Rumored Violations

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MNIrishman

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Who's this Mendoza guy and why do we care?

Addressed a few pages back. Tom Mendoza of the Mendoza School of Business. We care because he's a rich, powerful, smart alumnus who's on the side of getting things done in a rational and expedient way. Unlike most of us, he might actually be able to influence someone.
 

PANDFAN

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>I feel that once the investigation ended speed and fairness is what they owed these students.</p>— Tom Mendoza (@TomMendozaTalks) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomMendozaTalks/statuses/506851567505788930">September 2, 2014</a></blockquote>
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GoIrish41

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>BK says no change on suspended 5. Hard to understand why they can't deliver decision by now.</p>— Tom Mendoza (@TomMendozaTalks) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomMendozaTalks/statuses/506844685781204992">September 2, 2014</a></blockquote>
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This is the crux of it. There is a process. The process must be followed. But all evidence gathering was done last week.

If these people can't be bothered to set up hearings last Friday... much less this Monday, Tuesday, etc. that's really ridiculous.

Did BK say that he can't understand why the decision wasn't made by now or was that the tweet author editorializing?
 

OCIrish

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This is probably the only thing I'll add in this thread that pertains to not derailing it......it doesn't sound good to me when big time alumnus, and donors to the University take to social media to, I don't want to say hammer the school, but to me, that's what it feels like Mendoza is doing.

Now I'll get back to doing my best to derail, when I can.
 

wizards8507

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images

Addressed a few pages back. Tom Mendoza of the Mendoza School of Business. We care because he's a rich, powerful, smart alumnus who's on the side of getting things done in a rational and expedient way. Unlike most of us, he might actually be able to influence someone.

I'm 95% sure you're trolling. Didn't you graduate from the school with his freaking name on it?

I thought the italics were implied. My desk:

i5wMRTr.jpg
 

ND NYC

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2. The chair of the Honesty Committee, in consultation with the faculty member assigned to investigate the report (if this person is different from the chair), has the authority to decide whether there is sufficient evidence to warrant an Honesty Committee hearing. A hearing is warranted whenever there is reason to believe that academic dishonesty (whether major or minor) might have occurred. After reviewing the case, the chair of the Honesty Committee has two options:a) He or she may decide that there is not sufficient evidence of major or minor academic dishonesty to warrant a hearing. If the chair reaches this decision, he or she shall so notify the student suspected of a violation, the instructor and the reporting student(s) (if any), and shall destroy all records related to the case.

b) The chair may decide that a hearing would be warranted. If the report of a possible violation was submitted by anyone other than the instructor in the course, the chair informs the instructor both of the report and of the evidence and asks the instructor if he or she wishes to contact the student to see if the case can be settled via an Honor Code Violation Report (see V.D. above). If the instructor declines to do so, the chair will then write a letter to the student(s) suspected of the violation. The letter shall describe the possible violation, state the known evidence (including witnesses and documents involved, if any), and state the time and place of the hearing. The letter shall also inform the student(s) under suspicion that [B]he or she can bring to the hearing members of the University community for support and/or to serve as witnesses[/B].

KVR should get Frank Slade to attend his hearing with him...
 

Domina Nostra

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Personally, I see no reason for patience once a thorough investigation has been completed. These guys are different than your average student because so many people are depending on them. Should they get different substantive treatment, absolutely not. Is it unfair to speed up the process because they have different responsibilities--absolutely.
 

wizards8507

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Personally, I see no reason for patience once a thorough investigation has been completed.
"...the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate crime and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders."

There's a "passing of the baton" that needs to happen between those who do the investigating and those who issue verdicts and punishment.
 

Jackalope1977

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"...the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate crime and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders."

There's a "passing of the baton" that needs to happen between those who do the investigating and those who issue verdicts and punishment.


So we're waiting on Sam Waterston?
 

Domina Nostra

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"...the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate crime and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders."

There's a "passing of the baton" that needs to happen between those who do the investigating and those who issue verdicts and punishment.

There is a huge difference between: (1) the amount of time things can get done by motivated people in a bind, and (2) the speed things appropriately get done by hard working people who have lives to live outside of the day's issues.

I think that the amount of time they are taking is reasonable for an average student, but should be expedited because the situation dictates it. At least if the evidence points to no involvement or lesser culpability.

For the kids who look guilty of a serious offense, expediting the process might not make sense.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Even if they are allowed back, they gone.

Uh, what? If the Honesty Committee clears them, thereby making them available for the Michigan game, you can't honestly believe they'll say, "No thanks. We're going to sit this year out and transfer immediately."
 
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DomerInHappyValley

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Uh, what? If the Honesty Committee clears them, thereby making them available for the Michigan game, you can't honestly believe they'll say, "No thanks. We're going to sit this year out and transfer immediately."

You think any of them are gonna stick around after the season?
 

connor_in

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IE Tuesday afternoon drinking game...go back through this thread one post at a time and do a shot every time you see the word "process"
 

Whiskeyjack

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You think any of them are gonna stick around after the season?

If Williams plays this year, he's out of eligibility. Many were surprised that Daniels returned this year, so the odds that he was going to return in 2015 were already low before this incident. I think Russell is the only one who might have stuck around for another year. And who knows? He might still.
 

ND NYC

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does anyone know the makeup of this ruling council deciding on the fates of these guys?
how many make up the council?
where are they from? (students, faculty, admissions)
do they each have an equal vote? does a majority decide? (ie like a SCOTUS where a 5-4 ruling is all you need)

not looking for names or anything like tha---just trying to picture "who is in the room" when players "make their case"
 

kmoose

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Personally, I see no reason for patience once a thorough investigation has been completed.

What if they are guilty, and the delay is to allow sufficient time to brainstorm what punishment is fair?


These guys are different than your average student because so many people are depending on them.

Who is depending on them for what? The 80 other scholarship football players? I wouldn't really consider that a large number of people, depending on them. How many regular students go through this process, and maybe have to miss group projects where other students were counting on them to contribute?

Should they get different substantive treatment, absolutely not. Is it unfair to speed up the process because they have different responsibilities--absolutely.

As much as I want to agree with this, the argument can certainly be made, that bypassing the normal procedures, just so that this guy can return to his extracurricular activity, while others may not be afforded the same treatment, constitutes a "substantive" benefit, for one group of students over others.
 

wizards8507

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At least if the evidence points to no involvement or lesser culpability.
I know not everyone can read every thread in its entirety, but this has been addressed. If evidence pointed to no involvement, the investigation would be dropped, the hearings cancelled, and players immediately reinstated. The fact that they're going to hearings means that the assumption of many here that any or all of the players are "clearly innocent" is false. The process does NOT require a hearing if there is no evidence to back one up.

Again, they would be well within standard honesty investigation procedures to abandon the entire thing if there was no evidence to be weighed by the committee.
 

Wingman Ray

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Uh, what? If the Honesty Committee clears them, thereby making them available for the Michigan game, you can't honestly believe they'll say, "No thanks. We're going to sit this year out and transfer immediately."

What I cant understand is why couldnt they practice with the team while this is pending? I can understand not playing due to possible vacate wins but why not practice? Say this goes on another week...thats 4 weeks non practice. They wont be ready to play within a week. Might as well scratch them for half the season. Thats BS and a complete injustice if they are found innocent.
 

wizards8507

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does anyone know the makeup of this ruling council deciding on the fates of these guys?
how many make up the council?
where are they from? (students, faculty, admissions)
do they each have an equal vote? does a majority decide? (ie like a SCOTUS where a 5-4 ruling is all you need)

not looking for names or anything like tha---just trying to picture "who is in the room" when players "make their case"
A. Composition of Honesty Committees

A college or school may set up honesty committees at either the departmental or college level. The dean shall see that appropriate structures are established. In all Honesty Committees, students must constitute the majority of members. Two options are available:

Departmental Honesty Committee:
Each department within the college establishes a standing Departmental Honesty Committee. The department chair appoints one faculty member from the department as chair of the Honesty Committee, a second faculty member from the department to serve on the Committee and normally three students (one of whom may be a graduate student) to serve on the Committee.

College Honesty Committee:
A single standing honesty committee is established for a college or school, and is called the College Honesty Committee. The dean appoints a faculty member from the college as chair of the Honesty Committee, a second faculty member of the college to serve on the Committee, and normally three students (one of whom may be a graduate student) to serve on the Committee.

To bring greater continuity and consistency to Honesty Committee deliberations and decisions over the years, it is recommended that one or more student members of the Committee each year not be in their final year of studies at Notre Dame. If a graduate student is included, the appointment of an undergraduate senior and an underclassman may be optimal. A dean or department chair may, with the approval of the Associate Provost who co-chairs the University Code of Honor Committee, compose the college or department committee, respectively, in a manner other than that described above, provided that the committee is chaired by a faculty member of the college and the majority of its members are students.

...

After deliberation, the Committee decides, by a majority vote, whether the evidence supports a finding that the student under suspicion violated the honor code or whether the evidence does not support such finding, in which case the charges are dismissed. The standard for finding a student responsible is that the evidence is clear and convincing, meaning that it is far more reasonable to conclude that the violation did occur than it didn’t.
 

Emcee77

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What I cant understand is why couldnt they practice with the team while this is pending? I can understand not playing due to possible vacate wins but why not practice? Say this goes on another week...thats 4 weeks non practice. They wont be ready to play within a week. Might as well scratch them for half the season. Thats BS and a complete injustice if they are found innocent.

I've been wondering this too. There's probably a simple answer, but why isn't holding them out of games enough?
 

kmoose

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You think any of them are gonna stick around after the season?

If it means the difference between being drafted in the 5th or 6th round (this coming year), versus coming back and improving their draft stock to a likely 1st or 2nd round pick? Absolutely!
 
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