[Super Bowl XLIX] vBook: New England vs. Seattle

[IrishLax]

Not defending Carroll, and not sure if this has been discussed in the thread, but I heard a great point on the radio this morning. With about 25 seconds left and one timeout, what happens if Lynch is stuffed on the 2nd down run? Seahawks have to use their last timeout, right? What do you do on 3rd and 4th down with no timeouts and less than 20 seconds to play?

By throwing it on 2nd down and preserving the timeout, the Seahawks gave themselves the option to run or pass on 3rd and 4th down.

This is correct,. The Seahawks should've been snapping the ball early in the play clock. They got mind-fucked by Belichick not taking a timeout to save clock... they're standing around doing nothing for awhile assuming Hoodie is going to take a T and they'll be able to huddle up. Huge mistake.

 

[irishfan]

Average age of Patriots player is 25.2. Youngest team to ever win it.

 

[NDWorld247]

This is correct,. The Seahawks should've been snapping the ball early in the play clock. They got mind-fucked by Belichick not taking a timeout to save clock... they're standing around doing nothing for awhile assuming Hoodie is going to take a T and they'll be able to huddle up. Huge mistake.

I couldn't believe Bill didn't call a timeout. Was at a friend's house, obviously pro-NE crowd, and everyone is yelling at the TV while I just stood there in shock.

 

[bkess8]

Not defending Carroll, and not sure if this has been discussed in the thread, but I heard a great point on the radio this morning. With about 25 seconds left and one timeout, what happens if Lynch is stuffed on the 2nd down run? Seahawks have to use their last timeout, right? What do you do on 3rd and 4th down with no timeouts and less than 20 seconds to play?

By throwing it on 2nd down and preserving the timeout, the Seahawks gave themselves the option to run or pass on 3rd and 4th down.

Ok but what about a play action pass? The Seahawks do not have great WRs so why not use some deception to assist them? Or use Matthews and throw it up to him where its either a TD or an incompletion. Just don't agree with the play call especially when Lynch just carried defenders for 4 yards the play before.

 

[NDWorld247]

Ok but what about a play action pass? The Seahawks do not have great WRs so why not use some deception to assist them? Or use Matthews and throw it up to him where its either a TD or an incompletion. Just don't agree with the play call especially when Lynch just carried defenders for 4 yards the play before.

Yea, I agree with you. Going into the game I was worried about three things:

1. Lynch
2. Wilson scrambling away from pressure and making plays
3. Play action passing

The one thing I wasn't worried about: Wilson dropping back and beating us from the pocket.

A play action pass with a rollout would have been a much better call. How does NE defend that from the 1-yard line? And, worst case, he throws it away and still has two plays from the 1yd line with a timeout.

 

[bkess8]

Yea, I agree with you. Going into the game I was worried about three things:

1. Lynch
2. Wilson scrambling away from pressure and making plays
3. Play action passing

The one thing I wasn't worried about: Wilson dropping back and beating us from the pocket.

A play action pass with a rollout would have been a much better call. How does NE defend that from the 1-yard line? And, worst case, he throws it away and still has two plays from the 1yd line with a timeout.

As a coach you should put your team in the best position to win and Carroll didn't do that!

 

[woolybug25]

Not defending Carroll, and not sure if this has been discussed in the thread, but I heard a great point on the radio this morning. With about 25 seconds left and one timeout, what happens if Lynch is stuffed on the 2nd down run? Seahawks have to use their last timeout, right? What do you do on 3rd and 4th down with no timeouts and less than 20 seconds to play?

By throwing it on 2nd down and preserving the timeout, the Seahawks gave themselves the option to run or pass on 3rd and 4th down.

I still would have ran it. They probably wouldn't have had time for two more plays anyways. If they passed on second down, and they did end up having time for one final play, then it wouldn't matter if they had a time out left.

Finally, regardless of pass vs run, don't throw it in the middle of the field in traffic on 1st and goal on the 1. I wouldn't do that on the goal line regardless of game situation.

 

[NDWorld247]

I still would have ran it. They probably wouldn't have had time for two more plays anyways. If they passed on second down, and they did end up having time for one final play, then it wouldn't matter if they had a time out left.

Finally, regardless of pass vs run, don't throw it in the middle of the field in traffic on 1st and goal on the 1. I wouldn't do that on the goal line regardless of game situation.

With 26 seconds left and a timeout, they absolutely had time for three plays. The only way they don't have time for three plays is if they run (call timeout) and run again.

So, you can either run, call timeout and pass on 3rd and 4th down....OR, pass on 2nd down and have the run/pass option on both 3rd and 4th down.

 

[BobD]

I'm just glad they passed best decision Carroll has ever made!

 

[palinurus]

Interesting stat from Grantland:

I still would have ran it. They probably wouldn't have had time for two more plays anyways. If they passed on second down, and they did end up having time for one final play, then it wouldn't matter if they had a time out left.

Finally, regardless of pass vs run, don't throw it in the middle of the field in traffic on 1st and goal on the 1. I wouldn't do that on the goal line regardless of game situation.

This is all true, I think. If you've got to pass (you don't), throw some timing pass to the back corner.

(As long as you aren't playing that shut down So. Fla secondary, you should be fine.)

 

[ND NYC]

Super Bowl Wrap-up: What Was Pete Carroll Thinking? «

pretty insightful article on how things played out late.

worth reading to the end.

 

[Ndaccountant]

 

[Whiskeyjack]

On another note, considering I was rooting for a meteor to take out the stadium so neither of these horrid teams could win, this was an excellent game. One of the best games played all season, imo. I'll definitely remember this SB for a long time.

My only interest in the NFL is to see ND alumni do well, so I didn't really have a dog in this fight. Couldn't figure out who to root for (against is probably more accurate). Ultimately settled on rooting against Pete the Cheat. And since he's now being blamed (fairly or not) for having lost the game via "the worst playcall of all time"... I am thoroughly satisfied with the outcome.

Average age of Patriots player is 25.2. Youngest team to ever win it.

I also read somewhere that the Pats are by far the whitest team in the league (by a significant margin). Will be interesting to see if a mainstream sports writer is willing to analyze that angle.

 

[wizards8507]

I also read somewhere that the Pats are by far the whitest team in the league (by a significant margin). Will be interesting to see if a mainstream sports writer is willing to analyze that angle.

Why don't you take a stab at it?

ETA: Apparently the Eagles are the whitest by active roster. Maybe your source was referring to starting lineup?

Census shows the Philadelphia Eagles are the whitest team in the NFL | Philadelphia Eagles

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Why don't you take a stab at it?

ETA: Apparently the Eagles are the whitest by active roster. Maybe your source was referring to starting lineup?

Census shows the Philadelphia Eagles are the whitest team in the NFL | Philadelphia Eagles

I'm no expert on racial genetic variation, so I'll pass. Especially since your brief research on the subject indicates that the source I read earlier was mistaken. I only mentioned it since it seems like this Pats team was a statistical outlier in several respects.

 

[wizards8507]

Just for Wooly:

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[Rhode Irish]

I'm no expert on racial genetic variation, so I'll pass. Especially since your brief research on the subject indicates that the source I read earlier was mistaken. I only mentioned it since it seems like this Pats team was a statistical outlier in several respects.

Not that this even matters, but FWIW the Patriots starting offense is very "white" by league standards since its whole starting line is white, two of its top three wide receivers are white and their top TE and FB are white. Usually out of those 10 positions, you'd have more than one african american player. On the other hand, they only have two white defensive players on the roster, which is probably abnormally low. Admittedly I am not an expert in racial composition of NFL rosters and have never thought about this before right now, but it is my perception that they are whiter on offense and less white on defense and overall probably league average.

 

[tussin]

Just for Wooly:

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Is that your truck parked in the back?

 

[Bubbles]

Not sure what you guys are talking about....colts look even whiter to me:

vs

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Not that this even matters, but FWIW the Patriots starting offense is very "white" by league standards since its whole starting line is white, two of its top three wide receivers are white and their top TE and FB are white. Usually out of those 10 positions, you'd have more than one african american player. On the other hand, they only have two white defensive players on the roster, which is probably abnormally low. Admittedly I am not an expert in racial composition of NFL rosters and have never thought about this before right now, but it is my perception that they are whiter on offense and less white on defense and overall probably league average.

Now that you mention it, the piece I read earlier was only addressing their offense. But I feel like we're summoning the ghost of NJNP here, so let's just move on.

 

[greyhammer90]

As soon as I figure out how this conversation is racist I'm going to raise one hell of a stink.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

As soon as I figure out how this conversation is racist I'm going to raise one hell of a stink.

It's not, but I don't see much value in it at this point, so I'd rather just drop it before someone inevitably takes offense.

 

[woolybug25]

This is correct,. The Seahawks should've been snapping the ball early in the play clock. They got mind-fucked by Belichick not taking a timeout to save clock... they're standing around doing nothing for awhile assuming Hoodie is going to take a T and they'll be able to huddle up. Huge mistake.

This is what I was thinking. I couldn't believe that he wasn't taking a timeout, or hell, letting them in the endzone so he would have more time for a drive. It just kept ticking... and ticking... and I thought he was insane.

Then Petey completely shit the bed... damn, Beliceck is a baller.

 

[greyhammer90]

It's not, but I don't see much value in it at this point, so I'd rather just drop it before someone inevitably takes offense.

Why is the default text color black on this site? Seems pretty racist.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Why is the default text color black on this site? Seems pretty racist.

Set against a monolithic white background! Perhaps IE's defaults offer an implicit critique of American cultural imperialism?

 

[ND NYC]

This is what I was thinking. I couldn't believe that he wasn't taking a timeout, or hell, letting them in the endzone so he would have more time for a drive. It just kept ticking... and ticking... and I thought he was insane.

Then Petey completely shit the bed... damn, Beliceck is a baller.

not calling a timeout was a Jedi mind trick of the highest order.

hoodie wearing obi wan would be proud

 

[Rhode Irish]

This is what I was thinking. I couldn't believe that he wasn't taking a timeout, or hell, letting them in the endzone so he would have more time for a drive. It just kept ticking... and ticking... and I thought he was insane.

Then Petey completely shit the bed... damn, Beliceck is a baller.

Speculation in NE today (well-sourced speculation, FWIW) is that if Seattle had ran the ball on that 2nd down play and not thrown it, the Patriots would have let them walk into the endzone. They would have had ~23 seconds and two timeouts to get into FG range to tie the game, which would have been feasible.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

SBNation's Ryan Nanni just published "A SUPER BOWL LETTER FROM JIM HARBAUGH":

TO AN OLD FRIEND IN NEED OF COMFORT

Dear Coach Carroll,

As I watched the end of last night's Super Bowl, I felt I needed to reach out to you one last time, since we won't be coaching opposite one another next year. We've had our differences, I know. You kept me from getting back to the Super Bowl and beating John Fox, the broken solar calculator with teeth. And I hung 55 on you in the Coliseum to help send you to the Emerald Bowl against Boston College. (Hey, at least you beat them. That's not a guarantee these days at USC.) But I don't want to reopen old wounds. I just want to share a story I hope you'll find inspirational going forward.

Have I ever told you about the Christmas rope?

See, on Christmas morning, Mom would bundle John and me up in coats and hats and galoshes. She'd give us each a small cup of cocoa and send us out to the driveway, where Dad was waiting. He'd put the two of us back to back, and then he'd bind us together around the waist with a thick length of rope he only used for this occasion. Then we'd wait and sip our cocoa while he ducked into the garage to bring out two presents: the thing I wanted most that year, and the thing John wanted most that year.

See, Dad didn't want to spoil us, but he believed in precision. So when I say he brought out what I wanted most, I mean exactly that - if it was a bike, it was just the color and style you wanted and already had a little license plate that said "JIMMY" on the back.

Anyways, he'd take the two presents and put mine a yard away from me and John's a yard away from him. Mom took our cocoa mugs away, and then Dad blew the whistle. And we'd start pulling, because the Christmas rope only had one rule: first one to get to his present got to keep it.

Now, you're probably thinking, why not agree ahead of time to alternate winners or ask for presents you could both enjoy? What you don't understand is that, after a couple of years, it stops being about the presents at all. You just want to see the sorrow in your brother's face as you take that damn yard from him. The Virgin Mary herself could have shown up with Baby Jesus and asked nicely for a yard and I'd still tell her to put on the rope and earn it.

Was this a cruel way for a father to approach the holidays? Maybe. But I sure as sh!t wouldn't just give away my last yard on some dumbf*ck slant route, you tai chi dipsh!t.

Merry Christmas.

Missing you already,

Coach Jim Harbaugh

P.S. At least you didn't lose to Tavita Pritchard again.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

 

[IrishSteelhead]

They're pathetic. And they go on and on about this "twelfth man" bullshit and how they have the greatest fans in sports.

Seattle fans said this was the most devastating loss in their franchise's 10 year history.