Tesla's Revolutionary Model 3

[BobbyMac]

Just had lunch with a buddy of mine and he just purchased a Chevy Spark electric car. Tiny little car, looks like an economy vehicle. Nothing flashy. And only gets about 100 miles to a charge. He said you really have to have a different mindset to drive an electric because the charging stations are not terribly convenient, and even the fast charge stations require you to spend 20 minutes to an hour doing something else while your car charges. Obviously the Tesla 3 goes a lot further on a charge and is a nicer looking vehicle, but until charging stations are as available as gas stations, or at least approaching that, I believe the transition to an electric vehicle would be a hassle.

That's the beauty of Plug in Hybrids (PHV's). You plug in and get 20-50 miles all electric and then it switches over to hybrid function once/if you surpass that. "Range Anxiety" still is a very real concern for most car buyers.

 

[woolybug25]

Up to 276,000 deposits.

I heard they had more pre orders on the first day than electric cars sold in all of 2015.

Just had lunch with a buddy of mine and he just purchased a Chevy Spark electric car. Tiny little car, looks like an economy vehicle. Nothing flashy. And only gets about 100 miles to a charge. He said you really have to have a different mindset to drive an electric because the charging stations are not terribly convenient, and even the fast charge stations require you to spend 20 minutes to an hour doing something else while your car charges. Obviously the Tesla 3 goes a lot further on a charge and is a nicer looking vehicle, but until charging stations are as available as gas stations, or at least approaching that, I believe the transition to an electric vehicle would be a hassle.

Yeah, but that will all change. 100 mile per charge cars will be dinosaurs and stations will become more prevalent. If I was a big employer with people that drive these cars, I would put a bunch of stations in and make money off of them. It's only a matter of time, you will start seeing these things everywhere.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Just had lunch with a buddy of mine and he just purchased a Chevy Spark electric car. Tiny little car, looks like an economy vehicle. Nothing flashy. And only gets about 100 miles to a charge. He said you really have to have a different mindset to drive an electric because the charging stations are not terribly convenient, and even the fast charge stations require you to spend 20 minutes to an hour doing something else while your car charges. Obviously the Tesla 3 goes a lot further on a charge and is a nicer looking vehicle, but until charging stations are as available as gas stations, or at least approaching that, I believe the transition to an electric vehicle would be a hassle.

I went through the mindset adjustment period when I bought my TDi, believe it or not. Similar situation in that 5 years ago, diesel wasn't as readily available at gas stations where I live. Truck stops, sure, but it was extremely inconvenient and in some cases, it wasn't allowed. Often times, I found myself driving on fumes trying to find a gas station that carried diesel. Thank God for "Gas Buddy." That app changed my life. Although nowadays, I don't really have to worry about it as more and more gas stations have a diesel pump.

With that said, I have to admit, I wouldn't let that be a reason you avoid Tesla. The range on them is much farther than any other EV. And they're doing a great job putting in more and more stations. I drive 120 miles a day and I wouldn't have a problem getting to and from work. You just have to rethink your driving habits and routes. *If your driving habits are beyond 250 mile ranges w/o stations, then yeah, it's a hassle.

 

[NDohio]

Just had lunch with a buddy of mine and he just purchased a Chevy Spark electric car. Tiny little car, looks like an economy vehicle. Nothing flashy. And only gets about 100 miles to a charge. He said you really have to have a different mindset to drive an electric because the charging stations are not terribly convenient, and even the fast charge stations require you to spend 20 minutes to an hour doing something else while your car charges. Obviously the Tesla 3 goes a lot further on a charge and is a nicer looking vehicle, but until charging stations are as available as gas stations, or at least approaching that, I believe the transition to an electric vehicle would be a hassle.

I would encourage him to not use the fast charge on a regular basis. Number one killer of batteries is heat and the fast charger heats the battery up at a much greater rate than the conventional charger.

 

[GoIrish41]

Thanks guys. I drive about 75 miles to and from work each day, so obviously a car that only went 100 miles on a charge would be risky if there is a possibility that I have to drive somewhere for a meeting during the day. Tesla's new model would obviously diminish that problem. I love the concept, but I'm more inclined to wait until GEN II of the vehicle so all you guys can work out all of the bugs.

 

[Monk]

Just had lunch with a buddy of mine and he just purchased a Chevy Spark electric car. Tiny little car, looks like an economy vehicle. Nothing flashy. And only gets about 100 miles to a charge. He said you really have to have a different mindset to drive an electric because the charging stations are not terribly convenient, and even the fast charge stations require you to spend 20 minutes to an hour doing something else while your car charges. Obviously the Tesla 3 goes a lot further on a charge and is a nicer looking vehicle, but until charging stations are as available as gas stations, or at least approaching that, I believe the transition to an electric vehicle would be a hassle.

Now imagine pulling up to a charging station and having to wait in line to use it. I know it will get better over time with more charging stations coming, but that will take time. I will have to wait until there is a better system/more stations. I have often times found myself in a hurry and had to put a half tank of gas in to get to my destination on time. With these vehicles not only does it take 20 minutes at best, you most likely have to go out of your way by a fair amount of time to refuel. I think it is a great stride, but I remain cautious.

 

[woolybug25]

Now imagine pulling up to a charging station and having to wait in line to use it. I know it will get better over time with more charging stations coming, but that will take time. I will have to wait until there is a better system/more stations. I have often times found myself in a hurry and had to put a half tank of gas in to get to my destination on time. With these vehicles not only does it take 20 minutes at best, you most likely have to go out of your way by a fair amount of time to refuel. I think it is a great stride, but I remain cautious.

I imagine that this isn't going to be "gas station model". That certainly hasn't been Tesla's model for their station placement. They are usually in hotel parking lots, shopping districts and downtown areas. I think it will actually end up being a real positive for drivers, as refilling our vehicles will become easier. As we wont need to go to the gas stations, they will come to us in the form of charging stations at work, shopping centers, etc.

 

[IrishLion]

This might be a super-dumb question, but is there a cost to hook up to a charger?

Is it possible that there might be in the future if they become more prevalent?

Like, in the year 2025, I'll be swiping my credit card to pay a $3 charging fee if I need to charge away from home?

 

[DillonHall]

This might be a super-dumb question, but is there a cost to hook up to a charger?

Is it possible that there might be in the future if they become more prevalent?

Like, in the year 2025, I'll be swiping my credit card to pay a $3 charging fee if I need to charge away from home?

Musk has said that they'll remain free forever.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I imagine that this isn't going to be "gas station model". That certainly hasn't been Tesla's model for their station placement. They are usually in hotel parking lots, shopping districts and downtown areas. I think it will actually end up being a real positive for drivers, as refilling our vehicles will become easier. As we wont need to go to the gas stations, they will come to us in the form of charging stations at work, shopping centers, etc.

Bingo. The car already comes to us. Why not make stations come to us as well.

This might be a super-dumb question, but is there a cost to hook up to a charger?

Is it possible that there might be in the future if they become more prevalent?

Like, in the year 2025, I'll be swiping my credit card to pay a $3 charging fee if I need to charge away from home?

Don't quote me on this but I've actually heard both. As in, some are solar powered stations that are free to users, some are free to the customer (who's shopping in their restaurant/store), some are pay stations. I honestly don't know who to believe, so I just assume it's a combination of everything.

 

[Monk]

I imagine that this isn't going to be "gas station model". That certainly hasn't been Tesla's model for their station placement. They are usually in hotel parking lots, shopping districts and downtown areas. I think it will actually end up being a real positive for drivers, as refilling our vehicles will become easier. As we wont need to go to the gas stations, they will come to us in the form of charging stations at work, shopping centers, etc.

I do agree with that as you can see them popping up in those locations already. We have quite a few in different locations around central New York including shopping centers. My concern is more finding them while you are out on the way somewhere. Maybe I am to narrow minded about this because I drive a lot for work (to and from, not during) to many different areas. I would just like to see considerably faster charge times before I put all my automobile fuel into a battery. Again I like the idea and it is the way of the future, I just need it to be more accessible to put all my eggs in one basket.

 

[GowerND11]

Musk has said that they'll remain free forever.

What's to stop a 3rd party from coming in, especially in rural areas, and charging you? (Besides a Cost/Benefit Analysis that would probably say otherwise)

 

[woolybug25]

This might be a super-dumb question, but is there a cost to hook up to a charger?

Is it possible that there might be in the future if they become more prevalent?

Like, in the year 2025, I'll be swiping my credit card to pay a $3 charging fee if I need to charge away from home?

There is the energy cost when you charge at home. I read "Assume a homeowner's marginal cost of electricity is $0.10 / kwh, it's charger is 95% efficient, and knowing that the Tesla S batteries hold 60 or 85 kwh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El... then each full charge would cost $6.30 to $8.91 ."

Musk has said that they'll remain free forever.

Free use of the Super Charge stations is a $2,000 option. It also isn't meant for regular use.

At the Tesla annual stockholders meeting, Elon Musk announced the Tesla Supercharger network is meant to provide customers with “free long distance travel forever.” He went on to say, “There are a few people who are quite aggressively using it for local Supercharging … we will sort of send them just a reminder note that it’s cool to do it occasionally, but that it’s meant to be a long-distance thing.”

How "free" is a Tesla Supercharger?

 

[woolybug25]

I do agree with that as you can see them popping up in those locations already. We have quite a few in different locations around central New York including shopping centers. My concern is more finding them while you are out on the way somewhere. Maybe I am to narrow minded about this because I drive a lot for work (to and from, not during) to many different areas. I would just like to see considerably faster charge times before I put all my automobile fuel into a battery. Again I like the idea and it is the way of the future, I just need it to be more accessible to put all my eggs in one basket.

What i'm saying is that the need to stop during lunch or on the way to work will be drastically different. It's not like you hook your car up to a gasoline drip every night and wake up with a full tank. You will be doing the charging at home, or while you are working or at dinner. The days of waiting at gas stations will be over.

What's to stop a 3rd party from coming in, especially in rural areas, and charging you? (Besides a Cost/Benefit Analysis that would probably say otherwise)

They already do. The one in my town isn't a Tesla branded model, but it works on Model S's.

 

[calvegas04]

. You will be doing the charging at home, or while you are working or at dinner. The days of waiting at gas stations will be over.

But if you are on a road trip and need a recharge a 5 min gas fill up will turn into a 30 min recharge. Unless there are larger battery options they will be offering?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

There is the energy cost when you charge at home. I read "Assume a homeowner's marginal cost of electricity is $0.10 / kwh, it's charger is 95% efficient, and knowing that the Tesla S batteries hold 60 or 85 kwh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El... then each full charge would cost $6.30 to $8.91 ."



Free use of the Super Charge stations is a $2,000 option. It also isn't meant for regular use.



How "free" is a Tesla Supercharger?

Very interesting. Had no idea about the $2000 option, nor did I know it's not meant for "every day" use. That comes off kind shoddy to me. I agree with the customer in that article. He paid the $2000, let him charge all he wants. I mean, can't they incorporate some sort of program that allows the first 50,000 miles to be Supercharged and after that, you have to start paying per use? Idk, just spit balling. I just don't agree with what Musk is saying. Why charge someone $2k and then say, oh you can't use it all the time.

 

[woolybug25]

But if you are on a road trip and need a recharge a 5 min gas fill up will turn into a 30 min recharge. Unless there are larger battery options they will be offering?

It's not the car for you if frequent road trips are the norm. But the batteries and chargers will only get better in the future.

But I feel like people are nitpicking here. I wouldn't buy an F-350 if gas prices were a concern, I wouldn't buy a Cruz if I stood 6'6" and I wouldn't buy a rear wheel drive car as my daily driver during winter. Every car has it's downside. I feel like people are acting like the need for charging makes the car worthless. Hell... take the money you are saving in gas every month and buy a damn plane ticket for your vacation.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

It's not the car for you if frequent road trips are the norm. But the batteries and chargers will only get better in the future.

But I feel like people are nitpicking here. I wouldn't buy an F-350 if gas prices were a concern, I wouldn't buy a Cruz if I stood 6'6" and I wouldn't buy a rear wheel drive car as my daily driver during winter. Every car has it's downside. I feel like people are acting like the need for charging makes the car worthless. Hell... take the money you are saving in gas every month and buy a damn plane ticket for your vacation.

Or rent a car...

 

[NDohio]

Very interesting. Had no idea about the $2000 option, nor did I know it's not meant for "every day" use. That comes off kind shoddy to me. I agree with the customer in that article. He paid the $2000, let him charge all he wants. I mean, can't they incorporate some sort of program that allows the first 50,000 miles to be Supercharged and after that, you have to start paying per use? Idk, just spit balling. I just don't agree with what Musk is saying. Why charge someone $2k and then say, oh you can't use it all the time.

The reason you cannot use the fast charge option on a regular basis is you will overheat the battery and reduce the life span of it. I am not as well versed on LI batteries, but a typical life expectancy of an industrial, lead acid battery is 6-8 years. When we do a fast charge application, the life expectancy drops to 3-4 years. Now, LI batteries have a longer life span to begin with than lead acid batteries, but the concept of heat damaging the battery is the same and it will have an adverse effect on the battery. Fast charging a battery throws a high level of energy and heat to the battery and the heat is a battery's kryptonite.

 

[Monk]

What i'm saying is that the need to stop during lunch or on the way to work will be drastically different. It's not like you hook your car up to a gasoline drip every night and wake up with a full tank. You will be doing the charging at home, or while you are working or at dinner. The days of waiting at gas stations will be over.

I fully understand what you are saying and I agree that it will most likely be this way in the future. The problem I have is it is not this way now and once you run out of your initial "home charge", it can be a major inconvenience to refuel.

How long do most people own their cars? I would say somewhere between 6-8 years (this could be off I don't know). Will we have charging stations at the majority of our work places, restaurants, and social hangouts by then? I'm just saying I would wait until we are at the stage or much closer to the stage you are talking about before I bought into that kind of fuel source.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The reason you cannot use the fast charge option on a regular basis is you will overheat the battery and reduce the life span of it. I am not as well versed on LI batteries, but a typical life expectancy of an industrial, lead acid battery is 6-8 years. When we do a fast charge application, the life expectancy drops to 3-4 years. Now, LI batteries have a longer life span to begin with than lead acid batteries, but the concept of heat damaging the battery is the same and it will have an adverse effect on the battery. Fast charging a battery throws a high level of energy and heat to the battery and the heat is a battery's kryptonite.

Ah I see. Makes sense.

Moot for me anyways. I want to have solar panels on my roof charge my car every other day or so. Long road trips, I'll just rent a car.

 

[BobbyMac]

I fully understand what you are saying and I agree that it will most likely be this way in the future. The problem I have is it is not this way now and once you run out of your initial "home charge", it can be a major inconvenience to refuel.

The bolded is the key part of your posts. At the current technology standards, it's not for you. When cars are standard with 400-500 mile range and there are charging stations in every parking lot it will make more sense for you.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Anyone have experience with the autonomous mode yet?

I have to admit, the idea bugs me out. I'm too much of a control freak. But in the event my car would drive me to work and back (60 miles one way) w/o my input is incredible. Driving is exhausting. I leave at 6AM every day. I know you're not supposed to, but it'd be hard not to fall asleep "at the wheel" and wake up when I'm ready to exit the freeway.

 

[BeauBenken]

Anyone have experience with the autonomous mode yet?

I have to admit, the idea bugs me out. I'm too much of a control freak. But in the event my car would drive me to work and back (60 miles one way) w/o my input is incredible. Driving is exhausting. I leave at 6AM every day. I know you're not supposed to, but it'd be hard not to fall asleep "at the wheel" and wake up when I'm ready to exit the freeway.

My question is how legal is falling asleep at the wheel of an autopiloted or self-driving car?

 

[calvegas04]

Anyone have experience with the autonomous mode yet?

I have to admit, the idea bugs me out. I'm too much of a control freak. But in the event my car would drive me to work and back (60 miles one way) w/o my input is incredible. Driving is exhausting. I leave at 6AM every day. I know you're not supposed to, but it'd be hard not to fall asleep "at the wheel" and wake up when I'm ready to exit the freeway.

would be great after a long night at the bar

 

[BobbyMac]

would be great after a long night at the bar

Think about how much money will be sucked out of the DUI / Speeding industry. Fines/court costs/counseling/probation/enforcement. That's a lot of money these tech geeks are going to rob from the machine. We'll have to raise taxes for sure.

 

[GowerND11]

would be great after a long night at the bar

Think about how much money will be sucked out of the DUI / Speeding industry. Fines/court costs/counseling/probation/enforcement. That's a lot of money these tech geeks are going to rob from the machine. We'll have to raise taxes for sure.

Technically speaking, I'm sure there would be some reaction by law enforcement with autonomous driving. You're still "operating a motor vehicle." DUI checkpoints would still nab someone, and I'm sure they will still watch people leaving the bar, and attempt to pull them over for a minor offence.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Think about how much money will be sucked out of the DUI / Speeding industry. Fines/court costs/counseling/probation/enforcement. That's a lot of money these tech geeks are going to rob from the machine. We'll have to raise taxes for sure.

I think I read once that it's >$5 billion annually. It could be huge.

Speaking of raising taxes, what do they do with the gas tax at that point? Every car Tesla puts on the road is a car that isn't paying the gas tax, which is already irresponsibly low.

Then there are the effects of autonomous Uber fleets decimating the number of cars per person (or family) in major gridlocked cities like Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, San Fransisco, Seattle, etc. There is no doubt graphs like these keep automobile execs up at night, responsible governments should be keeping their eyes on it too. Infrastructure needs to be maintained, Tesla and autonomous driving are going to change everything.

 

[BobbyMac]

I think I read once that it's >$5 billion annually. It could be huge.

Speaking of raising taxes, what do they do with the gas tax at that point? Every car Tesla puts on the road is a car that isn't paying the gas tax, which is already irresponsibly low.

Then there are the effects of autonomous Uber fleets decimating the number of cars per person (or family) in major gridlocked cities like Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, San Fransisco, Seattle, etc. There is no doubt graphs like these keep automobile execs up at night, responsible governments should be keeping there eye on it too. Infrastructure needs to be maintained, Tesla and autonomous driving are going to change everything.

They need to collect the equivalent tax % on kW's that pass through car chargers.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I think they'll probably just switch to taxing the odometer.

But a good chunk of a state's taxes come from license plate/registration fees, so they'll have to recoup that lost revenue too.

Then they'll have to see how that affects driving mileage when fewer people have to shoulder the burden of the highways...