Political Correctness thread

[ACamp1900]

There will be a point where the progressive movement becomes so ridiculous that the general public will view their "demands" as foolish. I think this whole trans movement is pretty close to the edge of what the general public is willing to accept.

The next cause is going to be polygamy or some B.S. like that and we will see the movement burn to the ground.

Just keep slowly turning the heat up on that pot and the frog will never notice....

 

[Rizzophil]

Curt Schilling, who was fired from ESPN for his stance on transgender bathroom usages, predicts the legislation will lead to horrifying consequences.

"Everybody's talking, '... People are going to get raped in a women's bathrooms.' The issue is not this," Schilling said. "What's going to happen—it's already happened—but it's going to happen one time in a big way, somebody is going to get molested in a women's room, and it's going to be a child, and some scum-bag, pervert child molester is going to go to jail and the transgender community is going to be in a place they never, ever wanted to be, because they're going to have to be defending their right to use a bathroom, which opens up the door."

 

[RDU Irish]

Schilling is conflating this issue like most people. I am more weirded out by a tranny dude at the urinal in the men's room than a bearded lady hitting the stall. And more creeped by a dude peaking over the urinal divider than either of the above.

Laws were not needed. If someone uses the wrong bathroom it is no big deal. If someone assaults someone, exposes themselves or harasses there are already laws on the books to deal with those violations. Taking a deuce in the wrong can is not, and should not be a punishable offense or anything the government needs to get involved with on any level.

 

[woolybug25]

Curt Schilling, who was fired from ESPN for his stance on transgender bathroom usages, predicts the legislation will lead to horrifying consequences.

"Everybody's talking, '... People are going to get raped in a women's bathrooms.' The issue is not this," Schilling said. "What's going to happen—it's already happened—but it's going to happen one time in a big way, somebody is going to get molested in a women's room, and it's going to be a child, and some scum-bag, pervert child molester is going to go to jail and the transgender community is going to be in a place they never, ever wanted to be, because they're going to have to be defending their right to use a bathroom, which opens up the door."

I think this is the most brainless argument. If a child molester is going to dress up as a lady and wait for an unsupervised child to enter an empty restroom to rape them, then they were going to rape someone anyway. Bathrooms are public and people come in and out, if they go through the trouble of making sure no one can come in, then they don't really have a reason to dress up as a girl.

Let's also add that transpeople have been using their preferred bathrooms since the beginning. As far as I know, no one has ever imitated one in order to assault a child. The transgender people have certainly been assaulted though. Nobody wants to talk about that though.

 

[IrishLion]

Creed from The Office had the right idea:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TD3-TQcbkmg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[irishroo]

This isn't directed at you Bishop, but just my general observations about the whole "politically correct" phenomenon. I don't know who to laugh at more, the folks who have these zany ideas or those who spend so much time and effort trying to make them look silly, as if they need the help. They are making themselves look silly, but folks' compulsion to finding examples of their political correctness gone wild is almost just as over the top.

What ever happened to just rolling our eyes or shaking our head and going about our business? Who gives a crap when these kids believe ... they will be swallowed up by the real world soon enough and their dumb, idealistic, impulsive ideas will fade away just as the dumb, idealistic, impulsive ideas of every generation did. The more we focus on this idiocy ... the more we try to counter punch ... the more absurd it becomes and the more self righteous they will be. If we really want to end this dumb wave of over the top political correctness, all we have to do is ignore it.

I hope you're correct on the bolded, but I'm not sure you are/will be. Here's why I'm not so sure:

Society today is more polarized than ever before. There are far more people with extreme ideological views, both on the right and left, than ever before. This is evidence by the rise and popularity of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and Bernie Sanders, some of the most ideologically extreme major-party presidential candidates in our country's history (in Trump's case I don't think his actual positions are as extreme as some believe they are, but the rhetoric he uses to promote them certainly is). That said, when these kids move into the "real world" will their "dumb, idealistic, impulsive ideas" actually fade away? At this point, I'm not so sure. We've already gotten to the point where what I would consider to be idealistic, fantasy-land ideas like free college tuition and a federally-mandated $15 minimum wage are being embraced by a large portion of the populace and where college administrators are being forced into resignation for suggesting that maybe it's not appropriate or necessary for the administration of a world-class university home to the best and brightest students on the planet to lay out explicit guidelines around appropriate Halloween costumes. It seems to me that these ideas are moving out into the real world and taken seriously.

 

[wizards8507]

Schilling is conflating this issue like most people. I am more weirded out by a tranny dude at the urinal in the men's room than a bearded lady hitting the stall. And more creeped by a dude peaking over the urinal divider than either of the above.

Laws were not needed. If someone uses the wrong bathroom it is no big deal. If someone assaults someone, exposes themselves or harasses there are already laws on the books to deal with those violations. Taking a deuce in the wrong can is not, and should not be a punishable offense or anything the government needs to get involved with on any level.

I think this is the most brainless argument. If a child molester is going to dress up as a lady and wait for an unsupervised child to enter an empty restroom to rape them, then they were going to rape someone anyway. Bathrooms are public and people come in and out, if they go through the trouble of making sure no one can come in, then they don't really have a reason to dress up as a girl.

Let's also add that transpeople have been using their preferred bathrooms since the beginning. As far as I know, no one has ever imitated one in order to assault a child. The transgender people have certainly been assaulted though. Nobody wants to talk about that though.

Bathrooms have stalls, so I consider them much less relevant than locker rooms and showers. Note again that this only applies to government facilities, so we're primarily talking about schools.

Where do either of you suggest a trans female shower after gym class? How would you feel if your fifteen year old daughter were showering with a female who has a penis?

 

[pkt77242]

This is the best video I've seen posted on the subject. It's also the saddest thing I’ve seen for this generation. Are we really making these kids feel like their thoughts and opinions (freedom of speech) should not be expressed in the fear of Political correctness backlash? Are we really denying obvious common sense facts to coddle the clearly mentally ill? These are physical and genetic traits.

The same people who call Christians stupid while clamoring on about Science being the only truth, tend to be the same that support others spitting on the science of genetics. Strange! You can tell Christians they’re wrong all day long, but can’t tell a person an obvious truth? Why?

Live & let live is only acceptable when there’s no effect on the majority. In other words, when people start making MENTAL decisions on how they want to live their life and then tell 99.95% of the population they should be accommodating, live and let live goes out the window.

The worst are the people who actually have the nerve to call people bigots for these opinions. We’ve come to a point where instead of calling people out so they can get help we try to accommodate it and make their illness a reality.

To be clear, people who were born with genetic issues (surgery decisions made for them at birth) do not fall into this category. They truly didn’t have a choice. These crazies now are messing it up for them.

Lets tackle the obvious truth part.

1. We can agree that most people are born with the genitals of male or female (with a few obvious exceptions).

2. Can you agree that sexuality is a continuum? The current theory of sexuality is that straight/gay is not binary but a continuum.

3. What about a person's brain? Is it possible that a male physically could have more features of a female's brain than a male's? Thus making them more likely to "feel" and "think" like a woman? Research into the brain structures of males vs females is all over the board currently. Previous research showed males and females had some distinct differences, while the most current research seems to show that male female differences aren't uniform (though there are some differences that are more likely linked to male or female).

Basically is it possible that for a transgender person that they are born with a physical sex of male/female but a brain that might have more in common with the other gender? If so the "truth" of their gender becomes more grey than black or white. Now this is hypothetical, and I wonder what the further research into male/female brains will find as it seems to shift every few years.

 

[wizards8507]

1. We can agree that most people are born with the genitals of male or female (with a few obvious exceptions).

Not just the genitals, but also the chromosomes (again, with a few exceptions).

2. Can you agree that sexuality is a continuum? The current theory of sexuality is that straight/gay is not binary but a continuum.

Sex and sexuality are not the same thing. Sex is what you are and is binary. Sexuality is who you want to have intercourse with, and there are a number of different outcomes. My daughter was conceived a female, she was born a female, and she will die a female. She has a vagina and two X chromosomes. Anything outside of the XX / XY binary is a chromosomal disorder.

3. What about a person's brain? Is it possible that a male physically could have more features of a female's brain than a male's? Thus making them more likely to "feel" and "think" like a woman? Research into the brain structures of males vs females is all over the board currently. Previous research showed males and females had some distinct differences, while the most current research seems to show that male female differences aren't uniform (though there are some differences that are more likely linked to male or female).

The condition of one's brain does not alter reality. If an anorexic woman weighs 92 pounds, her belief that she is fat does not mean that she is fat. If someone suffers from delusional hallucinations, the fact that he sees a giant pink kangaroo in his bedroom does not mean there is a giant pink kangaroo in his bedroom. Likewise, a female does not become male just because she thinks she's a male.

Basically is it possible that for a transgender person that they are born with a physical sex of male/female but a brain that might have more in common with the other gender? If so the "truth" of their gender becomes more grey than black or white. Now this is hypothetical, and I wonder what the further research into male/female brains will find as it seems to shift every few years.

Being masculine doesn't make you a man, nor does being feminine make you a woman. They're correlated characteristics but do not alter the biological binary. As I said, my daughter is a female. Even if she grows up to love trucks, grilling, and football; even if she decides to be romantic with other females, none of that makes her a male.

 

[GoIrish41]

I hope you're correct on the bolded, but I'm not sure you are/will be. Here's why I'm not so sure:

Society today is more polarized than ever before. There are far more people with extreme ideological views, both on the right and left, than ever before. This is evidence by the rise and popularity of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and Bernie Sanders, some of the most ideologically extreme major-party presidential candidates in our country's history (in Trump's case I don't think his actual positions are as extreme as some believe they are, but the rhetoric he uses to promote them certainly is). That said, when these kids move into the "real world" will their "dumb, idealistic, impulsive ideas" actually fade away? At this point, I'm not so sure. We've already gotten to the point where what I would consider to be idealistic, fantasy-land ideas like free college tuition and a federally-mandated $15 minimum wage are being embraced by a large portion of the populace and where college administrators are being forced into resignation for suggesting that maybe it's not appropriate or necessary for the administration of a world-class university home to the best and brightest students on the planet to lay out explicit guidelines around appropriate Halloween costumes. It seems to me that these ideas are moving out into the real world and taken seriously.

The Hippies of the 1960s and 1970s made people take notice, too. But, they melted into American culture, like their Greaser parents before them. The Hippy movement also began on college campuses as an anti-war movement, but got more outrageous and almost silly as time went on. By the late 60s, they were almost cartoons of themselves. And as they grew up, their "movement" faded as the young idealistic practitioners of their philosophy assimilated into the real world, got jobs, secured mortgages, raised kids, and became the square, out of touch parents of their own children, rebelling in their own unique subcultures.

It's the circle of American culture. Some of the craziness will linger for some time but it will taper off. On the other hand, some of the good stuff worth holding onto might survive (less racism, for one) and the country will be better for it -- even if we cannot see how all this silliness can produce anything positive. Eventually they will mostly come to grips with the reality that their parents were right about a whole lot more than they were wrong about -- just like you and I did, and our parents before us, and theirs before them.

Like these kids today, the heart of the Hippies was always in the right place. They wanted to bring about a better world and they gave it their best shot in their own way. They hung on to what worked and tossed off what didn't. These "crazy" kids today will do the same.

I run into a Hippy or two from back in the day, and they always make me smile. They are the ones who didn't want to give up the cause and they, by and large, exist somewhere on the fringes of society, or have embraced some workable form of duality that lets them make a living, but still hang on to the old ideology. I suspect there will be some hold-outs in this current generation, too, freaking out over chalk drawings on the sidewalk, or demanding that we pretend men are women or vice versa. But, they will move out toward the edges of society just as the hangers-on of every generation have before them.

I suspect that these rebellious, "destructive" behaviors of youth always look worse in the moments they are new. But, this too shall pass.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I think this is the most brainless argument. If a child molester is going to dress up as a lady and wait for an unsupervised child to enter an empty restroom to rape them, then they were going to rape someone anyway. Bathrooms are public and people come in and out, if they go through the trouble of making sure no one can come in, then they don't really have a reason to dress up as a girl.

Let's also add that transpeople have been using their preferred bathrooms since the beginning. As far as I know, no one has ever imitated one in order to assault a child. The transgender people have certainly been assaulted though. Nobody wants to talk about that though.

And young boys are nearly as likely to be sexually assaulted as young girls are. I've seen the numbers at 1 in 6 boys and 1 in 4 girls, though I don't have time to look for links right now.

 

[woolybug25]

Bathrooms have stalls, so I consider them much less relevant than locker rooms and showers. Note again that this only applies to government facilities, so we're primarily talking about schools.

Yeah... schools... where they are forced, by law, to attend. Sure... they could go to a private school where they allowed it, but what if they cannot afford it or there are none available? What if they forced to go to jury duty? You act like that just because it's a government facility, that it creates no problem.

Where do either of you suggest a trans female shower after gym class? How would you feel if your fifteen year old daughter were showering with a female who has a penis?

In a shower. It's not 1982, every high school in my neck of the woods (which is pretty rural), has individual showers. Why is it also crazy to assume that they can't also have special accommodations if separate stalls aren't available? Say, let them have access before and/or after the rest of the kids. For their safety of course. It's not coordinating a rocket lift off, it's pretty easy to accommodate.

Every argument with this topic is so low on the scale of logic. Complete with scare tactics and "what-ifs".

 

[wizards8507]

Yeah... schools... where they are forced, by law, to attend. Sure... they could go to a private school where they allowed it, but what if they cannot afford it or there are none available? What if they forced to go to jury duty? You act like that just because it's a government facility, that it creates no problem.

In a shower. It's not 1982, every high school in my neck of the woods (which is pretty rural), has individual showers. Why is it also crazy to assume that they can't also have special accommodations if separate stalls aren't available? Say, let them have access before and/or after the rest of the kids. For their safety of course. It's not coordinating a rocket lift off, it's pretty easy to accommodate.

Every argument with this topic is so low on the scale of logic. Complete with scare tactics and "what-ifs".

That was the plan! If the Charlotte ordinance had been allowed to stand, the exact thing you're describing as the appropriate solution (with which I agree) would have been illegal and any place implementing such a policy would have been sued for discrimination.

 

[NorthDakota]

Yeah... schools... where they are forced, by law, to attend. Sure... they could go to a private school where they allowed it, but what if they cannot afford it or there are none available? What if they forced to go to jury duty? You act like that just because it's a government facility, that it creates no problem.



In a shower. It's not 1982, every high school in my neck of the woods (which is pretty rural), has individual showers. Why is it also crazy to assume that they can't also have special accommodations if separate stalls aren't available? Say, let them have access before and/or after the rest of the kids. For their safety of course. It's not coordinating a rocket lift off, it's pretty easy to accommodate.

Every argument with this topic is so low on the scale of logic. Complete with scare tactics and "what-ifs".

Our high school was built in '03 or '04 I believe. So pretty new at the time I was there. Showers were not private. In all the schools I went to for wrestling and football(all the biggest schools in the state and some smaller ones as well), I can't recall any with private showers.

I think it'd be tough to accommodate during school day. Typically we didn't have a lot of time to shower, get dressed, and then go to our next class. It could be accommodated I suppose though.

 

[ACamp1900]

It's not 1982, every high school in my neck of the woods (which is pretty rural), has individual showers. Why is it also crazy to assume that they can't also have special accommodations if separate stalls aren't available?

On this point: It pretty much is 1982 in many school districts wool... Every school I taught at or attended (going further back) that had any kind of showers all had/have the old school mass showers. Including the school my daughter attends which just so happened to be built like ten or so years ago. The schools out here are also dying for funds, have massively outdated tech and I could see it being very difficult to create such accommodations (not saying they eventually wouldn't or shouldn't)... just for a differing perspective.

 

[pkt77242]

Our high school was built in '03 or '04 I believe. So pretty new at the time I was there. Showers were not private. In all the schools I went to for wrestling and football(all the biggest schools in the state and some smaller ones as well), I can't recall any with private showers.

I think it'd be tough to accommodate during school day. Typically we didn't have a lot of time to shower, get dressed, and then go to our next class. It could be accommodated I suppose though.

Interestingly enough the school that I went to had "private" girls showers but the guys shower was communal.

 

[Rizzophil]

How does any 8 or 10 year KNOW that they are trapped in a wrong sexual orientation. Biology be damned.

 

[ACamp1900]

How does any 8 or 10 year KNOW that they are trapped in a wrong sexual orientation. Biology be damned.

This is where I'm at to a certain point (just on the school showers)... 8-10 may be too young for this point as they don't really start showering until Jr. High after PE and such but let's take 12 all the way through to 18...

If some boy at any age in that spectrum claims to be trans and wants to shower with my daughter and her friends,... I'm just being honest,... no. Sorry, my daughter comes first in that equation.

 

[greyhammer90]

How does any 8 or 10 year KNOW that they are trapped in a wrong sexual orientation. Biology be damned.

If some boy at any age in that spectrum claims to be trans and wants to shower with my daughter and her friends,... I'm just being honest,... I don't trust that KID for a second...

Triggered.

 

[ACamp1900]

Triggered.

Yeah I edited to make my point as clear as possible. When you have baby girls you'll better understand... like I said this isn't an easy issue, that's the one (sub)point within the greater discussion I'm def not foggy on at all though.

 

[GoIrish41]

North Carolina Lawmakers Introduce Bill To Repeal Sweeping Anti-LGBT Law

 

[GATTACA!]

Enjoyed this one:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xfO1veFs6Ho" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I loved the 1:20 mark, "Good for you, be who you are"... really???

Dear lord. This is my generation.

 

[ACamp1900]

that gif is beyond disturbing........

 

[IrishJayhawk]

that gif is beyond disturbing........

Agreed

 

[woolybug25]

That was the plan! If the Charlotte ordinance had been allowed to stand, the exact thing you're describing as the appropriate solution (with which I agree) would have been illegal and any place implementing such a policy would have been sued for discrimination.

You asked for an answer, I gave you one. Show me where it states that they would also have to give reasonable accommodation to a transgender person. Show me that specifically.

Our high school was built in '03 or '04 I believe. So pretty new at the time I was there. Showers were not private. In all the schools I went to for wrestling and football(all the biggest schools in the state and some smaller ones as well), I can't recall any with private showers.

I think it'd be tough to accommodate during school day. Typically we didn't have a lot of time to shower, get dressed, and then go to our next class. It could be accommodated I suppose though.

There is no reason that it can't be accommodated as I propose. A ton of schools already have policies in place for kids with handicaps, phobia or fear. But instead of having honest conversation about solutions, people want to talk about how it could lead to child molestation, despite there being any cases of that in the past. It's a dishonest argument that really is about making transgender people second class citizens. Not protecting young people.

On this point: It pretty much is 1982 in many school districts wool... Every school I taught at or attended (going further back) that had any kind of showers all had/have the old school mass showers. Including the school my daughter attends which just so happened to be built like ten or so years ago. The schools out here are also dying for funds, have massively outdated tech and I could see it being very difficult to create such accommodations (not saying they eventually wouldn't or shouldn't)... just for a differing perspective.

I get that. That's why I added the part about reasonable accommodation.

 

[NDohio]

Yeah... schools... where they are forced, by law, to attend. Sure... they could go to a private school where they allowed it, but what if they cannot afford it or there are none available? What if they forced to go to jury duty? You act like that just because it's a government facility, that it creates no problem.



In a shower. It's not 1982, every high school in my neck of the woods (which is pretty rural), has individual showers.

I have a junior in high school daughter and their showers are not private.

Why is it also crazy to assume that they can't also have special accommodations if separate stalls aren't available? Say, let them have access before and/or after the rest of the kids. For their safety of course. It's not coordinating a rocket lift off, it's pretty easy to accommodate.

Because you are reasonable. There have been several situations where schools have attempted to make special accommodations, and those that are having the accommodations made for them do not want special accommodations. The situation in Troy, OH stands out to me.

Every argument with this topic is so low on the scale of logic. Complete with scare tactics and "what-ifs".

 

[IrishJayhawk]

This is where I'm at to a certain point (just on the school showers)... 8-10 may be too young for this point as they don't really start showering until Jr. High after PE and such but let's take 12 all the way through to 18...

If some boy at any age in that spectrum claims to be trans and wants to shower with my daughter and her friends,... I'm just being honest,... no. Sorry, my daughter comes first in that equation.

Showering in the wrong locker room? That's a paddlin...

 

[GATTACA!]

that gif is beyond disturbing........

Agreed

Changed it out. My bad didn't mean to ruin your guys safe space.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Changed it out. My bad didn't mean to ruin your guys safe space.

See...now that one's funny.

 

[greyhammer90]

Yeah I edited to make my point as clear as possible. When you have baby girls you'll better understand... like I said this isn't an easy issue, that's the one (sub)point within the greater discussion I'm def not foggy on at all though.

Maybe I should've used italics