Politics

[Ndaccountant]

It is my understanding, these were decisions made by GM, not Obama. Plus the republicans and blue dog dems have repeatedly filibustered jobs bills by the Obama Admin that would allow plants like janesville to retool and reopen because. But I am surprised we have an auto industry remaining at all.

While true, why would he say he would re-tool plants in the first place? He can't control what those businesses do. It was a fool hardy promise in the first place.

 

[RDU Irish]

FACT CHECK: Obama promised and failed to keep Janesville GM plant open

Last night, in his Republican National Convention speech, Paul Ryan said:

President Barack Obama came to office during an economic crisis, as he has reminded us a time or two. Those were very tough days, and any fair measure of his record has to take that into account. My home state voted for President Obama. When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory.

A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.

Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.

The Washington Post, and a host of other liberal media outlets, are calling this passage “misleading” because the Janesville plant “closed before the president was inaugurated.” The Post is dead wrong. Here are the facts:

1. On February 13, 2008 Obama said in Janesville : “I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

2. In June 2008 GM announced that the Janesville plant would stop production of medium-duty trucks by the end of 2009, and stop production of large SUVs in 2010 or sooner.

3. In October 2008 Obama doubled down on his promise to keep Janesville plant open: “As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America.”

4. In December 2008 GM idled production of GM SUVs at the Janesville plant. Medium-duty truck assembly continued.

5. In April 2009, four months after Obama was inaugurated, GM idled production of medium-duty trucks.

6. In September 2011, more than two years after Obama was inaugurated, GM reiterates that Janesville plant is on “stand by status.” Auto industry observer David Cole, tells the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel it would be premature to say the Janesville plant will never reopen.

6. Today the GM facility in Janesville still has not been retooled “so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs,” as Obama promised.

Potown- I like you. You should post more.

Cack - You are right and Obama was an idiot to promise something that is the business of GM not the government. That is the real point, Obama is quick to make empty promises to get votes. Pointing out these empty promises is not to say you are promising more, just that the other guy had no business making that promise in the first place. The point that government should have bridge financed a GM bankruptcy without getting involved in picking winners and losers in said bankruptcy is lost on liberals and the media (as if they are not one and the same). Had they acted only as a bank I submit GM and the auto industry would be better positioned for the future. Yes, it would have probably cost the PBGC some money as well as the unions but it would not mean 20% of US car production would have halted immediately, never to be seen again. If any of you fear mongers really believe that you are crazy, IMHO.

The auto bailout debate gets very technical very quickly. It is pretty dishonest to simplify it to the all or nothing debate preferred by democrats.

 

[Cackalacky]

While true, why would he say he would re-tool plants in the first place? He can't control what those businesses do. It was a fool hardy promise in the first place.

Because thats what leaders do. They try to inspire and lead and I believe he underestimated the depths to which republicans would obstruct his plan to retool the auto industry and construction industry into a more modern version. His overall plan was to develop a "green market" for manufacturing and commerce that would form the basis of a set of whole new market segments (a completely new source of wealth and jobs) while phasing out outdated methods and plants. The republicans annouced their ntentions to make him a one term president and began this first and formost by their assault on Van Jones,brandingObama as a socialist ( maoist, communist, nazi, muslim....) and then by obstructing most funding for green initiatives or changes towards sustainble products and methods. The government subsidizes the oil and nuclear industry still so I don't want to hear anything about power subsidies for green power being an issue.

He was stuck then with the auto bailout leaving the atuo industry to work with what they had. Had he succeeded in retooling manufacturing plants into modern "green" production plants, I think things would have gone much differently in this country.

 

[RDU Irish]

" Romney has made a core promise to cut $500 billion per year from the federal budget by 2016 to bring spending below 20 percent of the U.S. economy, and to balance it entirely by 2020."

This is actually not that hard if they just don't grow as fast as the current baseline projections. If they grow government by 1% instead of 4% they pretty easily hit the $500B by 2016 goal. Then by growing GDP faster than spending growth they are quickly on track for the 20% of GDP target.

Now if they were cutting the overall budget from $4 trillion to $3.5 trillion by 2016 I would be more impressed. This would be right on for the 20% of GDP, only by 2016 if we were to get 3% GDP growth the next four years.

I still prefer small balls to being a eunuch on the topic though.

 

[RDU Irish]

Because thats what leaders do. They try to inspire and lead and I believe he underestimated the depths to which republicans would obstruct his plan to retool the auto industry and construction industry into a more modern version. His overall plan was to develop a "green market" for manufacturing and commerce that would form the basis of a set of whole new market segments (a completely new source of wealth and jobs) while phasing out outdated methods and plants. The republicans annouced their ntentions to make him a one term president and began this first and formost by their assault on Van Jones,brandingObama as a socialist ( maoist, communist, nazi, muslim....) and then by obstructing most funding for green initiatives or changes towards sustainble products and methods. The government subsidizes the oil and nuclear industry still so I don't want to hear anything about power subsidies for green power being an issue.

He was stuck then with the auto bailout leaving the atuo industry to work with what they had. Had he succeeded in retooling manufacturing plants into modern "green" production plants, I think things would have gone much differently in this country.

Newsflash - Barack Obama is not Henry Ford and Thomas Edison wrapped into one magical package. He also does not have a bag full of unicorn horns and fairy dust.

 

[irishog77]

Because thats what leaders do. They try to inspire and lead and I believe he underestimated the depths to which republicans would obstruct his plan to retool the auto industry and construction industry into a more modern version. His overall plan was to develop a "green market" for manufacturing and commerce that would form the basis of a set of whole new market segments (a completely new source of wealth and jobs) while phasing out outdated methods and plants. The republicans annouced their ntentions to make him a one term president and began this first and formost by their assault on Van Jones,brandingObama as a socialist ( maoist, communist, nazi, muslim....) and then by obstructing most funding for green initiatives or changes towards sustainble products and methods. The government subsidizes the oil and nuclear industry still so I don't want to hear anything about power subsidies for green power being an issue.

He was stuck then with the auto bailout leaving the atuo industry to work with what they had. Had he succeeded in retooling manufacturing plants into modern "green" production plants, I think things would have gone much differently in this country.

Newsflash - Barack Obama is not Henry Ford and Thomas Edison wrapped into one magical package. He also does not have a bag full of unicorn horns and fairy dust.

Exactly. To me, this is the crux of it all for the opposition to Obama. This is a guy who (let's be completely honest here) really had no skills and experience for the role as POTUS, let alone to fundamentally change and revolutionize the auto industry.

 

[Cackalacky]

Newsflash - Barack Obama is not Henry Ford and Thomas Edison wrapped into one magical package. He also does not have a bag full of unicorn horns and fairy dust.

This is just dumb considering Germany is already meeting 20% of its energy demand with green sources and 51% of that is privately owned.

The share of electricity produced from renewable energy in Germany has increased from 6.3 percent of the national total in 2000 to about 25 percent in the first half of 2012.[1][2] In 2010, investments totaling 26 billion euros were made in Germany’s renewable energies sector. According to official figures, some 370,000 people in Germany were employed in the renewable energy sector in 2010, especially in small and medium sized companies. This is an increase of around 8 percent compared to 2009 (around 339,500 jobs), and well over twice the number of jobs in 2004 (160,500). About two-thirds of these jobs are attributed to the Renewable Energy Sources Act[3][4] Germany has been called "the world's first major renewable energy economy".[5] In 2010 nearly 17% (more than 100 TWH) of Germany's electricity supply (603 TWH) was produced from renewable energy sources, more than the 2010 contribution of gas-fired power plants.[6]

Renewable electricity in 2010 was 101.7 TWh including wind power 36.5 TWh, biomass and biowaste 33.5 TWh, hydropower 19.7 TWh and photovoltaic power 12.0 TWh.[

TeraWatt fuking hours.... That is a **** ton of power.

They also have plans to cut consumption of energy as well as increase production. While we are here are increasing our consumption blowing the tops off of mountains to get coal.

And if you dont think we can do it, I know e can, bcause we have done it with water consumption. Our wwater consumption per capita has steadily declined since 1990 due to inovation and regulations and incentivization. I believe you like the idea of incentivizing good business right?

 

[Cackalacky]

Exactly. To me, this is the crux of it all for the opposition to Obama. This is a guy who (let's be completely honest here) really had no skills and experience for the role as POTUS, let alone to fundamentally change and revolutionize the auto industry.

No, he is supposed to lead us in the direction. FDR did not have this problem. JFK did not have this problem. LBJ did not have this problem. Because we as a country were mostly united behind the idea of fixing the problems at hand. Barak Obama has not had that luxury, and I will accept the fact he has not made his case for it at all. You can call it what you want.

But we as americans are failing to understand that our current energy derivation and manufacturing systems are outdated and out moded. We are falling far behind in technology, efficiency and inovation and it has little to do with the president and more with ourselves.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Hey guys,

That was a "for what it is worth." Republicans, you built this. The guy (Obama) was referring to infrastructure, financed and built by the Federal Government. You couldn't even get that straight! He wasn't talking about anyone's business!

The wealthy business owners have shipped the jobs to where they are most cost saving, and then contribute to super PACs that try to lay the blame at a patsy's feet. They count on people not intelligent enough to be able to figure things out for themselves. I was just trying to save one or two. But if everybody is too invested to see it isn't really Republican versus Democrat, oh well.

I lay facts out from the AP with unbiased sources, and I get responses back, united because they come from the spin doctors themselves. Oh, well.

(Spin doctors have the majority of Republicans believing that Ayn Rand is a heckled Christian philosopher being picked upon by the atheists.)

 

[Cackalacky]

Hey guys,

That was a "for what it is worth." Republicans, you built this. The guy (Obama) was referring to infrastructure, financed and built by the Federal Government. You couldn't even get that straight! He wasn't talking about anyone's business!

The wealthy business owners have shipped the jobs to where they are most cost saving, and then contribute to super PACs that try to lay the blame at a patsy's feet. They count on people not intelligent enough to be able to figure things out for themselves. I was just trying to save one or two. But if everybody is too invested to see it isn't really Republican versus Democrat, oh well.

I lay facts out from the AP with unbiased sources, and I get responses back, united because they come from the spin doctors themselves. Oh, well.

(Spin doctors have the majority of Republicans believing that Ayn Rand is a heckled Christian philosopher being picked upon by the atheists.)

Its about the Benjamins ........

 

[NDFan4Life]

A few links for your perusal:

Solyndra | The Center for Public Integrity

Solyndra bankruptcy may be a total loss for taxpayers - Sep. 30, 2011

Solyndra bankruptcy was disaster waiting to happen | Green Tech - CNET News

Bankrupt Solyndra Caught Destroying Brand New Parts « CBS San Francisco

 

[Cackalacky]

A few links for your perusal:

Solyndra | The Center for Public Integrity

Solyndra bankruptcy may be a total loss for taxpayers - Sep. 30, 2011

Solyndra bankruptcy was disaster waiting to happen | Green Tech - CNET News

Bankrupt Solyndra Caught Destroying Brand New Parts « CBS San Francisco

LOL yeah I knew that was coming.....Lets paint the whole industry with one company....yay for you and your huge smear brush...

THis is probably what you ought to be reading though
25 Companies to Watch in Energy Tech: The Best Clean-Energy Startups - BusinessWeek

 

[NDFan4Life]

LOL yeah I knew that was coming.....Lets paint the whole industry with one company....yay for you and your huge smear brush...

THis is probably what you ought to be reading though
25 Companies to Watch in Energy Tech: The Best Clean-Energy Startups - BusinessWeek

Wow!

I really must've hit a nerve on that one.

LMAO!

 

[RDU Irish]

LOL yeah I knew that was coming.....Lets paint the whole industry with one company....yay for you and your huge smear brush...

THis is probably what you ought to be reading though
25 Companies to Watch in Energy Tech: The Best Clean-Energy Startups - BusinessWeek

That's great, how many are backed by the US Government?

 

[Cackalacky]

That's great, how many are backed by the US Government?

Hardly any, that is my point. Germany has invested and we have not. They are now at least 10 years ahead of us......plus their public is demanding green energy, we are not. Hence the context of my last few posts.

 

[Cackalacky]

Wow!

I really must've hit a nerve on that one.

LMAO!

Hardly.

 

[tadman95]

This seems to have digressed into a who can can give an example of good for their side and bad for the other side, with a twist of convenient memory thrown in. We could spend days throwing examples around.

The first election I could vote in was Ford vs Carter. Since then I've seen/heard about every theory/concoction of economic theory. One fact remains, both parties, republican and democrat, suck at controling spending and balancing budgets.

Every president has run record deficits since I've been voting save Clinton who was a little lucky.

We've got a problem and I've yet to hear a plan that can reasonable get our budget under control. I don't want to hear the current rhetoric, I don't buy it.

In the next 65 days or so one of these guys is going to have to convince me they are going to do less damage than the other. That's sad.

Figuring Congress will only get worse in their ability to do work, well, that makes it sadder.

 

[RDU Irish]

I have no problem with Solyndra failing. I have a big problem with our government bankrolling it. Government can contribute on an R&D level, such as some military bases trying to go off the grid. I don't see how government can otherwise come in and pick winners and losers here?

What about more nat gas cars on the road than electric cars? Fully funded by private citizens and no government tax breaks or kick backs. How did that happen and why didn't fairy dust farting Obama "lead" in that direction? Or was it his plan to restrict drilling on government lands to help push energy prices higher and make his fairy tale potentially feasible at some possible point in the future, hopefully?

Let the free markets do what they do best, make the world richer, free-er, less expensive, cleaner or as most people would say, better.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Hardly any, that is my point. Germany has invested and we have not. They are now at least 10 years ahead of us......plus their public is demanding green energy, we are not. Hence the context of my last few posts.

The biggest problem in this country isn't the number of people that don't get it. That is only the second biggest problem. The biggest problem is that those people are under the mistaken impression that they do get it. If you look at the "leadership" on the right, there is not a single person of impressive intellect among them; the people that get ahead on the right have as their singular skill the ability to manipulate information and people.

You are wasting your time in this thread, my friend.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

The Repubs say that their campaign will not be dictated by fact-checkers. Is that why Ryan lied throughout his speech last night?

 

[Rhode Irish]

The Repubs say that their campaign will not be dictated by fact-checkers. Is that why Ryan lied throughout his speech last night?

Their campaign will also not be dictated by facts, apparently. Can't complain about it, though. Its the same campaign they run every four years. Say whatever you have to in order to win, without any regard for the truth.

 

[RDU Irish]

The biggest problem in this country isn't the number of people that don't get it. That is only the second biggest problem. The biggest problem is that those people are under the mistaken impression that they do get it. If you look at the "leadership" on the right, there is not a single person of impressive intellect among them; the people that get ahead on the right have as their singular skill the ability to manipulate information and people.

You are wasting your time in this thread, my friend.

...and revert to condescending liberal, better-than-you-unenlightened-plebeans stroke off.

Al Franken and Bill Maher would be proud.

 

[ACamp1900]

I learned something today, anyone who doesn't agree with the superior, all knowing minds of the left does not get it, is stupid or is manipulated by the lying republicans (of course lying and manipulation is exclusive the right).... And that's the whole country in a nutshell... That's what's wrong... If only we all thought with the same narrow minds our problems would take care of themselves!!!


One thing was sure nailed here, when it comes to this nation there are CLEARLY people out there that just don't get it.

 

[RDU Irish]

Their campaign will also not be dictated by facts, apparently. Can't complain about it, though. Its the same campaign they run every four years. Say whatever you have to in order to win, without any regard for the truth.

Nice to see you agree with what Ryan pointed out about Obama's 2008 promise to Janesville GM workers. You are right, Obama will say anything to win re-election without any regard whatsoever for the truth.

 

[Corry]

As a person who has come to respect most of the people in this forum, I can't help but ask for a little advice. I’m a person who is pro choice, for gay marriage, and for fiscal responsibility. I support the second amendment, and the current funding for the military. As a veteran, I can tell you advanced weapons really are important. Who the hell do I vote for? Who best represents my wants for the country? Help a brother out. No one seems to check all the boxes for me. This is why I hate presidential elections. In the mid-terms I usually vote to balance power.

 

[ACamp1900]

As a person who has come to respect most of the people in this forum, I can't help but ask for a little advice. I’m a person who is pro choice, for gay marriage, and for fiscal responsibility. I support the second amendment, and the current funding for the military. As a veteran, I can tell you advanced weapons really are important. Who the hell do I vote for? Who best represents my wants for the country? Help a brother out. No one seems to check all the boxes for me. This is why I hate presidential elections. In the mid-terms I usually vote to balance power.

I am much of the same, for the most part, .... Left on gun control and social issues/ marriage... Very conservative on the govs role in our lives and how tax dollars are spent... I tend to vote according to my most vital out of these issues personally and go from there...

I find you kind of have to when you are split on the most common issues

 

[Buster Bluth]

As a person who has come to respect most of the people in this forum, I can't help but ask for a little advice. I’m a person who is pro choice, for gay marriage, and for fiscal responsibility. I support the second amendment, and the current funding for the military. As a veteran, I can tell you advanced weapons really are important. Who the hell do I vote for? Who best represents my wants for the country? Help a brother out. No one seems to check all the boxes for me. This is why I hate presidential elections. In the mid-terms I usually vote to balance power.

The first step is to take into account which of those have a >1% chance of being impacted by the President. Abortion and certainly the second amendment and gay marriage have no chance whatsoever of changing due to a President.

So it comes down to fiscal responsibility and the "current funding of the military." My honest opinion is that 1) those two things are polar opposites so you may want to reevaluate your position; and 2) neither Obama or Romney are both of those, Romney is one Obama is none.

It's probably a bad thing that Romney is saying he will maintain the military budget. I pray that is is posturing for votes. The defense department should be cut in half and then capped for five years.

Neither of them are "fiscally responsible," as least according to their plans. Romney has history on his side and a better chance to boost the economy, so he has that.

My conclusion: you're better off writing in Ron Paul.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Nice to see you agree with what Ryan pointed out about Obama's 2008 promise to Janesville GM workers. You are right, Obama will say anything to win re-election without any regard whatsoever for the truth.

The Janesville GM plant closed before Obama was sworn in. Ryan knew that and lied to the country last night.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Barack Obama Accepts Democratic Nomination - YouTube

Good thing that Obama didn't pull stuff out of his *** when he accepted the nomination...

 

[NDFan4Life]

The Janesville GM plant closed before Obama was sworn in. Ryan knew that and lied to the country last night.

Obama's Speech in Janesville, Wisconsin
February 13, 2008

This can be America’s future. I know that General Motors received some bad news yesterday, and I know how hard your Governor has fought to keep jobs in this plant. But I also know how much progress you’ve made – how many hybrids and fuel-efficient vehicles you’re churning out. And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. The question is not whether a clean energy economy is in our future, it’s where it will thrive. I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America; right here in Wisconsin; and that’s the future I’ll fight for as your President.

Obama's Speech in Janesville, Wisconsin - Council on Foreign Relations

1. In 2008, Presidential candidate Barack Obama told workers at the plant that if the government would help them retool the plant to produce “clean energy” products, the plant would stay open.

2. The plant closed during the Obama administration, in April, 2009. Presumably Obama did not help the plant retool, as promised.

3. Paul Ryan was slightly inaccurate in his speech. He said that the plant didn’t last another year. In fact, it was still producing vehicles for the next 14 months.

GM plant's last day finalized
By JIM LEUTE ( Contact ) Thursday, Feb. 19, 2009

JANESVILLE — General Motors will end medium-duty truck production in Janesville on April 23, four months to the day after the plant stopped building full-size sport utility vehicles.

About 100 employees associated with the line learned of the layoffs Wednesday.

April will mark the end of vehicle production at the Janesville plant that traces its roots to 1919 and the Samson Model M tractor. Chevrolet production started in Janesville in 1923.

GM plant's last day finalized -- GazetteXtra