TURF - it's official

[woolybug25]

I think it's totally fair for someone to believe that playing on an artificial surface goes against the traditions of the program. We have traditionally been a program that has a clean, unobtrusive look to our facilities and there is no debating that turf is plastic... not grass.

If someone believes that the game is supposed to be played on natural surfaces, and by following the trends of the rest of college football, we are losing a peice of our identity... then that is their opinion and they shouldn't be bashed for it. This site is for intelligent debate and dialogue.

Simply relegating another's opinion "stupid" or "myopic", because it doesn't run lock step with your own, is the definition of irony.

 

[wizards8507]

So you're against fieldturf simply from a "tradition" standpoint?

Not necessarily "tradition," but "traditionAL" I guess. There's no big logical argument I'm trying to make, it's just a gut thing. A plastic football field just doesn't feel right, like a plastic Christmas tree or indoor baseball. I'm sure there are plenty of people here that prefer a natural Christmas tree over an artificial one for no deeper reason than "that's the way it ought to be," but those same people ridicule those who have the save feeling about a football field.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Not necessarily "tradition," but "traditionAL" I guess. There's no big logical argument I'm trying to make, it's just a gut thing. A plastic football field just doesn't feel right, like a plastic Christmas tree or indoor baseball. I'm sure there are plenty of people here that prefer a natural Christmas tree over an artificial one for no deeper reason than "that's the way it ought to be," but those same people ridicule those who have the save feeling about a football field.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

I can feel you on this one Wizards, because up until a few years ago I was vocally in your court. Grass was it. Everything else was a conspiracy by those that brought us the military industrial complex. Then two high school programs went to an artificial surface, and they redid the Glass Bowl, (University of Toledo facility.) I know enough involved with each program to follow the impact. Especially with the one high school; they had one awards for having the best conditioned grass (high school) field in Ohio several times. And they had some pretty good athletes use the field, before and after the conversion.

I know the AD and former head football coach. They both stated that the reduction in game injuries on turf was phenomenal. The AD broke the game injuries down for ten years. The worst were in late season mud. Was it a combination of a long season as well as poor traction? Who knows. They have only had a couple of significant injuries in five years.

In fact, all but one of the serious injuries have taken place on the grass practice field. All three programs have had a significant reduction in injuries. And I have been on all three surfaces. They aren't like the Astroturf that was first installed in the Glass Bowl in 1974 that I played on. That was like sandpaper on asphalt. The only thing it did advantageously was eliminate the incredible drainage problem inherent with the location of that stadium.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Notre Dame has a "tradition" of having the "Gold Standard" for excellence in academics, athletics, facilities for athletes and students. Field Turf is a modern invention that provides a better surface, and provides the ability to let the athletes perform better. Like the article stated, Michigan, Ohio St, Nebraska, are 3 programs that have field turf and they are historic and have great tradition. But they realize that due to weather that having a grass field is not practical. I mean everyone likes a football game in the mud, but at the sametime, if there is a surface that can prevent a game like the Navy/BYU game last year, why not get it. I dont think either team in the Navy game enjoyed that game. Theres a diff in playing a muddy game, and what took place that day.

ND isnt compromising its values in getting field turf, it is showing they are sticking to its values and providing the best of best for its student athletes. That is exactly what happened when they tore down Cartier Field and built the current stadium, and the expansions to the current stadium. I get that people are upset about not having grass, but once you see the final product, I dont think anyone can argue it wasnt the right move.

 

[Grahambo]

Interesting conversation. I acknowledge you all for stepping over and then stepping back. And it is interesting that there was a misunderstanding that resulted in hurt feelings, go figure!

Here is the point. In the American language, most users don't know a subtle little thing about it called "different parts of speech." Kind of like driving, and not being cognizant of changing lanes, or gears for that matter.

So communication becomes broken : And so it goes.

Grass is traditional. Traditional used to be called an adjective. Further describes the noun "grass." This is a true statement.

Grass is a tradition. Definitely a noun. And definitely not true. Look in the dictionary for the definition of the abstract thing. Not true of grass at ND because it was never picked among options. As the article explains, until it was a consciously chosen option, it was the defacto choice. And if you read all the numbers, this generation of turf is the first one, and is clearly safer than any other surface including grass.

So now we have a simple choice throw caution to the wind and opt for the choice with a clearly higher injury rate, that is less desired by the players and coaches, or go with the safer more desired option.

Those that don't put player safety first, can go play in traffic, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Sorry, forgot. Was just trying to explain the difference between what two sides were saying. In this case the difference makes all the difference.

Either that or I am just a motard.

 

[RDU Irish]

Not necessarily "tradition," but "traditionAL" I guess. There's no big logical argument I'm trying to make, it's just a gut thing. A plastic football field just doesn't feel right, like a plastic Christmas tree or indoor baseball. I'm sure there are plenty of people here that prefer a natural Christmas tree over an artificial one for no deeper reason than "that's the way it ought to be," but those same people ridicule those who have the save feeling about a football field.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

Plastic tree is practical or me and my family, more economical and safer too. Yes I can agree that a real tree would be more traditional but it is not practical. Pretty good analogy when you equate fire hazard and injury risk. Emotion versus logic really.

 

[woolybug25]

Plastic tree is practical or me and my family, more economical and safer too. Yes I can agree that a real tree would be more traditional but it is not practical. Pretty good analogy when you equate fire hazard and injury risk. Emotion versus logic really.

Plastic Christmas trees are crap.

 

[IrishLion]

Plastic tree is practical or me and my family, more economical and safer too. Yes I can agree that a real tree would be more traditional but it is not practical. Pretty good analogy when you equate fire hazard and injury risk. Emotion versus logic really.

Plastic Christmas trees are crap.

We could never have a real tree because my mom is allergic.

Ipso facto, turf is the only logical choice in case of grass allergies.

 

[wizards8507]

Plastic tree is practical or me and my family, more economical and safer too. Yes I can agree that a real tree would be more traditional but it is not practical. Pretty good analogy when you equate fire hazard and injury risk. Emotion versus logic really.

I don't fault anyone for preferring a plastic tree or a plastic football field. I never said people who want artificial turf are "wrong," I merely took umbrage to the personal assault that some people were slinging at those who prefer grass. I think it's perfectly reasonable to prefer either one, and I happen to prefer the grass. The thing that bothers me is when people try to say that the ONLY reasonable solution is one or the other and if you think otherwise you're a f***ing idiot.

Plastic Christmas trees are crap.

My wife was super paranoid about a natural Christmas tree here in Florida due to a nasty cockroach infestation a couple of years ago. We've had a 9' plastic monstrosity for the last two years and I can't WAIT to cut my own fresh one in central Connecticut this winter.

 

[PANDFAN]

SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- The news of Notre Dame Stadium replacing its playing surface was met in the locker room with nearly unanimous approval. The players, of course, are the ones who are affected most by such a decision. Take KeiVarae Russell, a cornerback who must rely on the ground beneath him as much as anyone else on the field.

"We played USC last year -- that field was terrible. Oh-my-God," the outspoken junior cracked. "I'm excited."

Added quarterback Everett Golson, who was sacked at least once in Saturday's spring game because he lost his footing: "It's nice. It's nice. Because I came from FieldTurf, even in high school. So it's going to be a joy, man."

More on Notre Dame
Notre Dame For full coverage of the Irish, check out the Notre Dame blog, part of ESPN's College Football Nation. Blog
More:
• Notre Dame's clubhouse page
• ESPN Chicago's college blog

But the decision was hardly that simple, given the history and tradition that follows the Irish football program at nearly every turn. Athletic director Jack Swarbrick, a 1976 graduate of the school, knew this better than most, which is why he spent much of the last two months explaining to others in leadership positions at the school why he decided that the move from natural grass to FieldTurf was the best way to go for the future.

Swarbrick arrived at the decision in late February. He said that the underwhelming surface that the Blue-Gold game was played on reflected the best condition maintenance could possibly get the field in for game time. Notre Dame replaced its surface four times last year, he said -- after commencement, in July and twice in the season.

"It's probably more a personal preference than sort of an athletic department preference," Swarbrick said of natural grass. "I like it. I'm an alum here. It's part of the dynamic of the place, and so I was inclined to say, Can we do it? And some of the other iconic stadiums have held onto it: Green Bay, the Rose Bowl. And so both of those things played a role. But we just couldn't get ourselves there."

Swarbrick said there have yet to be discussions about any possible logos or marks on the field, but that he would not anticipate any major changes. The FieldTurf's color, for the curious eccentrics out there, will be green.

The news, along with the winter announcement of the Campus Crossroads Project to expand the stadium's use, could result in more non-football events, with Swarbrick specifically mentioning a hockey game.

"Everybody is in agreement; if we can get the best surface there and grass, we'd love to have that," coach Brian Kelly said after the spring game. "We just haven't been able to get to that. This is my fifth year here at Notre Dame and we haven't been able to get to that. This is the best option available to us, and I'm happy that Jack Swarbrick, our athletic director, our administration, has acted and we are going to have that playing field in place for the fall so we don't have to have those concerns going into 2014."
espn

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Plastic Christmas trees are crap.

I go with molybdenum.

 

[sos32]

I just want to know which line do I get in to buy a patch of the grass they will be taking out. I shall plant it in my yard and eventually my lawn will be grass from ND

 

[koonja]

I just want to know which line do I get in to buy a patch of the grass they will be taking out. I shall plant it in my yard and eventually my lawn will be grass from ND

That's such a cool idea (wooly said the same thing about a year ago).

Wish I was a home owner.

 

[Irish Insanity]

That's such a cool idea (wooly said the same thing about a year ago).

Wish I was a home owner.

You live in OSU country. Plant that shit in your building lawn and soon they will have ND lawn growing in their backyard and never know it

 

[Rhode Irish]

Plastic Christmas trees are crap.

On this we can agree.

 

[JTLA]

I just want to know which line do I get in to buy a patch of the grass they will be taking out. I shall plant it in my yard and eventually my lawn will be grass from ND

Plant it in your yard and eventually your lawn will be brown.

 

[Irish#1]

Heres the thing...rainy/snowy weather is a part of real football, but you don't want it to lead to injuries or other negatives for your team. Rain on it's own doesn't necessarily contribute to injuries, but combined with a grass surface it can cause problems. The ball gets wet, it can cause fumbles, both teams are affected by it and from that standpoint it benefits neither team...that is unless you favor a passing offense. The field gets torn up, it makes it difficult for offensive linemen to get footing, and it becomes much more difficult to time routes and catch balls. Games in poor weather on grass often go to the team that can pound the ball better.

Look at Navy last year. Their running attack kept them in the game while our depleted defense struggled to get stops and our offensive skill players like TJ were slipping on the field. We can't have our athletes neutralized in games against the Navys of the world.
All this changes with Field Turf. You get improved footing and field conditions. You take the mud out of the equation, but you still can enjoy a game in the elements.

I understand theres a lot of mixed feelings about things like playing surface, Jumbotrons, views of TD Jesus (I was rather upset myself when I saw the vision was blocked in the '97 expansion), etc. I think when it comes down to it, you have to do whatever is best for the athletes first, and then the fans. Field Turf benefits the athletes. A Jumbotron, tactfully done and not further blocking TD Jesus, could help keep fans engaged and excited during those long arse NBC TV timeouts. TV timeouts are the bane of football. Nothing is better at killing fan excitement and team momentum than a TV timeout. Unfortunately they are a necessary evil. Show game/player highlights during the break on a big screen during that time...and no offense to the ND Chess Team, but it's kind of a buzz kill when they are corralled out during TV breaks to announce their latest World Championship. It's impressive, I support them, it just...always feels so awkward to see them out there. The fans had great feedback about the Jumbotron from the Arizona State game last year. Keeping the fans engaged in the game is not only is good for the fans, but it can keep the team motivated...and we definitely need to exercise more home field advantage in the House that Rockne built.

Tradition is great, but what if it holds you back? If we were still a team that ran the triple option, I'd say keep the grass as it could work in our favor. We're not though, we're a Spread offense that's looking to pass lots and run some read option. If we seriously want to be a football powerhouse we need to let go of a few traditions perhaps and get in line with the rest of the 21st century. Not only will these kinds of changes help our athletes and keep our crowd engaged, but they can help entice better athletes to come to Notre Dame.

I'm not against changes. I was happy to see the stadium renovation and I'm for a video. I also wouldn't mind a logo on the field or "IRISH" in the end zone. Injuries are going to happen regardless. I just prefer grass and what the change in elements can bring to the game.

 

[Irish#1]

I think it's totally fair for someone to believe that playing on an artificial surface goes against the traditions of the program. We have traditionally been a program that has a clean, unobtrusive look to our facilities and there is no debating that turf is plastic... not grass.

If someone believes that the game is supposed to be played on natural surfaces, and by following the trends of the rest of college football, we are losing a peice of our identity... then that is their opinion and they shouldn't be bashed for it. This site is for intelligent debate and dialogue.

Simply relegating another's opinion "stupid" or "myopic", because it doesn't run lock step with your own, is the definition of irony.

Reps man.

 

[phgreek]

I think it's totally fair for someone to believe that playing on an artificial surface goes against the traditions of the program. We have traditionally been a program that has a clean, unobtrusive look to our facilities and there is no debating that turf is plastic... not grass.

If someone believes that the game is supposed to be played on natural surfaces, and by following the trends of the rest of college football, we are losing a peice of our identity... then that is their opinion and they shouldn't be bashed for it. This site is for intelligent debate and dialogue.

Simply relegating another's opinion "stupid" or "myopic", because it doesn't run lock step with your own, is the definition of irony.

I like grass...why you say...no part of tradition, but as a more practical matter. Until you have open weeping "rug burns" on both knees and both elbows in August, in full pads...I guess you wouldn't know. Maybe this generation of surface is better than those I played on. Maybe I did it wrong...IDK. But I played through broken fingers that were less distracting than "rug burns"...so I don't want that grief for any player.

The logic for a synthetic playing surface at ND is pretty clear in my opinion if you hear Swarbrick's interviews...the grass is unsupportable with the stadium demands as they are. He cited some ancillary benefits like matching all practice and playing surfaces...however the driver seems to be an issue of supportability to any kind of acceptable playing standards. Sounds like the players actually want it...its their skin, so I trust they know what is best. But Jack said something to the effect of..."if there was anyone who tried to keep the grass" referring to himself...so I'll take from that he "LIKES" grass too. Guy lacks vision and intellect.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I like grass...why you say...no part of tradition, but as a more practical matter. Until you have open weeping "rug burns" on both knees and both elbows in August, in full pads...I guess you wouldn't know. Maybe this generation of surface is better than those I played on. Maybe I did it wrong...IDK. But I played through broken fingers that were less distracting than "rug burns"...so I don't want that grief for any player.

The logic for a synthetic playing surface at ND is pretty clear in my opinion if you hear Swarbrick's interviews...the grass is unsupportable with the stadium demands as they are. He cited some ancillary benefits like matching all practice and playing surfaces...however the driver seems to be an issue of supportability to any kind of acceptable playing standards. Sounds like the players actually want it...its their skin, so I trust they know what is best. But Jack said something to the effect of..."if there was anyone who tried to keep the grass" referring to himself...so I'll take from that he "LIKES" grass too. Guy lacks vision and intellect.

I did mention that earlier, bud. I played on turf as early as the fall of '74 and I coached on it as late as the fall of '12. 'Astro' versus 'field,' there is no comparison. I am sure you can still get an abrasion, but they have undergarments for that, too. I would state that it is almost impossible to get anything like the old sandpaper over asphalt gave us!

 

[NDdomer2]

i played on fieldturf my entire time in college and the only time i ever got "rug burn" was after it had rained. even then it wasnt every time you went down.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

i played on fieldturf my entire time in college and the only time i ever got "rug burn" was after it had rained. even then it wasnt every time you went down.

That is what I thought. Thanks for the clarification. You should have seen the early stuff, help!

To me it is a no brainer that as soon as technology improved they would make it softer and less abrasive, or they would lose their market entirely.

 

[NDdomer2]

That is what I thought. Thanks for the clarification. You should have seen the early stuff, help!

To me it is a no brainer that as soon as technology improved they would make it softer and less abrasive, or they would lose their market entirely.

we went to state in high school and got to play at the RCA dome before it was demolished. They had the old astroturf. Within first 5 minutes of the game I went down. When I got up the entire tacky surface of my gloves were gone.

second lame story then I will let this thread go back to bickering about the inevitable. My position coach in college played a lot of low level arena football. Think Fort Wayne Freedom (Fusion, Freedom, Firehawks, lol). He scraped his elbow up pretty bad on someones "carpet" field. He got staph infection in that elbow. Every year since he has had to go back to the hospital and get his elbow drained.

the old stuff was awful. the new stuff is where it's at.

 

[Huntr]

we went to state in high school and got to play at the RCA dome before it was demolished. They had the old astroturf. Within first 5 minutes of the game I went down. When I got up the entire tacky surface of my gloves were gone.

second lame story then I will let this thread go back to bickering about the inevitable. My position coach in college played a lot of low level arena football. Think Fort Wayne Freedom (Fusion, Freedom, Firehawks, lol). He scraped his elbow up pretty bad on someones "carpet" field. He got staph infection in that elbow. Every year since he has had to go back to the hospital and get his elbow drained.

the old stuff was awful. the new stuff is where it's at.

Yup. I think that distinction is a lot of the issue for folks. Maybe not so much here, but in general. People hear "artificial surface" and they think of something like the turf at old Veteran's Stadium. FieldTurf is nothing like that.

 

[woolybug25]

I fell on my grandma's steps as a kid.

It had astroturf.

It hurt.

 

[dublinirish]

Yup. I think that distinction is a lot of the issue for folks. Maybe not so much here, but in general. People hear "artificial surface" and they think of something like the turf at old Veteran's Stadium. FieldTurf is nothing like that.

Yup! Its not as if the average ND ole basterd has the eye-sight to see the difference anyways

 

[rikkitikki08]

I once fell in my grandmas astro turf screened in porch, you don't know pain as a child until you experience astro turf burn

 

[IrishLion]

I played a football game at Cinergy Field in Cincinnati when I was young (before they blew that piece up and built Paul Brown Stadium).

Astroturf still gives me nightmares.

 

[NDdomer2]

I fell on my grandma's steps as a kid.

It had astroturf.

It hurt.

I once fell in my grandmas astro turf screened in porch, you don't know pain as a child until you experience astro turf burn

you guys didn't happen to have the same grandma did you?