Who do you want to replace Brian Kelly?

[Irish YJ]

What I see in here is "But Mommy, I want a championship NOW!!" LOL

I've wanted a championship for over 20 years. I can't ask Mommy no more.

 

[Irish_I_HadHair]

What if he promotes Elston, but gives him autonomy to select his staff?

What if Jack doesn't let him hire a high-priced DC because he's keeping his options open over the next month if some pipe dream candidates become available? (Niners GM reportedly on cusp of firing, ridiculous Saban idea, Bill O'Brien, Sean Payton, who knows?)

 

[OCIrish]

What I see in here is "But Mommy, I want a championship NOW!!" LOL

Right, because fans should just accept mediocrity out of the football program and be happy with that.

 

[Irishize]

If they didn't extend Kelly, he would've left last year... probably for the USC job. The only thing you can quibble over is the length of the extension, the financial commitment, etc. but none of us know exactly what those discussions were and what it took to keep him.

If that's true (& I think you're right), then it tells me Kelly won't ever be what we hoped and that we should part ways after 2017 no matter how it ends. If he's looking for the next best job or he's realized had enough of ND, then we need a new coach next year.

The difference w/ parting ways at the end of 2015 vs next year is that I believe I now know what BK's ceiling is: beating the teams he's supposed to beat, losing closely to the better/equal teams & getting destroyed in a NY6 bowl. That's the best he can do which is slightly better than his last three predecessors.

 

[phork]

The problem as I see it is this. Financially it is suicide to let Kelly go, well maybe not with the pockets available but it doesn't look good. No coaching options worth that scratch, as noted above.
The flipside to it all is thet Kelly is a dead man walking and I think that is worse in recruits eyes than disgruntled fans writing shit in the snow. I think the relationship is irrevocably busted. The NFL is one thing, every coach aspires to it. Flirting with USC, if true, is a death sentence in my eyes.

Kelly is here until a viable option appears or the work environment is so poisoned that Kelly leaves on his own accord.

 

[ThePiombino]

I wonder how many ads gk has personally taken out...

 

[Classic Irish]

Right, because fans should just accept mediocrity out of the football program and be happy with that.

Nice strawman argument. Get a clue.

 

[OCIrish]

Nice strawman argument. Get a clue.

Did I saw something untrue in my post??????

 

[Irish Insanity]

Did I saw something untrue in my post??????

Nope, you were spot on.

 

[Irish#1]

It's more of a combination. I said they're not going to effectively pay $8mil/year for Matt Rhule. They would pay that for John Harbaugh, they'd probably pay that Bill O'Brien. It's a combination of the money AND that there isn't a good option. The bigger issue is the latter part of that. There's no universe where Rhule is clearly a better and safer choice than Kelly.



If they didn't extend Kelly, he would've left last year... probably for the USC job. The only thing you can quibble over is the length of the extension, the financial commitment, etc. but none of us know exactly what those discussions were and what it took to keep him.

People would've absolutely lost their minds if that happened.



Regardless of what you think of this situation with Kelly and how it might be unique in college football, there is no doubt that fans taking out ads to fire a coach who went to a NY6 bowl the previous season is basically unprecedented. It's not about being mad on social media or message boards... it's about the next level shit. That's why national media are writing articles about ND fans acting like fools... because it's different than what we normally see.

I see his name keep popping up. He seems to be very happy with the Texans. Am I missing something where he might have given people the impression he wants to come back to the collegiate ranks?

 

[ScooterIrish]

I see his name keep popping up. He seems to be very happy with the Texans. Am I missing something where he might have given people the impression he wants to come back to the collegiate ranks?

No idea but I can't imagine any coach being happy with so much money tied up in an awful QB.

 

[OCIrish]

No idea but I can't imagine any coach being happy with so much money tied up in an awful QB.

The Chicago Bears say hello

 

[Classic Irish]

Did I saw something untrue in my post??????

I'm tired of the inane argument that those who aren't protesting Kelly's return next season are somehow satisfied with the 4-8 season.

You seem to imply that fans who have accepted the harsh reality that Kelly is going to return next season are somehow satisfied with the status quo. No ND fan that I know is happy with this past season. That some fans realize that Kelly won't be fired at this point doesn't mean that they are happy with mediocrity. It's just realizing that the situation is what it is, and throwing tantrums and pouting don't solve anything. Many are hoping for 18-21 year old student athletes to lose so that the coach gets canned. As an ND alum, that line of thinking is disgraceful, in my view.

If I misunderstood your post, then I apologize.

 

[ThePiombino]

I see his name keep popping up. He seems to be very happy with the Texans. Am I missing something where he might have given people the impression he wants to come back to the collegiate ranks?

No idea but I can't imagine any coach being happy with so much money tied up in an awful QB.

My understanding is that he never really loved coaching college (because recruiting?). Or maybe he did, but he just loved NFL more. Either way, I think he'd have to be out of NFL options before he ever came back to college. Could be wrong.

 

[arrowryan]

Today should be the start of a week where we start hearing things about the new DC and other staff changes.

I was wondering why we hadn't heard anything yet but then realized that a recruiting dead period started last night so I can see why BK wanted to get a lot of recruiting done the last 2 weeks.

 

[kmoose]

Given that Stanford seems to hold an advantage lately...I feel like the argument about academic rigors has less weight.

Stanford is always brought out as the comparison. Yet, what have we seen come to light in the last few years, regarding academics at the two schools?

Notre Dame will look for, investigate, and punish academic malfeasance; while Stanford is providing its athletes with a "How To" manual.

I guess my point is, the folks who wanted to replace BK have some solid basis for that desire. I only hope they cut the bullshit of running adds and carving shit in the snow that will cost recruits...I expected more out of ND people than to devolve into self-detrimental tantrums where they burn down their own shit because they are disgruntled...fucking stupid.

THIS is where I see most of the "anti" people at. No one is really defending the idea that Kelly should not be fired. They may be ambivalent, but I don't think anyone is staunch in their support of retaining Kelly at this point. What they ARE protesting is the methods that these people are using. It is almost as if they watched people in Ferguson and Baltimore burn down businesses (and jobs) in their own neighborhoods to protest their economic plight and thought, "Hey, WE should try something like that!" If you want to write a letter, fine. Write a letter and send it to Jack Swarbrick. Then post in on the internet so that others can print it off, sign it, and send it to Jack as well. If he gets 50,000 letters, then that makes a LOUD statement. But don't put the letter in the paper and "air your dirty laundry" in public, so to speak.

 

[Classic Irish]

Stanford is always brought out as the comparison. Yet, what have we seen come to light in the last few years, regarding academics at the two schools?

Notre Dame will look for, investigate, and punish academic malfeasance; while Stanford is providing its athletes with a "How To" manual.



THIS is where I see most of the "anti" people at. No one is really defending the idea that Kelly should not be fired. They may be ambivalent, but I don't think anyone is staunch in their support of retaining Kelly at this point. What they ARE protesting is the methods that these people are using. It is almost as if they watched people in Ferguson and Baltimore burn down businesses (and jobs) in their own neighborhoods to protest their economic plight and thought, "Hey, WE should try something like that!" If you want to write a letter, fine. Write a letter and send it to Jack Swarbrick. Then post in on the internet so that others can print it off, sign it, and send it to Jack as well. If he gets 50,000 letters, then that makes a LOUD statement. But don't put the letter in the paper and "air your dirty laundry" in public, so to speak.

^^^^^This.

 

[phgreek]

Stanford is always brought out as the comparison. Yet, what have we seen come to light in the last few years, regarding academics at the two schools?

Notre Dame will look for, investigate, and punish academic malfeasance; while Stanford is providing its athletes with a "How To" manual.



THIS is where I see most of the "anti" people at. No one is really defending the idea that Kelly should not be fired. They may be ambivalent, but I don't think anyone is staunch in their support of retaining Kelly at this point. What they ARE protesting is the methods that these people are using. It is almost as if they watched people in Ferguson and Baltimore burn down businesses (and jobs) in their own neighborhoods to protest their economic plight and thought, "Hey, WE should try something like that!" If you want to write a letter, fine. Write a letter and send it to Jack Swarbrick. Then post in on the internet so that others can print it off, sign it, and send it to Jack as well. If he gets 50,000 letters, then that makes a LOUD statement. But don't put the letter in the paper and "air your dirty laundry" in public, so to speak.

Ok...I get that Stanford may not be the perfect example. However, do they talk about the academic "relief" in recruiting? Are their entrance requirements easier? Yea granted, one facet of the academic issue...what you actually have to do to stay eligible...is not the same, and that has an impact.

As for the self-destructive behavior...your examples are exactly what I had in mind.

 

[CrystalHead]

The problem as I see it is this. Financially it is suicide to let Kelly go, well maybe not with the pockets available but it doesn't look good. No coaching options worth that scratch, as noted above.
The flipside to it all is thet Kelly is a dead man walking and I think that is worse in recruits eyes than disgruntled fans writing shit in the snow. I think the relationship is irrevocably busted. The NFL is one thing, every coach aspires to it. Flirting with USC, if true, is a death sentence in my eyes.

Kelly is here until a viable option appears or the work environment is so poisoned that Kelly leaves on his own accord.

Couldn't agree more. Flirting with USC was grounds enough for a firing. I totally get flirting with the NFL, but a huge rival in the college ranks? He showed his lack of love where he's at right now, his 4-8 season proved that. Of course he's out recruiting hard, he needs to have a good season so he can look good in other programs eyes. It's nothing but posturing for another good program looking for a change. You dont think Kelly hears the discontent of the fan base? Of course he does and that's why he will be gone next year regardless of his record IMO.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Stanford is always brought out as the comparison. Yet, what have we seen come to light in the last few years, regarding academics at the two schools?

Notre Dame will look for, investigate, and punish academic malfeasance; while Stanford is providing its athletes with a "How To" manual.

We've also seen examples of several players rejected from Stanford but admitted here. The academic argument makes ND fans feel good about themselves and also provides an excuse for failed coaches. But there is very little evidence to support it.

And just because ND doesn't provide a "list" of easy classes for athletes doesn't mean people are unaware of which classes are easy.

 

[kmoose]

We've also seen examples of several players rejected from Stanford but admitted here. The academic argument makes ND fans feel good about themselves and also provides an excuse for failed coaches. But there is very little evidence to support it.

Admissions is not what I am talking about, so I wish you would quit saying this. It's the academics required, once on campus, that I am referencing.

You do realize why coaches always talk about senior leadership being so important, right? It's because the NCAA limits the amount of time that the coaches can spend with the team, preparing for a game. But the NCAA does NOT limit the amount of time that the team spends together, without the coaches, preparing. You think that Alabama players don't spend massive amounts of time watching film, with the upperclassmen breaking it down with them instead of the coaches? Gets the kids ready............. doesn't count as "practice time". I'm not saying that this same practice doesn't happen at ND. But if you think that our players have the same amount of time to devote to football as many other schools' players do, then you are sorely mistaken.

 

[IrishLax]

Right, because fans should just accept mediocrity out of the football program and be happy with that.

Did I saw something untrue in my post??????

Yes, you did.

Nobody is "accepting" 4-8. The straw man is that people are "happy" with the status quo. That is all untrue. There are very few Kelly supporters left, and even those very few sure as heck aren't "happy."

This is not about wanting Kelly gone, which is obviously valid. It's about the effect and purpose newspaper ads, etc. The arguments in favor of newspaper ads are as follows:
1) "We need to let the administration know that we aren't happy with 4-8 like they are! Did you see Swarbrick's comments? He thinks Kelly is great and is an idiot!" -- or something to this effect. In short, you have to be completely ignorant to believe the administration, BoT, Swarbrick, etc. are in any way content with Kelly and what transpired this year, and that they need a newspaper ad to grasp fan displeasure. They aren't stupid, they already get it... there just wasn't a good option for change this year.
2) "It's necessary activism to make the situation so toxic that a change will get made!" -- well, no, it's not necessary to get a change made for next year. And no change is coming this year unless an NFL coach falls in our laps. The "activism" that would've made sense a month ago doesn't make any sense now unless your goal is to hurt recruiting.

So let's please be intellectually honest here. There are two groups of people... those that are unhappy but ready to move on to 2017 because they understand the situation; and those that unhappy and see a need to continue to throw public tantrums. Anyone who opts to include themselves in the second group is, IMO, making an extremely questionable decision.

 

[OCIrish]

Lax, I wasn't talking about just this past season, but Kelly's tenure as a whole, and no, I'm not advocating the extracurricular activity....(newspaper ads & snow writing) especially during a big recruiting weekend, but this is a forum and message board. Just as some people are allowed to move on to the 2017 season with.......whatever optimism some may have left, those of us that want to complain that feel the program is heading nowhere fast are allowed to voice those opinions as well. You can sit there and ask what good does it do to piss and moan about something we have no control over, yes, I know Kelly is coaching ND next year, I also know there's nobody out there who's overly qualified to come in and do the job per se. At this point, I'm not terribly sure anybody would want to come in to South Bend who wants to get this ship righted. Another frustration though is Swarbrick. If he gave Kelly the extension just to keep him from going to Southern Cal last year, then I see him as a part of the problem and not part of the solution. Hell, why would you give a HC an extension if he wants to be somewhere else???

 

[RDU Irish]

Pitching a fit at this point is pretty stupid. I hope Kelly finds success next year - unless he makes a good DC hire and cleans some other assistant positions up I don't see it happening.

30 for 30 gives me hope for what can change in one season. Lou talking about Zorich being the only one crying and didn't even play is where he decided to build around him. Maybe we have too many Renaissance men in front and need them to take a back seat to some warriors.

 

[IrishLax]

Lax, I wasn't talking about just this past season, but Kelly's tenure as a whole, and no, I'm not advocating the extracurricular activity....(newspaper ads & snow writing) especially during a big recruiting weekend, but this is a forum and message board.

Right, I have no problem with people calling Kelly the Great Satan or voicing whatever complaints they want on here. I've got no problem with that, I don't think many people have a problem with that. My gripe is strictly with some of the public actions being taken because I think those are counterproductive.

Hell, why would you give a HC an extension if he wants to be somewhere else???

Yeah, see, this is the pickle. I think the optics of letting Kelly walk after a great season would've been very bad, which is why they did it. At the same time, why are we trying so hard to keep a guy that has threatened to leave after each of his good seasons ('12 &'15)? I think it's clear in hindsight that it was a massive mistake to give him as long of an extension as we did but for all I know we were simply matching what was on the table from another school. We are far from the first school to have a sitting coach grab them by the balls, but I can't remember the last one it worked out for.

 

[RDU Irish]

Right, I have no problem with people calling Kelly the Great Satan or voicing whatever complaints they want on here. I've got no problem with that, I don't think many people have a problem with that. My gripe is strictly with some of the public actions being taken because I think those are counterproductive.



Yeah, see, this is the pickle. I think the optics of letting Kelly walk after a great season would've been very bad, which is why they did it. At the same time, why are we trying so hard to keep a guy that has threatened to leave after each of his good seasons ('12 &'15)? I think it's clear in hindsight that it was a massive mistake to give him as long of an extension as we did but for all I know we were simply matching what was on the table from another school. We are far from the first school to have a sitting coach grab them by the balls, but I can't remember the last one it worked out for.

BK: "I need a huge extension."

Jack: "Hey thanks for building this great foundation - we won't have a problem filling your vacancy with someone that wants to be an eternal legend with a statue outside the stadium when they win a championship with your talent. Totally understand if your don't think you can get there and appreciate all you have done for Our Lady."

BK: "But I'm like a big deal! You don't understand how bad other people want me!"

Jack: "Win a 'ship and we will talk. In the meantime you are just keeping Lou's seat warm until the next legend arrives."

 

[OCIrish]

Agreed......I'm going to throw this out there, because I didn't think last season was great. I know you'll think I'm nuts, but I thought the defense starting downhill after the UVA game last season. They played lights out against Texas, but the offense was able to over come most shortcomings by the defense simply by outscoring most of their opponents. In years past that wouldn't have been cause for alarm, however, when you've got a Sheldon Day & Jaylon Smith in your front two levels of the D, you shouldnt have to rely on the offense to bail you out.

I definitely agree about the coaches holding ND by the sack, and not working g out well for the program.

 

[gkIrish]

I wonder how many ads gk has personally taken out...

I couldn't afford to even if I was so inclined.

 

[NDohio]

Agreed......I'm going to throw this out there, because I didn't think last season was great. I know you'll think I'm nuts, but I thought the defense starting downhill after the UVA game last season. They played lights out against Texas, but the offense was able to over come most shortcomings by the defense simply by outscoring most of their opponents. In years past that wouldn't have been cause for alarm, however, when you've got a Sheldon Day & Jaylon Smith in your front two levels of the D, you shouldnt have to rely on the offense to bail you out.

I definitely agree about the coaches holding ND by the sack, and not working g out well for the program.

I would say 90% of the people on this board would agree with you and there were legitimate concerns raised here on IE throughout last season despite the wins. Do you remember Joe Schmidt?

 

[kmoose]

...the offense was able to over come most shortcomings by the defense simply by outscoring most of their opponents...

This is a pretty common occurrence, all over college football.