should not only be turning over the ball less but also running more and extending drives with some legs at qb. So the defense should be spending less time of on the field. Alabama averaged low 70s. Can our team get into the low 100s? Keep thinking if we can shut down the run and not turnover, 9-10 wins is possible despite a young qb and thin secondary.

Gave up 196 yards last year to navy. I think they can do considerably better this year. only 5 days until we find out!

Who did we lose on the front 7 that is going to hurt us? This years front 7 will be much stronger than last years.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

How good can ND be against the run this year? Last year's average per game was 138.9 yards (47th). The schedule is tougher this year and we lost some good players. But it seems like d-line and LBs should be monsters against the run, absent injuries. And on offense, we should not only be turning over the ball less but also running more and extending drives with some legs at qb. So the defense should be spending less time of on the field. Alabama averaged low 70s. Can our team get into the low 100s? Keep thinking if we can shut down the run and not turnover, 9-10 wins is possible despite a young qb and thin secondary.

Gave up 196 yards last year to navy. I think they can do considerably better this year. only 5 days until we find out!

Those stats aren't opponent adjusted. ND finished 4th nationally against the run in 2011. I expect they'll be better this year.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Most teams don't play two service acadamies, so those stats are skewed. Plus, your opponent is bound to get some ground yards once you've dropped 56 on them.

 

[Grimm]

Who did we lose on the front 7 that is going to hurt us? This years front 7 will be much stronger than last years.

Agree, was really thinking about the guys in the back like Harrison Smith and Blanton. On the front Ethan Johnson was pretty good, but banged up last year. Lynch probably was a net negative on the run.

 

[Patulski]

I felt like our LB's couldn't cover dog **** watching USC bootleg all day.

We also could have tackled Barkley twice on critical play bootlegs, but our OLB lacked discipline and went for the ball fake allowing Barkley to make the first down. This was USC's first drive, which ended with a TD.

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[IrishLax]

We also could have tackled Barkley twice on critical play bootlegs, but our OLB lacked discipline and went for the ball fake allowing Barkley to make the first down. This was USC's first drive, which ended with a TD.

<! -- Google Video HTML Code -- ><iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NqyDAgNBMB4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><! -- End of Google Video HTML Code -->

hahahahaha that film session must've been incredibly painful...............

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

For some reason that play bothers me more than any I can think of.. Whenever I hear anything USC or Barkley it immediately starts looping in my mind..

 

[Bubba]

Thought this would fit in here. But, it's not too early anymore...

http://notredame.rivals.com/cdepthtext.asp