PJ Fleck

[ACamp1900]

Let's say Nebraska falters next year and Frost is out, would Fleck be a good fit there?

This is going to be interesting in general next year... UCLA too.

 

[Irish#1]

Marginally better, will still never compete for a NC. And he'd have to lock in for ~3 more years, no thanks if I'm him.

He's going to get a monster job. He has to wait ~6-12 more months.

Not saying he's going there or Wiscy will compete for a NC, but the Wiscy program is more than marginally better than Minnesota's.

Since 2005 Wiscy's record is 148-49. Minnesota is 90-98. Wiscy is consistently ranked.

 

[koonja]

Not saying he's going there or Wiscy will compete for a NC, but the Wiscy program is more than marginally better than Minnesota's.

Since 2005 Wiscy's record is 148-49. Minnesota is 90-98. Wiscy is consistently ranked.

It is, but it's definitely not in the top ~3 tiers.

Tier 1: Clemson, OSU, Bama.
Tier 2: Oklahoma, Georgia
Tier 3: ND, LSU, Michigan, USC (yes, they'll be tier 2 with right coach), etc.

Wisconsin would fall into a tier with the Washington's, Oregon's, etc.

All IMO.

 

[stlnd01]

So does Fleck move on this year?

I’d bet be waits another year.
FWIW, he literally just extended his contract like three weeks ago. But more importantly next year there’s more likely openings of the type that might make more sense for him - Nebraska, MSU, maybe a UCLA or even Penn State (after USC goes 8-4 again and hires Franklin). Also if Fleck can win again next year at Minnesota he’ll have a much stronger case for a bigger job.

 

[Irish#1]

It is, but it's definitely not in the top ~3 tiers.

Tier 1: Clemson, OSU, Bama.
Tier 2: Oklahoma, Georgia
Tier 3: ND, LSU, Michigan, USC (yes, they'll be tier 2 with right coach), etc.

Wisconsin would fall into a tier with the Washington's, Oregon's, etc.

All IMO.

You're moving the goalpost adding another variant (tiers). The original statement wasn't about what tier you would place Wiscy in. You just said they were marginally better than the Gophers. I simply pointed out that per their record since 2015 they were more than marginally better. You could go back to the Alvarez days and the discrepancy is still significant.

 

[koonja]

You're moving the goalpost adding another variant (tiers). The original statement wasn't about what tier you would place Wiscy in. You just said they were marginally better than the Gophers. I simply pointed out that per their record since 2015 they were more than marginally better. You could go back to the Alvarez days and the discrepancy is still significant.

Sure, Wisconsin is a little better than the Gophers.

But FSU, ND, PSU, USC, Oregon, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Oklahoma, MSU, Auburn, Michigan, V Tech, Texas, Texas AM, etc, are all better jobs that Wisconsin.

So however you want to categorize them in tiers, numbers, letters, who cares --- Wisconsin is a stepping stone from where he's currently at, and not worth locking into for 2-3 years minimum when he's a top ~6 candidate for any of the jobs above when college football changes happen rapidly.

Zero chance he takes a Wisconsin opening (not to mention Chryst would not leave).

 

[NDRock]

Sure, Wisconsin is a little better than the Gophers.

But FSU, ND, PSU, USC, Oregon, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Oklahoma, MSU, Auburn, Michigan, V Tech, Texas, Texas AM, etc, are all better jobs that Wisconsin.

So however you want to categorize them in tiers, numbers, letters, who cares --- Wisconsin is a stepping stone from where he's currently at, and not worth locking into for 2-3 years minimum when he's a top ~6 candidate for any of the jobs above when college football changes happen rapidly.

Zero chance he takes a Wisconsin opening (not to mention Chryst would not leave).

Man, Wisconsin seems like a great job. Madison is a cool place, they play in a very winnable division and they've not fired a coach in 30 years. No way I would take Ole Miss, Tennessee, MSU, V tech, Texas A&M over them. The other schools on that list all think they should win a NC every 5 years. Good luck with that. Guess it depends what you want out of life.

 

[SoIll]

will not be leaving this year. Buyout is crazy

 

[Irish#1]

Sure, Wisconsin is a little better than the Gophers.

But FSU, ND, PSU, USC, Oregon, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Oklahoma, MSU, Auburn, Michigan, V Tech, Texas, Texas AM, etc, are all better jobs that Wisconsin.

So however you want to categorize them in tiers, numbers, letters, who cares --- Wisconsin is a stepping stone from where he's currently at, and not worth locking into for 2-3 years minimum when he's a top ~6 candidate for any of the jobs above when college football changes happen rapidly.

Zero chance he takes a Wisconsin opening (not to mention Chryst would not leave).

Damn it Koon stay focused here buddy. I'll say it more slowly.

YOU SAID WISCONSIN WAS JUST MARGINALLY BETTER THAN MINNESOTA. I POINTED OUT THAT BY THEIR RECORDS WISCONSIN IS MORE THAN MARGINALLY BETTER. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HIM GOING TO WISCONSIN.

 

[ACamp1900]

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HIM GOING TO WISCONSIN.

You just did tho....

 

[NDdomer2]

Damn it Koon stay focused here buddy. I'll say it more slowly.

YOU SAID WISCONSIN WAS JUST MARGINALLY BETTER THAN MINNESOTA. I POINTED OUT THAT BY THEIR RECORDS WISCONSIN IS MORE THAN MARGINALLY BETTER. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HIM GOING TO WISCONSIN.

lol nor did you or anyone say anything about tiers of football jobs.

 

[koonja]

Damn it Koon stay focused here buddy. I'll say it more slowly.

YOU SAID WISCONSIN WAS JUST MARGINALLY BETTER THAN MINNESOTA. I POINTED OUT THAT BY THEIR RECORDS WISCONSIN IS MORE THAN MARGINALLY BETTER. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HIM GOING TO WISCONSIN.

They're significantly better at winning 8-9 games.

They're marginally better as far as "compete for titles". Yeah, Wisconsin is closer, but they're both so far off it really doesn't matter. Program's aren't valued based on "recent wins" alone. If so, Navy would be up there and FSU might never come back.

FWIW, The Athletic listed 14 teams that can win a NC in modern CFB. Neither Minnesota or Wisconsin are on there (ND isn't either, btw).

 

[NDohio]

Damn it Koon stay focused here buddy. I'll say it more slowly.

YOU SAID WISCONSIN WAS JUST MARGINALLY BETTER THAN MINNESOTA. I POINTED OUT THAT BY THEIR RECORDS WISCONSIN IS MORE THAN MARGINALLY BETTER. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HIM GOING TO WISCONSIN.

Hmmm...I never tried arguing with Koon in all caps...Let me know how that works out...

They're significantly better at winning 8-9 games.

They're marginally better as far as "compete for titles". Yeah, Wisconsin is closer, but they're both so far off it really doesn't matter. Program's aren't valued based on "recent wins" alone. If so, Navy would be up there and FSU might never come back.

FWIW, The Athletic listed 14 teams that can win a NC in modern CFB. Neither Minnesota or Wisconsin are on there (ND isn't either, btw).

...nevermind...

 

[NorthDakota]

Let's say Nebraska falters next year and Frost is out, would Fleck be a good fit there?

My people in Lincoln tell me that Frost is going to be given time. They genuinely believe if he can't get them to be relevant again, no one can. Scott Frost is going nowhere.

 

[Irish#1]

You just did tho....

Don't be a smart ass.

 

[koonja]

I'm not moving any goal post, I just don't agree with your arbitrary measure of a "program" (that you never defined, btw).

They truly are a marginally better program than the Gophers because neither team really matters for a NC.

They win a couple more games per year, great, but we all know when they go to Indy at 8-4 and lose 59-0, and likely the same thing Saturday, they don't matter.

So yes, they're a marginally better program in the grand scheme of things.

If the made up goal is "8 wins", they're significantly better - but no one cares about that.

 

[zelezo vlk]

My people in Lincoln tell me that Frost is going to be given time. They genuinely believe if he can't get them to be relevant again, no one can. Scott Frost is going nowhere.

I figured as much, I was more wondering aloud if he could actually kickstart enthusiasm and work in Lincoln.

 

[Irish#1]

They're significantly better at winning 8-9 games.

They're marginally better as far as "compete for titles". Yeah, Wisconsin is closer, but they're both so far off it really doesn't matter. Program's aren't valued based on "recent wins" alone. If so, Navy would be up there and FSU might never come back.

I'm not moving any goal post, I just don't agree with your arbitrary measure of a "program" (that you never defined, btw).

8-9 wins? Since 2005 Wisconsin has won.
2005 - 10-3
2006 - 12-1
2007 - 9-4
2008 - 7-6
2009 - 10-3
2010 - 11-2
2011 - 11-3
2012 - 8-6
2013 - 9-4
2014 - 11-3
2015 - 10-3
2016 - 11-3
2017 - 13-1
2018 - 8-5
2019 - 10-2

Wisconsin has been averaging 10 wins a season since 2005. During that same time the Gophers have averaged 6 wins a season. They are more than marginally better than Minnesota. If I'm wrong, I assume others on here will point that out. You defined the arbitrary measure as "Marginally". The dictionary defines marginally as:

mar·gin·al·ly
adverb
to only a limited extent; slightly.
"inflation is predicted to drop marginally"

Note the bolded part. Any way you want to look at it, 10 wins a season is more than marginally better than 6 wins a season. Throwing in your new goal post about winning a NC, I agree Wiscy isn't winning a NC anytime soon, but the chances that they do are more than marginally better than Minnesota's.

 

[condoms SUCk]

My people in Lincoln tell me that Frost is going to be given time. They genuinely believe if he can't get them to be relevant again, no one can. Scott Frost is going nowhere.

Yeah, I would imagine they'll give him at minimum of 5 yrs to at least show that they can compete for the B10 West. No way they beat tOSU, but show some signs of life by actually going to the B10CCG.
IMO, that would be good enough for a couple extra years to see if he could close the gap.

People are asking if Fleck would be willing to go to Wisconsin, I think the more appropriate question is- "Would Wisconsin even entertain the idea of hiring Fleck?" I say he!l no. (not b/c he's not good enough, more that he was the HC at Minny)

P.S. Koon is a closet Whisky lover

 

[Whiskeyjack]

P.S. Koon is a closet Whisky lover

There's no sense in denying my charm.

 

[NDRock]

8-9 wins? Since 2005 Wisconsin has won.
2005 - 10-3
2006 - 12-1
2007 - 9-4
2008 - 7-6
2009 - 10-3
2010 - 11-2
2011 - 11-3
2012 - 8-6
2013 - 9-4
2014 - 11-3
2015 - 10-3
2016 - 11-3
2017 - 13-1
2018 - 8-5
2019 - 10-2

Apparently they've been averaging 10 wins a season since 2005.

Yeah, Wisconsin is head and shoulders above Minnesota and it's not even close.

 

[stlnd01]

Wisconsin is probably the fourth best job - and third-best program - in the Big Ten. Minnesota is, what, 8th or 9th at best? (As a job I’d put it ahead of Rutgers, Northwestern, maybe Purdue or Illinois).

Yeah Wisconsin is a better job. Whether it’s better enough to tempt Fleck is an interesting question.

 

[ACamp1900]

Wait until Minnesota gets a real head coach tho....

 

[koonja]

As far as BIG 10 programs:

OSU

Michigan
PSU





MSU/Wisconsin?

Wisconsin has been out kicking their coverage for a decade by good coaching and beating up on FCS/MAC team. But no one raises a stink about that like they do with the SEC because no one cares about Wisconsin.

They're the cute, friendly program everyone routes for because they realize they're not a top dog and their success threatens NOBODY.

 

[condoms SUCk]

As far as BIG 10 programs:

OSU

Michigan
PSU





MSU/Wisconsin?

Wisconsin has been out kicking their coverage for a decade by good coaching and beating up on FCS/MAC team. But no one raises a stink about that like they do with the SEC because no one cares about Wisconsin.

They're the cute, friendly program everyone routes for because they realize they're not a top dog and their success threatens NOBODY.

With the crap that's going on with the MSU Athletic Dept, I would definitely move Wisconsin ahead of MSU.

 

[NorthDakota]

Wisconsin is probably the fourth best job - and third-best program - in the Big Ten. Minnesota is, what, 8th or 9th at best? (As a job I’d put it ahead of Rutgers, Northwestern, maybe Purdue or Illinois).

Yeah Wisconsin is a better job. Whether it’s better enough to tempt Fleck is an interesting question.

Minnesota is better than Indiana and Maryland as well I would think.

Minnesota actually should be a pretty good program. Big school. Only game in the state, no big fish nearby, Minneapolis churns out some very good football players too. Could cherry pick the occasional players from the Dakotas and Winnipeg.

For whatever reason they are inept most of the time.

 

[Wild Bill]

My people in Lincoln tell me that Frost is going to be given time. They genuinely believe if he can't get them to be relevant again, no one can. Scott Frost is going nowhere.

I'm somewhat surprised Frost hasn't had more success than he has in his first two years but I think he'll be fine at Nebraska, especially if Lincoln Riley leaves for the NFL. They're not rivals on the field but Oklahoma taking a step back will help with recruiting in that region. The BIG west is less than spectacular which helps too.

 

[stlnd01]

Minnesota is better than Indiana and Maryland as well I would think.

Minnesota actually should be a pretty good program. Big school. Only game in the state, no big fish nearby, Minneapolis churns out some very good football players too. Could cherry pick the occasional players from the Dakotas and Winnipeg.

For whatever reason they are inept most of the time.

Their new on-campus stadium certainly helps. But they’re competing for eyeballs in a pro sports town (the smallest market with all four major pro sports, btw). Recruiting turf is just OK (I haven’t quantified but I’d bet more top recruits come out of Maryland/DC, for instance). Weather’s got be a challenge for recruiting kids from elsewhere.

I dunno, one could debate a bunch of programs in the bottom half of the Big Ten, but the fact Minnesota has really never emerged from that morass is telling.

Wisconsin, OTOH, has a history of winning, owns a sizable state, closer to Chicago for recruiting purposes, etc.

 

[NDRock]

Their new on-campus stadium certainly helps. But they’re competing for eyeballs in a pro sports town (the smallest market with all four major pro sports, btw). Recruiting turf is just OK (I haven’t quantified but I’d bet more top recruits come out of Maryland/DC, for instance). Weather’s got be a challenge for recruiting kids from elsewhere.

I dunno, one could debate a bunch of programs in the bottom half of the Big Ten, but the fact Minnesota has really never emerged from that morass is telling.

Wisconsin, OTOH, has a history of winning, owns a sizable state, closer to Chicago for recruiting purposes, etc.

I think Wisconsin (Barry Alverez) has also done a great job of creating an identity. They recruit and play to a certain style and I think it has really helped them stay consistent, regardless of the coach.

Look at ND. Offensively we went from an option attack, to a west coast offense, to a pro style, to a spread. Our defense has been all over the place (4-3, 3-4) with total opposite philosophies. Corwin Brown, Tenuta, Diaco, BVG, Elko/Lea. It's a big reason why we've been so inconsistent. Well, that and hiring idiots.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

FWIW, The Athletic listed 14 teams that can win a NC in modern CFB. Neither Minnesota or Wisconsin are on there (ND isn't either, btw).

I want to play, lemme know how many out of my 14 were wrong:


Alabama
Clemson
Ohio State
LSU
Oklahoma
Georgia
Penn State
Michigan
Florida
Florida State
USC
Texas
Auburn

Oregon?




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