Superconferences & Realignment

[phork]

Why does everyone hate the big 10? Just wondering?

No one really hates the BIG per se. My reasons are if you join the BIG you are voting for regionalizing your team. You now become a full fledged card carrying member of the MidWest.

I think this whole thing sucks....... Notre Dame not an independent?! Our whole football history rose from that independence, it allowed Notre Dame to barnstorm the country, almost at will.

Being in North Carolina, I'm wondering what happens when the NBC contract runs out. I guess I'll have to buy some cable package to see a lot of the games.

Oh, the ACC isn't going to collapse. It was always a basketball conference first. Losing FSU and Clemson (if true) just eliminates a couple of play in games in the ACC tournament which was rendered irrelevant years ago when the NCAA tournament expanded.

Had Fielding Yost not hated Catholics we would have been in the BIG a long time ago. While independence is nice, its just another tradition that has died along the roadside of this collegiate sports apocalypse. Along with the bowls, 2 polls and 2 NCs, etc etc.

Move along at the time of the great rendering and secure your place, or be cast off like so much chaff and end up being Harvard of the Midwest.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Had Fielding Yost not hated Catholics we would have been in the BIG a long time ago. While independence is nice, its just another tradition that has died along the roadside of this collegiate sports apocalypse. Along with the bowls, 2 polls and 2 NCs, etc etc.

Move along at the time of the great rendering and secure your place, or be cast off like so much chaff and end up being Harvard of the Midwest.

Speaking of Yost, this was just posted today:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7954463/hate-fueled-football-great-rivalries

 

[stlnd01]

Move along at the time of the great rendering and secure your place, or be cast off like so much chaff and end up being Harvard of the Midwest.

Harvard's a pretty damn good school.

 

[phork]

Harvard's a pretty damn good school.

Its a great school, one of the best in the world. Their football team can't compete with some Texas HighSchool teams, however.

 

[pumpdog20]

I have always wanted the Big Ten, mostly because I would love for them to bring back their wrestling team and ND traditionally is working class/blue collar midwest tough. I don't see our recruiting in TX/FL getting better with a move to the Big 12. If we're afraid of being regionalized, we would still have the pipeline to California, and the Big Ten would need an additional team or 3 which could include VT, Clemson (South Carolina is an underrated hotbed for recruiting) or GT.

 

[felkey72]

I am sorry but no matter what conference we end up joining Notre Dame will always be a national brand. So I say join the Big Ten makes the most since economically geographically, and academically. Hell we play a lot of the teams already, so we can play USC and Stanford or Boston College, and some cupcake. I do not see us playing Navy for too much longer they will be joining the Big East in 2014 and to be honest when we leave no team in that league will want to play us since "we killed the conference for not joining". Where ever there is a strong Catholic base Notre Dame will be the team.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Thought we had a lifetime contract with Navy

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[condoms SUCk]

I like the B12 move more than the ACC...B1G forget about it, I don’t think that will ever happen.
I would like to keep the U$C, Navy, scUM and either Mich St/Purdue games. Now I think the best would be to play U$C and Navy every year and rotate the scUM and Mich St/Purdue games. i.e. Year A-OCC Navy, U$C, scUM. Year B-OCC Navy, U$C, Mich St./Purdue.n

 

[Downinthebend]

Thought we had a lifetime contract with Navy

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

Isn't it like a 50 year contract?

 

[greyhammer90]

I am sorry but no matter what conference we end up joining Notre Dame will always be a national brand. So I say join the Big Ten makes the most since economically geographically, and academically. Hell we play a lot of the teams already, so we can play USC and Stanford or Boston College, and some cupcake. I do not see us playing Navy for too much longer they will be joining the Big East in 2014 and to be honest when we leave no team in that league will want to play us since "we killed the conference for not joining". Where ever there is a strong Catholic base Notre Dame will be the team.

Navy will have to turn ND down for us to ever stop playing. If they do that, they're stupid. ND will not, and should not, ever put themselves into position where they need to end the Navy series. We all know why.

 

[Wolverine1997]

I just don't see the appeal of the Big 12 for ND, but that's just me. I mean, I can't see ND fans getting up on Saturday and saying "Oh man, I can't wait until we beat Baylor bad!"

But I can see you guys getting a little extra energy out of crap games, by playing in-state teams like purdue and IU.

Just the rivalries already there and the potential ones with ohio, wisconsin, penn state, iowa, nebraska etc. should be too good to pass up. Plus not only would you get your NBC deal for home football, you would get coverage by the BTN, and would get basketball, baseball, hockey, lacrosse and so on covered live.

Also with the B1G/PAC-12 challenge instituted to begin in the 2017 season, ND would not only get their OOC game with SC, but probably a rotating series with UCLA & Stanford.

 

[clashmore_mike]

I don't think ND/Ohio will ever be a big rivalry as I don't see ND ever playing in Athens.

 

[FLDomer]

I think the word you're looking for is "their".

The B1G can survive without ND, it has since it's creation. I would like to see ND come to the B1G, so they don't **** all over their rivalries with Michigan, purdue, state and BC.

To me, joining the ACC or hoping to join it right now, would be like wanting to take a nap in a burning building. If FSU leaves, the avalanche begins.

Thanks for the grammer correction, I guess I can blame those Michigan Public Schools. (Not annoying or pretentious at all)

I never said the Big 10 (I'm assuming thats what you were referring to with B-1-G...tisk tisk, grammer ) wouldn't survive without ND, and I don't see ND joining the ACC unless FSU was to stay and I don't see ND joining any conference for a while and hopefully not ever. If ND goes to the Big 12 or ACC I would prefer that over the Big 10, but just my opinion.

One other thing, if ND joined the ACC, how would that be sh!tting on their rivalry with BC? Is BC joing the Big 10?

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Joining a new Big 12 would further expand our base in Florida and Texas. As long as we keep the rivalry with SC we really lose nothing from a national brand perspective. The only sports that would potentially suffer would be hockey and lax but we already have separate setups for those sports today. The last thing I want is to give Delany the satisfaction and join the B1G.

 

[BaylorIrish]

I would love to see the Reformation Rumble of Baptists vs. Catholics.

Would be very tough on my family being Irish Catholics and idolizing ND growing up, but ultimately attending Baylor.

 

[Cali_domer]

I would love to see the Reformation Rumble of Baptists vs. Catholics.

Would be very tough on my family being Irish Catholics and idolizing ND growing up, but ultimately attending Baylor.

And start a mission fund before every game....Really would be cool.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Can we stop talking about the ACC as an option? The cannibalization of that league is apparently imminent. I see the Big XII as the best, and really the only, choice for ND. The only thing left to figure out is how long we will be able to maintain football independence after we bring the other sports over, and how many OOC games will be on the schedule. If there are only two, then USC and Navy will be the two. If there are more, it will be interesting to see what direction that goes in.

 

[ND NYC]

the whole lot of em are gonna be sitting in front of a congressional panel soon

 

[tadman95]

the whole lot of em are gonna be sitting in front of a congressional panel soon

Probably since they (congress) seemed to have fixed all of the other issues in the country. LOL

I'm still struggling with how the NCAA will fit in with this. As an institution they can't let 64 schools dictate the football world for all of the other members. Does the NCAA get out of the football business or just regulate the the other divisions? I can't see that happening, can you guys?

It just seems to me that this "superconference" idea has gone beyond what is really possible in dictating who is eligible to play for National Championship.

Can anyone explain how this work?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm still struggling with how the NCAA will fit in with this. As an institution they can't let 64 schools dictate the football world for all of the other members. Does the NCAA get out of the football business or just regulate the the other divisions? I can't see that happening, can you guys?

The NCAA is a reflection of its member schools. We often complain about the NCAA's lack credibility/ teeth when it comes to enforcing the rules, but it's the universities that are maintaining the status quo.

The rich powerful football schools are holding all the cards. The NCAA has no power over them whatsoever that they don't voluntarily allow. If the superconferences decided to write their own rules and provide independent enforcement mechanisms, they could easily do it. Part of me hopes they do, because it's likely the only plausible scenario for seeing sensible rules with real enforcement behind them.

It's not certain to happen, but it could. Either way, if the football powers decide to tell the NCAA to f*ck off, they can do it.

 

[tadman95]

The NCAA is a reflection of its member schools. We often complain about the NCAA's lack credibility/ teeth when it comes to enforcing the rules, but it's the universities that are maintaining the status quo.

The rich powerful football schools are holding all the cards. The NCAA has no power over them whatsoever that they don't voluntarily allow. If the superconferences decided to write their own rules and provide independent enforcement mechanisms, they could easily do it. Part of me hopes they do, because it's likely the only plausible scenario for seeing sensible rules with real enforcement behind them.

It's not certain to happen, but it could. Either way, if the football powers decide to tell the NCAA to f*ck off, they can do it.

Ok. But then what's the next step. If these 64 teams said f*ck off NCAA, couldn't the NCAA reciprocate the love and say here's all of your sports back. We'll just move on. Then we just have a p*ssing contest and a bunch of law suits.

I'm just having a hard time with the concept that the university Presidents and Trustees of these 64 schools would take that step to blow everything up. That's a pretty big nuclear card to play.

 

[phork]

The Universities have chosen to allow the NCAA to be the governing body. If they so choose they can tell them to pound salt, bring in their own officiating crews and rules. There isn't a damn thing the NCAA can do about it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Ok. But then what's the next step. If these 64 teams said f*ck off NCAA, couldn't the NCAA reciprocate the love and say here's all of your sports back. We'll just move on. Then we just have a p*ssing contest and a bunch of law suits.

I'm just having a hard time with the concept that the university Presidents and Trustees of these 64 schools would take that step to blow everything up. That's a pretty big nuclear card to play.

Not necessarily. The NCAA does a fine job of regulating non-revenue sports, and there's no reason to believe anyone wants to change that arrangement. It would simply be a public recognition of what everyone has known for a long time-- the NCAA is not well-suited to regulating revenue sports. So if the ~64 schools with profitable football programs decide to remove those from the NCAA's purview, it's not really a nuclear option.

Again, this isn't guaranteed to happen, but it would make a lot of sense. The driving force behind superconferences is separating the haves from the have nots, so it wouldn't surprise me if they separated completely by forming their own governing body as well.

 

[Redbar]

Not necessarily. The driving force behind superconferences is separating the haves from the have nots...

To what end? The haves- already have so why should they care, and the have nots don't want to be shut out for good. The driving force behind superconferences is MORE. Some people would say it's human nature to always want more than you have even when you already have a lot. If it is in fact human nature, it certainly is not one that should be cultivated and institutionalized. While it may be a helpful motivator, it shouldn't be the central principle to survival because truth is not everyone can have.
Why take a snapshot now? I remember when FSU was playing teams like Tulane and Troy State, nobody had even heard of Miami or Boise State and Army and Navy were teams to be reckoned with. So why right now in 2012 should we presume to decide who can have and who can't. The only thing more distasteful to me than infinite greed is presumptive self righteousness.

Maybe we should ask why the NCAA does such a good job regulating non revenue sports and such a crummy job regulating revenue sports. Could there be a disruptive and corrupting element in one or the other? Maybe the only way to deal with that disruptive and corruptive element is through a more formidable and independent police force.

 

[ND NYC]

anyone have any stats on the finacial condition of NCAA member schools?

guy on sirius radio (think i heard this right) said this morning that only like 15% of all NCAA member schools athletic departmets are making any money. (in the black)

the rest are losing money on their programs.

is their a list?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

To what end? The haves- already have so why should they care, and the have nots don't want to be shut out for good.

Those who control the profitable product-- elite football schools-- are leaving tons of revenue on the table for others who aren't offering any value. The bowls are taking a huge chunk, both upfront and by precluding a hugely profitable playoff, and unprofitable football programs in the weaker conferences are taking an equal share of TV revenue.

In other words, the "haves" aren't even close to fully harnessing their current market power. That's what these moves are about.

Why take a snapshot now? I remember when FSU was playing teams like Tulane and Troy State, nobody had even heard of Miami or Boise State and Army and Navy were teams to be reckoned with. So why right now in 2012 should we presume to decide who can have and who can't.

CFB wasn't a billion dollar industry back then.

Maybe we should ask why the NCAA does such a good job regulating non revenue sports and such a crummy job regulating revenue sports.

Because the current regime was designed to regulate non-revenue sports, not billion dollar semi-professional leagues.

Maybe the only way to deal with that disruptive and corruptive element is through a more formidable and independent police force.

I'm optimistic that governance will improve once the revenue sports are separated from the non-revenue sports. Trying to govern them both under the same regime is a primary cause behind many of CFB current problems. But the last thing I want to see is CFB handed over to a "Sports Czar" in Washington.

 

[STLDomer]

This sounds beautiful: Greg Swaim – Who Joins the Big 12 and SEC?

Notre Dame – Obviousy the Big 12 (and everyone else) want the Irish, but the Big 12 can offer them something few can…their own TV deal. From everything we’re hearing today, expect the Irish to join the Big 12 in all non-football sports in the near future, and then football later. However, they very well may be playing half the teams in the conference in football, allowing them to also keep their traditional rivalries with USC, Stanford, Navy, Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue until the time they would become full Big 12 members in all sports.

 

[STLDomer]

.

 

[ND NYC]

who is this swaim...and is he credible?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Texas AD not for expanding, but admits courting Notre Dame.