'12 IN QB Gunner Kiel (Cincinnati Transfer)

[Bogtrotter07]

Most of the writers on BR appear to be under the age of 25 from their pictures, so not really a wealth of experience behind their writing.

I understand. Good point. Wealth? I'll just settle for solvency.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Most of the writers on BR appear to be under the age of 25 from their pictures, so not really a wealth of experience behind their writing.

As a 22-year old, I'm offended!!

 

[johnnykillz]

I think you guys forget sometimes: everyone has to start somewhere. I'd be willing to bet some of those 22-year-old writers have the decency to at least work to achieve proper grammar and spelling standards.

 

[NDBoiler]

As a 22-year old, I'm offended!!

Duh, thats what I was going for Buster

My apologies then...i guess its moreso of a condemnation of the internet in that any yaywho (myself included) can write a blog or runa website, yet may lack any serious professional credentials. If you would compare it to print media for example (and some are looslety profressional there , too), I am willing to bet you would be unlikely to find an enitre publication of twentysomethings running the show.

 

[NDBoiler]

I think you guys forget sometimes: everyone has to start somewhere. I'd be willing to bet some of those 22-year-old writers have the decency to at least work to achieve proper grammar and spelling standards.

Man I hope so ...please see my posted reply to Buster too.

 

[Black Irish]

I know it's a BR article, but the really solid point the writer raises is how does Kelly pitch a 5 star QB to come to his program and red shirt for a year? You got to figure that Kelly told Kiel that he'd have a solid crack at the starting job (I'm not saying Kelly did not offer this, and likely is giving Gunnar a real look as a starter/back-up). The writer is right; you can't count Gunnar out because Kelly had to promise him a shot at the job in order to land him at ND. Kiel starting is a long shot, but the possibility is there.

 

[Downinthebend]

How do I embed video? Is this right?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/21OD9lnCaGQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Anyways heres Kiel's "whole" second half

What I would like to see, is Kiel battle for the spot but redshirt. When he is serving his redshirt year, I hope he doesn't run the scout offense but instead learns the real offense. I can't comprehend why you would waste a year without a potentially good qb running your offense (cough hendrix/golson)

 

[BeauBenken]

If you guys seriously think that just because you run the scout offense, you don't learn and practice the actual playbook, you're asinine.

 

[Downinthebend]

What I know is that the rumor is that Golson doesn't know the offense all that well, and the same with Hendrix. While Reese was able to learn the offense and pick up the audibles and whatnot in roughly the same amount of time.

 

[Buster Bluth]

What I know is that the rumor is that Golson doesn't know the offense all that well, and the same with Hendrix. While Reese was able to learn the offense and pick up the audibles and whatnot in roughly the same amount of time.

That's not really a rumor; that's just the situation. Rees ran the spread and had a semester's edge on Hendrix to learn the playbook. That was the difference. Golson ran the scout team during the season, so didn't get a good amount of time to master the idiosyncrasies of the Notre Dame offense. At the very minimum, Rees is further along in the learning curve (which never really ends for 95% of players). It's well known that Golson needs the reps and bookwork to master the "science" of being a quarterback.

 

[anarin]

What I know is that the rumor is that Golson doesn't know the offense all that well, and the same with Hendrix. While Reese was able to learn the offense and pick up the audibles and whatnot in roughly the same amount of time.

Not much of a rumor.

And REES played halfway through his freshman year no?

If Hendrix doesn't know the playbook, it wouldn't be the same reason as Golson not knowing it, so that comparison is dead in the water.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If Hendrix doesn't know the playbook, it wouldn't be the same reason as Golson not knowing it, so that comparison is dead in the water.

Well I don't think it's that Hendrix or Golson "doesn't know the playbook" per se.

If how good you are and how much you know were the only factors... If, on a scale 1-10, you graded the QB's in terms of ability (Rees 5, Hendrix 7, Golson 8.5) but then you looked at what percentage of the playbook they have mastered (i.e. can call that play in a game without it looking horrible) (e.g. Rees 80%, Hendrix 55%, and Golson 40%)....then in theory your worth is reversed and it's Rees = 4.0, Hendrix = 3.85, and Golson = 3.4.

I've boiled it down to the most elementary of terms of course, but that's basically what's going on, no? Kiel's ability may be a 9/10, but he's knowledge is probably around 25%, and that isn't starter worthy quite yet.



(It really shows how awesome Andrew Luck is, because he's a 9.999 player ability wise, and had .9999 of the playbook down. He's a 9.98/10 quarterback and it showed in his historic red zone stats.) Of course, my figures are entirely made up.

 

[Old Man Mike]

All three of those guys "know the playbook" [Rees. Hendrix, Golson], and Kiel will get the Xs and Os down quickly. What everybody is not equal on are the next higher levels of understanding. Examples: when facing defense "Z", what are the alternative things that the wideout is seeing, and what alternate decision is he likely to [and better] employ? I.E. The opposing defenses will demand that there are "reads" in many/most passing plays, which will be keyed by what BOTH the receiver and the quarterback think they see. Many times a "bad pass" is just as much the receiver's fault as the QBs. [And all of this is over and above knowing what the actual "physical behaviors" of different receivers are --- translation: some guys run sharper cuts than others; some guys protect with their bodies better than others; some guys out-battle high better than others]. All this comprises "knowing the playbook" [and the whole offense] at a higher level of understanding than just the high school memorization of Xs and Os and where everyone is hopefully going to run.

All of these guys are football intelligent and can read. They need time walking up to the line of scrimmage and seeing that Diaco has simulated some surprise for them, then calling or changing a play, making the in-play read, having Kelly go mildly bonkers on how stupid that was, and then have him try to teach that mistake out of them. It is at this stage that Coach will do his job, but the QB might not "get it" because this is not just an "intellectual" problem. This is where the QBs football instincts must manifest. There are a HUGE number of variations in the contingencies which happen to called plays after the snap. No "playbook" is big enough to cover all the "if this, then that's", nor could anyone memorize them, and memorizing an encyclopedia wouldn't translate into good rapid play anyway. The QBs must not only be able to see it intellectually, but immediately "feel it and act" without slowing down to analyze it. The intellect [it grieves me to admit as an old college prof] is right out the window once the ball is snapped.

This is where Kelly will do all he can, but whether the light goes on for any of these guys will not be his fault. This sort of "light going on" is what Tommy Rees almost naturally brought to the program. His fatal flaw was that he could not effectively see certain disguised coverages off-the-line-of-sight to the receiver, plus his well-discussed ad nauseum physical limitations. If any of the other three can get their light turned on for these intellectual pre-snap reads [Kelly can help a lot teaching that] and these instinctive non-analytical immediate post-snap actions [that's the player's responsibility], then we will have one heckuva quarterback, and our troubles will largely be over. Anyone who thinks that any teacher can get inside the heads of any "students" and turn THAT sort of light on, really doesn't understand the teaching profession. I could keep "knocking on the door", but the sleeper had to turn on the light himself.

 

[Black Irish]

Well said, OMM. Your post makes me think of poker; you can read all the books on strategy you want and learn all the stats & math but it's your ability to put it all together at the felt that makes a great player. There are so many variables that can not be taught, it's the "light going on" sooner rather than later that makes the difference.

 

[dublinirish]

Kiel getting the 2nd half reps is not a big deal, usually these are the reps Walk-On QB's get surely!

 

[Grahambo]

To piggyback off of OMM for just a little bit, the difference between Eli Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning and the rest of the NFL is the ability to read defensive coverages PRE-snap. The ability to walk up to the line, study the defense for 8-12 seconds, then make quick adjustments to counter what the defense has in store is invaluable skill. If you watch those QB's mentioned above and see how many times they change or adjust while at the line, it's truly incredible to watch. It truly is like watching an artist.

Physical ability will only get you so far as we saw with Dayne Crist, mentally you have to be sharp. (I digress on Crist because I still think BK made the wrong choice in pulling Crist)

 

[Irish YJ]

Why would TR bolt? He must know there's no future in the NFL for him. Even if he ends up last on the depth chart, he'll likely finish his degree and call it a good deal.

Hey Whiskey, just thinking he won't be satified riding the pines. No baller does. I know if I was faced with the choice, I'd tried to go to a place like Vandy, Duke, or UCon... Still a good education, but now I'm the starting guy with a chance to make a difference.

 

[woolybug25]

Hey Whiskey, just thinking he won't be satified riding the pines. No baller does. I know if I was faced with the choice, I'd tried to go to a place like Vandy, Duke, or UCon... Still a good education, but now I'm the starting guy with a chance to make a difference.

I agree with both you and Whiskey. I think Tommy would stay until he graduated (remember, he early enrolled) and then use his 5th year playing somewhere else.

 

[Emcee77]

If you guys seriously think that just because you run the scout offense, you don't learn and practice the actual playbook, you're asinine.

True, and it's an oversimplification to say that Golson just ran the scout team last year. At least until the Air Force game he was getting practice reps with ND's offense along with Hendrix, right? I seem to remember Kelly saying that he was making an effort to work both Golson and Hendrix in.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Old Man Mike's post is brilliant.

Everyone forgot that Kelly said that Rees didn't know the playbook particularly well. But what he could do better than anyone else is protect himself; call coverages. And that was the difference . . .

Most of these guys are in the same kind of learning curve as Ishaq Williams, (loose analogy). They play, but not as fast or as well. Seems to me, a lot of problems any quarterback in has had was working with all of the moving parts. Hendrix ran an option offense in highschool. Gimme a break! give it some time.

 

[dshans]

As a 22-year old, I'm offended!!

As a 59 year old (Hell, let's call it as it is – I'll be an official 60 year old "old fart" in two months) and I, too, am insulted! I've watched a lot of football in my years and played a bit on school yards, sand lots and in backyards, but I'm not a nuts-and-bolts analyst by any means.

I've my observations and opinions and can string together words, sentences and paragraphs. Most of those will be grammatically correct. Some will be cogent. A few analyses might even be accurate and dispositive.

This is not to say that I automatically respect or disregard everything put out by Bleacher Report. I will, however, accept that a 24 year old student of the game might well know more than I do.



[Do I really need to italicize portions of this post to denote sarcasm???]

 

[Whiskeyjack]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." -Douglas Adams</p>— Gunner Kiel (@GunnerKiel) <a href="https://twitter.com/GunnerKiel/status/213413556023070720" data-datetime="2012-06-14T23:32:11+00:00">June 14, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[The Polish Irishman]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." -Douglas Adams</p>— Gunner Kiel (@GunnerKiel) <a href="https://twitter.com/GunnerKiel/status/213413556023070720" data-datetime="2012-06-14T23:32:11+00:00">June 14, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I believe everyone can agree on this expect for Les. High Hopes.

 

[ulukinatme]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." -Douglas Adams</p>— Gunner Kiel (@GunnerKiel) <a href="https://twitter.com/GunnerKiel/status/213413556023070720" data-datetime="2012-06-14T23:32:11+00:00">June 14, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Thats pretty awesome

 

[ResLife Hero]

Also the story of how I ended up at ND. Went in with nothing but faith that it would work out (more than a wee bit of pressure from the fam to go there over UTexas), came out realizing my life was exponentially better having made the decision. Good luck to you Gunner, sounds like you're finding the same thing.

 

[Rhode Irish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." -Douglas Adams</p>— Gunner Kiel (@GunnerKiel) <a href="https://twitter.com/GunnerKiel/status/213413556023070720" data-datetime="2012-06-14T23:32:11+00:00">June 14, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I doubt a lot of freshman BCS football players quote literary figures like Douglas Adams. Other schools get this.

#ND

 

[yankeeND]

This is great stuff! Very excited for his future here!

 

[NDdomer2]

I doubt a lot of freshman BCS football players quote literary figures like Douglas Adams. Other schools get this.

#ND

Did you see the response with a real sonnet? Pretty good stuff.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Did you are the response with a real sonnet? Pretty good stuff.

Yeah, the deadspin commenters are pretty good.

 

[irishff1014]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." -Douglas Adams</p>— Gunner Kiel (@GunnerKiel) <a href="https://twitter.com/GunnerKiel/status/213413556023070720" data-datetime="2012-06-14T23:32:11+00:00">June 14, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Awesome is what this is. Glad to have him at ND!!