Red Zone Offense

[MNIrishman]

I think you guys are right about the slow developing running plays when the field gets compressed. I know both interceptions Saturday came on 3rd &10. If we're able to run for positive yards then the downs become 3rd and short which allows for a run/pass option.

The TE production has been a big disappointment the last two years. That's one position we are able to consistently recruit at a high level, we need to develop the talent.

I am glad that Kelly mentioned the red zone issue in his presser. He seems to be able to fix issues when he focuses on it.

Punt returns excepted

 

[ACamp1900]

Punt returns excepted

I know it took WAY too long, but the return game has gotten much better over the last season or so...

 

[gkIrish]

I know it took WAY too long, but the return game has gotten much better over the last season or so...

Yes it has. Sanders is a dynamic player. Elite teams generally have elite return units and we are approaching that.

 

[IrishLax]

In general, best special teams so far under Kelly?

 

[NDRock]

In general, best special teams so far under Kelly?

I think so.

 

[gkIrish]

In general, best special teams so far under Kelly?

Yes. Newsome isn't very good though.

 

[CHIDomer9]

I don't want to hear about how great we recruit the OL if we are unwilling to put 2 or 3 more fat guys on the field when the ball is inside the 5.

 

[yankeeND]

Yes. Newsome isn't very good though.

See, now that is the kind of sillyness that the whole family can enjoy.

 

[ACamp1900]

I don't want to hear about how great we recruit the OL if we are unwilling to put 2 or 3 more fat guys on the field when the ball is inside the 5.

A bunch of fat guys don't meet certain 'cute' quotas....

 

[BleedBlueGold]

II podcast has some discussion on red zone play. Worth a listen.

Obviously a combination of poor play calling and lack of execution. They mentioned Rees, Golson, and now Kizer having issues. Golson had 7 last year and Kizer has 3. Young players, yes. But all that aside, it's a theme that's existed beyond any one person. MULTIPLE years of problems puts it on coaches (but also players).

 

[Bluto]

Teams with really good red zone offenses generally have pro style power running attacks with good blocking TEs or are really good at misdirection with a mobile QB... or run an option offense like Navy.

The problem with our team is that the running plays are all slow developing AND our OL doesn't win at the point of attack as well as we had hoped AND the TEs aren't good blockers AND our WRs tend to be quicker without great hands or good size. It's a combination of problems. I don't know the solution.

Bring in Montelus and Mustipher as the tight ends and move Luatua to H/ fullback with Kizer under center and hand it off to Williams on a straight ahead dive. Would be interesting to see.

 

[kmoose]

Bring in Montelus and Mustipher as the tight ends and move Luatua to H/ fullback with Kizer under center and hand it off to Williams on a straight ahead dive. Would be interesting to see.

And people would bitch about running against 9 men in the box........

 

[T Town Tommy]

Pay up fellas...I told ya southerners could count!

Just playing, TTT

I didn't come here to play no math...

 

[T Town Tommy]

I have always been a believer that when you get inside the five yard line, you have to put a hat on a hat and just be bigger and badder than the other team. At some point, you have to blow them off the ball and score. Put the QB under center, have a jumbo package, and hit the hole with authority. Notre Dame has enough of the big fellas to do this. If you can't punch it in on three tries from the five, then you don't deserve the TD to begin with.

 

[Bluto]

And people would bitch about running against 9 men in the box........

Probably. After thinking about it a bit more I would put Mustipher and Montelus on the interior and slide Elmer and Stanley to the tight end spots.

 

[jerboski]

I have always been a believer that when you get inside the five yard line, you have to put a hat on a hat and just be bigger and badder than the other team. At some point, you have to blow them off the ball and score. Put the QB under center, have a jumbo package, and hit the hole with authority. Notre Dame has enough of the big fellas to do this. If you can't punch it in on three tries from the five, then you don't deserve the TD to begin with.

This.... I don't understand why we run slow developing runs or stretches in the redzone.. Just lineup and smash them right in the face, there is absolutely no reason that we had a first down on the 3 yard line and couldn't smash it in in three tries..

 

[kmoose]

I have always been a believer that when you get inside the five yard line, you have to put a hat on a hat and just be bigger and badder than the other team. At some point, you have to blow them off the ball and score. Put the QB under center, have a jumbo package, and hit the hole with authority. Notre Dame has enough of the big fellas to do this. If you can't punch it in on three tries from the five, then you don't deserve the TD to begin with.

But you can't not run the play(s) that give you the best chance to score, just to prove some working-class hero machismo....

 

[T Town Tommy]

But you can't not run the play(s) that give you the best chance to score, just to prove some working-class hero machismo....

Agree. But you can run so much other stuff from that alignment. A QB with wheels like your QB could waltz around the end more times than not... IF the other team thinks you are going to ground pound. End of the day, brute force doesn't always work... but you won't know till you try.

 

[ulukinatme]

Other than 2011, which was an awful year, we've been getting steadily worse in the red zone it seems. I agree that a big part of that probably goes back to TEs. Eifert was great, but his successors have been getting less looks and they've been less effective. Sure, Tyler Eifert was a freak of nature, but the TEs that came before him all had very good numbers and weren't nearly as gifted other than Rudolph who left early and was injured quite a bit.

Which leads me back to Scott Booker, I still don't think he's a very good coach. I think Luatua is a great blocker, and Jones will be a phenomenal talent in the coming years, but neither will be due to Scott Booker's teachings imo. Bernie Parmalee was a big reason why our TEs were so effective and we became "TE U." We're slowly losing that title and our TEs have been getting less impressive each year under Booker. There's a lot of talent at that position, too much unrealized potential. A lot of these kids were some of the best TEs at their positions coming out of high school, and you're telling me we can't turn them into big time stars? A good TE provides mismatches in goal line situations, but our TEs are no where to be found right now when we get near the goal.

 

[stlnd01]

We don't have reliable tight ends.
We don't have a traditional power running back (we miss Folston a lot in short yardage).
We have a QB who's still developing the finesse and timing to complete short/mid passes in traffic.

Add it up and we struggle to close the deal. It's not just about the O Line.

 

[Irish Insanity]

And people would bitch about running against 9 men in the box........

Not if we actually had enough big blockers up front. It's running at an 8 man box with 5 or 6 blocker over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and.....that's ridiculous.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Just give Prosise a running chance.. Im tired of seeing him side step to receive the ball and run into crashing defenders. Like a few have said the running game takes too long to develop.

I think the staff noticed defenses not respecting Kizer's legs so they let him loose a little more against Temple hoping it would free up Prosise a bit but it didn't.

So is that poor execution/coaching or superior play by Temple?

I'm confused when I watch this offense.. It seems scattered brained and without an identity.

 

[BillyIrish]

Just give Prosise a running chance.. Im tired of seeing him side step to receive the ball and run into crashing defenders. Like a few have said the running game takes too long to develop.

I think the staff noticed defenses not respecting Kizer's legs so they let him loose a little more against Temple hoping it would free up Prosise a bit but it didn't.

So is that poor execution/coaching or superior play by Temple?

I'm confused when I watch this offense.. It seems scattered brained and without an identity.

That is going to be the issue for the rest of the season until guys other than 7 and 20 consistently make plays. BK alluded to it, Temple sold out on stopping Prosise without committing an extra safety. Kizer made them pay with his feet a few times. But teams are going to continue to dare him to run knowing the depth situation.

This is not a power running team. Coupled with a QB that hasn't been decisive consistently. To me that doesn't spell red zone success.

 

[Cackalacky]

Why not have ESB line up in the I and he could hurdle both lines. I am thinking he could do that anywhere inside the 10.

 

[dublinirish]

Bring back the Notre Dame box

 

[BleedBlueGold]

ISD Podcast had some insight on this as well and they echoed what I had been telling a buddy of mine the other day (which someone mentioned earlier to an extent; that being Luatua at H-back).

Bill made the point that your entire philosophy has to change in the red zone because the defense's philosophy changes. What got you there is no longer applicable. Yet we still see these slow developing run plays or the mis-direction plays. Mike chimed in with his idea to put McGovern in and move Tyler to H-back. He raved about Collin this podcast. (Elmer isn't getting it down inside the 5 to my recollection, so why not give someone else a try who's an absolute mauler like Q?).

Bottom line, I think the staff needs to rethink what they're doing. Kizer is still a very young and raw QB so he's not always going to make the right reads/decisions. They need to help him out by simplifying it and just getting bigger/badder than the team lined up across from them.

 

[Irish#1]

Bring in Montelus and Mustipher as the tight ends and move Luatua to H/ fullback with Kizer under center and hand it off to Williams on a straight ahead dive. Would be interesting to see.

I have always been a believer that when you get inside the five yard line, you have to put a hat on a hat and just be bigger and badder than the other team. At some point, you have to blow them off the ball and score. Put the QB under center, have a jumbo package, and hit the hole with authority. Notre Dame has enough of the big fellas to do this. If you can't punch it in on three tries from the five, then you don't deserve the TD to begin with.

YES, YES, YES. Running out of the shotgun or pistol has a major flaw. We run so much better from under center and I've been saying this for the last five years. Go back to 2012 and watch the games. Once we got inside the ten we went under center and produced. I don't know why this has been lost or forgotten by the coaching staff. Load up the front. The D may put 8 or 9 in the box, but the defense has to account for everyone of those guys. If they don't the RB is going to have a fairly easy time picking up good yardage.

 

[NDRock]

YES, YES, YES. Running out of the shotgun or pistol has a major flaw. We run so much better from under center and I've been saying this for the last five years. Go back to 2012 and watch the games. Once we got inside the ten we went under center and produced. I don't know why this has been lost or forgotten by the coaching staff. Load up the front. The D may put 8 or 9 in the box, but the defense has to account for everyone of those guys. If they don't the RB is going to have a fairly easy time picking up good yardage.

Going under center also brings in the play-action threat. I am glad that we have used Kizer for the QB sneak on 3rd or 4th and short. Kid is a beast.

 

[NDRock]

Two words.... jet sweep.

Two more words.... stop it.

You joke but I was surprised we didn't see any of this on Saturday. It's actually been quite effective this year (not just red zone but in general).

 

[RDU Irish]

YES, YES, YES. Running out of the shotgun or pistol has a major flaw. We run so much better from under center and I've been saying this for the last five years. Go back to 2012 and watch the games. Once we got inside the ten we went under center and produced. I don't know why this has been lost or forgotten by the coaching staff. Load up the front. The D may put 8 or 9 in the box, but the defense has to account for everyone of those guys. If they don't the RB is going to have a fairly easy time picking up good yardage.

With Kizer being a huge kid, can we get back to the automatic QB keeper we had with Brady Quinn? Short yardage was automatic with Brady, center and QB were all that needed to get it right and we could get a yard any day of the week.

This O-Line has big time depth, I agree with the idea of giving some back-ups some snaps in the red zone. Let them take on the identity of run maulers with pride. Every other unit has "packages" to maximize the team talent, why not the O-Line?