Trump Presidency

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RDU Irish

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My take:

This is not the Cold War. Russia is not an enemy, nor are they powerful enough to warrant an American strategy of opposing them everywhere and at great costs. Those days are behind us, and it's not crazy to say that needlessly provoking Russia is worth it anymore.

At this point Russia is Mexico with a stockpile of ICBMs. They are a petrostate with no innovation or technologies that peaceful, developed nations want to buy. And demographics guarantee that this will not change through the next generation.

Russia's moves in the Crimea were self-defeating, even though the GOP didn't want to admit that because they were in full-blown opposition mode.

Are they a bigger foe than Iran? That's tough to say. Are they a bigger long term concern than China? No way. But Russia's oligarchs have shown no willingness to capitulate to an American-led global order that has created the most peaceful and prosperous period in human history, and so yeah they are a foe in that they are among the last holdouts and are actively trying to divide the West. Because they know they cannot succeed against a West that has any sort of unity. With an economy the size of Mexico, how could they?

Trump is Putin's wet dream but that doesn't make Russia was a geopolitical enemy in 2012 or today.

I agree with most of this. The hand wringers over Russia sound like a bunch of 70 year old men. Much the same with the Middle East. Let them blow themselves up like they have since the beginning of time. The door is open if you ever want to join civilized society and we will take the liberty to drone strike the crap out of terrorist camps at our leisure. Scale it all way the f back and stop wasting so much money on exercises in futility. Military industrial complex is a real thing.
 

irishfan

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First of all, this is a king of a run on sentence. You must have been multitasking.

Second, the buzzfeed story isn't the intelligent report and vice versa. They are mutually exclusive.

Ha! Busy day here at work, so you are correct. I am trying to multitask and it was pretty piss (not busy enough to sneak in a pun) poor grammar.

To your second point....

To me, this whole past election season has shown that people don't care about facts and many don't care about doing their own research on topics like this. This story is big enough and outlandish enough that I think this, combined with the "fake news" hysteria that took place post-election, is going to make people even more likely to distrust media reports.

I think people just have their own problems and interests that they're not going to be as gung-ho in the future about a negative Trump story if any of this is proven to be false.

We're already dumb enough as a country that the peeing portion of this report got by far the most attention....if that's proven to be false or there is any retraction then people are going to lump this in with the media being biased....even if this did come from a place as stupid as Buzzfeed and not a real news site.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Wouldn't it be nice if both sides of the political aisle decided to put most of their time & effort into actually doing what's best for the country and governing instead of doing their best imitation of two chimps at the zoo throwing their shit at each other?

That presupposes a consensus on what the common good looks like. We lost that years ago.
 

kmoose

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That presupposes a consensus on what the common good looks like. We lost that years ago.

Maybe. But I still like the idea of politicians dropping the "win at all costs" attitude. But, really, I think that attitude is merely a reflection of their constituency. You don't need to look any further than college football, to see how this manifests itself. To many people, the only way to measure success is trophies. And only the biggest ones will do. "You guys haven't won a National Championship in 10 years. Losers!" is an attitude that you see all of the time.

Or the idea that Notre Dame has not won any National Championships since 1988, so therefore they have accomplished nothing. Despite a couple of 10/10+ win seasons in just the last 5 years, people act like Notre Dame is a cupcake.

I think we will not be able to clean up government until we clean up our own attitude. Government largely reflects the society it represents. If we want a government that looks after people in need, rewards success, and espouses altruistic ideals, then we need to start living according to those principles ourselves. But, even if we can't manage that, we should still demand it from those we appoint to govern us.
 

Bishop2b5

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That presupposes a consensus on what the common good looks like. We lost that years ago.

Even so, I'd like to see both sides working for what they think is best (even if I disagree with their view of that) and trying to actually govern and work for the American people instead of making every decision based on what will help their reelection efforts and hurt the other side.

Your point about there no longer being a consensus on what the common good is, is all too true. I'm starting to believe there's no longer a way for the two sides to live together and have a functioning republic due to the vast chasm between our two sides' values & views. The two sides have moved so far apart that there's very little common ground any longer, nor any respect for each other's views.
 

ACamp1900

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That presupposes a consensus on what the common good looks like. We lost that years ago.

Even still, neither party spends as much time attempting to instill their version of good as they do attacking the other side or furthering their own party interests... at least it feels that way.
 

irishroo

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Even so, I'd like to see both sides working for what they think is best (even if I disagree with their view of that) and trying to actually govern and work for the American people instead of making every decision based on what will help their reelection efforts and hurt the other side.

Your point about there no longer being a consensus on what the common good is, is all too true. I'm starting to believe there's no longer a way for the two sides to live together and have a functioning republic due to the vast chasm between our two sides' values & views. The two sides have moved so far apart that there's very little common ground any longer, nor any respect for each other's views.

This exactly. As much as I vehemently disagree with his views, Bernie was one of very few (maybe the only) candidates this go around who I believe campaigned on what he genuinely believed to be in the best interests of the American people. I think he's wrong, but I can at least respect a person who fights for his beliefs.
 

IrishinSyria

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That presupposes a consensus on what the common good looks like. We lost that years ago.

Very true. I can't fathom what "Make America Great Again" means when- in my opinion- America has been at the forefront of the best 30 year period in world history with the past 8 marking the high water mark of that trend (see why here).
 

Whiskeyjack

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I think we will not be able to clean up government until we clean up our own attitude. Government largely reflects the society it represents. If we want a government that looks after people in need, rewards success, and espouses altruistic ideals, then we need to start living according to those principles ourselves. But, even if we can't manage that, we should still demand it from those we appoint to govern us.

Can't have a republic without a virtuous citizenry, which liberalism is constantly undermining. Something's gotta give.

Your point about there no longer being a consensus on what the common good is, is all too true. I'm starting to believe there's no longer a way for the two sides to live together and have a functioning republic due to the vast chasm between our two sides' values & views. The two sides have moved so far apart that there's very little common ground any longer, nor any respect for each other's views.

Even still, neither party spends as much time attempting to instill their version of good as they do attacking the other side or furthering their own party interests... at least it feels that way.

Without some sort of moral consensus, politics becomes a zero sum game. No room for true statesmanship then. Just naked partisanship and scorched earth tactics.
 

dublinirish

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Freedom of the Press is dead, can you imagine if Obama told Fox News to go F themselves when taking office?
 

woolybug25

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Wow... well that was the most bizarre press conference I have ever seen by a President (or in this case, elect). If that is what we are to expect going forward, it's going to be pretty wild the next 4 years.

So just like we assumed, Trump turned the focus onto the "I did not watch hookers pee on eachother" instead of the report stating his camp was in contact with Russia during the campaign as they worked to steer the election to him. In fact, the last question asked him directly if they had contact... no answer.

Awesome.
 

dublinirish

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Wow... well that was the most bizarre press conference I have ever seen by a President (or in this case, elect). If that is what we are to expect going forward, it's going to be pretty wild the next 4 years.

So just like we assumed, Trump turned the focus onto the "I did not watch hookers pee on eachother" instead of the report stating his camp was in contact with Russia during the campaign as they worked to steer the election to him. In fact, the last question asked him directly if they had contact... no answer.

Awesome.

wild 4 years is an interesting slant! :D

like anything to do with trump it was equally grotesque/comical
 

ACamp1900

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Freedom of the Press is dead, can you imagine if Obama told Fox News to go F themselves when taking office?

This is not a defense of Trump at all but I'm not crying for our collective press... they made their bed in so many ways.
 

dublinirish

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This is not a defense of Trump at all but I'm not crying for our collective press... they made their bed in so many ways.

when trump shut down the Acosta there the rest of the press pack should have showed some solidarity. He attacked one of their own and they acted like nothing had happened. It was pitiful.
 

Irish#1

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Very true. I can't fathom what "Make America Great Again" means when- in my opinion- America has been at the forefront of the best 30 year period in world history with the past 8 marking the high water mark of that trend (see why here).

So the collapse of the housing market and bank bailout is a highlight?
 

IrishinSyria

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So the collapse of the housing market and bank bailout is a highlight?

In some ways yes- we very easily could have slid into another depression but our institutions showed resiliency that they didn't have in 1929. Obviously there are still many many things wrong with the country and the world but I honestly believe that present day- at least for another week or so- is the best time to be alive in the history of humanity.
 

IrishinSyria

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The golden shower vid has leaked!

200w.gif


Disclaimer: this post is fake news.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Even so, I'd like to see both sides working for what they think is best (even if I disagree with their view of that) and trying to actually govern and work for the American people instead of making every decision based on what will help their reelection efforts and hurt the other side.

Correct me if I'm wrong but we just watched the Republican Party turn into a party of opposition for eight years. Highlighted by shutting down the federal government, they showed little willingness to act in a way that said "capable of governing."

Your point about there no longer being a consensus on what the common good is, is all too true. I'm starting to believe there's no longer a way for the two sides to live together and have a functioning republic due to the vast chasm between our two sides' values & views. The two sides have moved so far apart that there's very little common ground any longer, nor any respect for each other's views.

The "vast chasm" is only an act. The moment the Republicans are in power they live in the same reality that the Democrats do. That's why when push comes to shove, like TARP/etc, they immediately get on the same page.

And again correct me if I'm wrong, but we just saw a campaign run primarily on defeating centrism. That is, the mainstream political views in DC that do get bipartisan support.

I doubt the alt-right's President, a man with certifiable narcissism and vengeful demeanor, is going to lead us into a golden age of bipartisan cooperation.
 

phgreek

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So the collapse of the housing market and bank bailout is a highlight?

The first 9 trillion in debt was because of unpatriotic white dudes...the next 10 trillion was true transformative leadership capping of an American Renaissance... so Yea. It's like you can't understand right and wrong or something...:)


Insert spit take here...
 

Redbar

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Wouldn't it be nice if both sides of the political aisle decided to put most of their time & effort into actually doing what's best for the country and governing instead of doing their best imitation of two chimps at the zoo throwing their shit at each other?

Oh the irony! You serious, Clark?
 

kmoose

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Correct me if I'm wrong but we just watched the Republican Party turn into a party of opposition for eight years. Highlighted by shutting down the federal government, they showed little willingness to act in a way that said "capable of governing."

You're not wrong, you're just being hypocritical.

Democrats Are United in Plans To Block Top Bush Initiatives (washingtonpost.com)

As President Bush prepares for his second term, Democrats in Washington and around the country are organizing for a year of confrontation and resistance, saying they are determined to block Bush's major initiatives and thereby deny him the mandate he has claimed from his reelection victory last November.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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That presupposes a consensus on what the common good looks like. We lost that years ago.

Can't have a republic without a virtuous citizenry, which liberalism is constantly undermining. Something's gotta give.


Without some sort of moral consensus, politics becomes a zero sum game. No room for true statesmanship then. Just naked partisanship and scorched earth tactics.

This is not a defense of Trump at all but I'm not crying for our collective press... they made their bed in so many ways.

Here is what I find so incredibly ironic. This isn't about Trump, Hillary, the Press, Buzzfeed, the Russians, or any of those two-dimensional topics.

This is about the American people! The same American people that decided since they didn't like the job the congress they elected was doing, particularly the House of Representatives, they would vote the most irrational, emotionally flawed, ready, willing, and able to lie, candidate into office as president to fix the problem.

Let's face it, the American electorate lies near the middle, politically speaking. White's push that to the right slightly as seen in the less densely populated center of the country. So they are ideologically more aligned with their house candidates than not.

The American voter is who is entirely responsible for this debicle. The question is will they only 'get what they deserve or not. Here is the short list of flawed behaviors :
  • Holding everyone else accountable for shortcomings, but never taking a look in the mirror.
  • Absolute greed and avarice : Americans would sell their offspring into slavery for the money (a big enough financial gain.) In comparison, the press selling themselves out for media ratings is small potatoes.
  • Becoming world and age class chauvinists; Americans have become such accomplished liars they will turn dog shit lies into truth and decry the other side without questioning anything. Anyone who would believe such stupidity cannot consider themselves anything short of a hopeless ideologue.
  • Listening to the same thing said by the same people over and over again, expecting results to come out differently.

Whiskey : Americans have lost sight of what is the common good before, and have come back together after a coalescing event. Unfortunately, that event is almost always a war or similar catastrophic event that kills generations. Which tracks with me. I see the election this past fall as the opening shots of the American Civil War II.

We may be lucky this time. Though luck isn't really the right term to use.

More and more, studying the landscape I see the old organized crime ploy. And I have seen this first hand. The unscrupulous get a hold of a business man, through one means or another, and they rape and plunder his business, using up every asset, cash, holdings, property, credit, even good will, until nothing is left.

That is what the Trump Presidency will be. One term. Repeal every landmark reform granted to the American citizen and taxpayer over the last hundred (almost) years. And kick him aside as the villain, along with trying to pin it on the rubble of what is left of the Democrats. It is starting already. The Republican 115th : Ethics-out, Insurance mandate-out, Dodd-Frank-out, and so on. We will see how long it actually takes those crooks to try to steal social security, or whether they can get away with it!

I can't see the American public stopping them as long as they have cable, heroin, and plenty of cheap high-fructose laden fast food. And remember, they can all spend their time clubbing each other over the head with what is fake news and what isn't.

You all thing the recession brought to you by the W. Bush administration was bad? You ain't seen nothing yet!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7miRCLeFSJo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Bluto

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I think we should look at what actually happened as opposed to what was said and if you would like to have a conversation about the short comings of the Democratic Party, well that's a different subject.

John Roberts received a confirmation hearing and vote to become Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Sam Alito? How about the Ben Bernakie appointment? His administration supported an effort along with the democrats to pass comprehensive immigration reform, that was shot down by...his own party. All of this after the biggest foreign policy debacle of my lifetime...the Iraq War. So, yeah trying to draw some sort of equivalency between the two situations is complete bullshit.
 
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connor_in

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“Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won.” – President Obama to House Republican Whip Eric Cantor, January 23, 2009.

Well, yeah, but that was a Democrat president saying that. When the Democrats win the White House, they are supposed to do what they were elected to do and for Republicans to stand in the way of that is obstructionist and wrong. When a Republican wins the White House, they aren't supposed to do what they were elected to do, they are supposed compromise and work with the Democrats to come to a solution that the Democrats like.

Everyone knows this.

The caveat here is that a Trump was elected. He was elected as a Republican, but he doesn't fit as a typical Republican. He is a business man and appears to be attacking things as a business man and bringing in other successful business men to help him implement his goals. Those Democrats that are trying to treat him like a typical Republican are having a hard time because he doesn't respond the way he should in their eyes. So then you have the others in the Democrat party that go total batsh!t crazy and keep trying to overturn the election even though its over. An example of this is Rosie O'Donnell who is calling for the initiation of martial law and for the current administration to keep power until the Russian influence in the election can be studied, determined that is the only reason DJT won, and the White House handed over to HRC who totally deserves it. Or, not so far over the cuckoo's a Cory Booker who testifies that Sessions is the biggest racist POS ever and giving him the AG post will take us back to a pre-Civil War South footing for rights in this country, but less than a year ago spoke about how great it was to work with Sessions in recognizing & praising civil rights activists. Apparently the reasoning is, he is trying to set himself up as the front-runner for the 2020 Democrat nomination for president.

DJT is not a true Republican and thus will not act as one, and while I believe him to be a total douche, I truly have no full idea how he will be as president.
 
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