Offensive Line Thread

[Irish#1]

Hiestand’s family still living in South Bend

The pieces are coming together.

 

[EvilleIrish]

OC.

I'm not in love with the Tommy Rees as OC concept. If he shined in the bowl game against an inferior opponent, maybe I'd be open to it.

But 3 weeks to prepare, inferior opponent, coaching for a promotion... and my only thought after watching was "if that was Chip Long's play calling I'd be disappointed".

I know he would come in as OC, but are there any coordinators that don’t also coach a specific position group?

 

[Riddickulous]

Do we have room on the staff for two new hires, though?

 

[greyhammer90]

I know he would come in as OC, but are there any coordinators that don’t also coach a specific position group?

No. Someone would have to leave if we hired two coaches.

 

[317Irish]

I have no idea if it'd be the right move, but if you told me:



- Helfirch at OC

- Harry at OL

- Quinn moved to TEs

Talk about continuity. You keep Quinn and fill a void. You bring in Harry who recruited all of the starters besides Patterson, and Helfrich and Harry know how to work together.

I'd be very excited by the prospect of that.

I don’t believe we have the room to bring in an additional coach as part of the staff. Otherwise, I would also be intrigued by adding both of those guys.

 

[zelezo vlk]

This might be controversial, but if Harry doesn't want to recruit I'd pass.

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[IrishFanJMercy]

OC.

I'm not in love with the Tommy Rees as OC concept. If he shined in the bowl game against an inferior opponent, maybe I'd be open to it.

But 3 weeks to prepare, inferior opponent, coaching for a promotion... and my only thought after watching was "if that was Chip Long's play calling I'd be disappointed".

Inferior opponent? Are we talking about the same Iowa State team that lost to oklahoma by 1 and baylor 2 I think your opinion is dumb. I thought Reese calle a great game, could it have been better yes but I love what I saw

 

[Luckylucci]

OC.

I'm not in love with the Tommy Rees as OC concept. If he shined in the bowl game against an inferior opponent, maybe I'd be open to it.

But 3 weeks to prepare, inferior opponent, coaching for a promotion... and my only thought after watching was "if that was Chip Long's play calling I'd be disappointed".

Dude, now you're just trying too hard. 22nd defense in the country by S&P+ going into the game (3rd best we faced all year). We averaged over 7 yds/play. Book's only game against a Power 5 team with over 70% comp pct.

https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/11419/re-watch-notes-notre-dame-offense-in-the-camping-world-bowl/1

Whether or not he gets the job or is right for it. That was a very good performance by him and the offense. Very good.

 

[koonja]

Inferior opponent? Are we talking about the same Iowa State team that lost to oklahoma by 1 and baylor 2 I think your opinion is dumb. I thought Reese calle a great game, could it have been better yes but I love what I saw

Thanks for the merry comment... Agree to disagree then.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

I want nothing to do with Helfirch.
He's the exact opposite of what we're moving towards offensively. Ditch the razzle dazzle/metro sexual/lateral movement/up tempo spread.
BK wants power football now (thankfully).

 

[arrowryan]

I want nothing to do with Helfirch.
He's the exact opposite of what we're moving towards offensively. Ditch the razzle dazzle/metro sexual/lateral movement/up tempo spread.
BK wants power football now (thankfully).

I wouldn’t call it power football. Running shotgun on 3rd and 1 is not power football.

But he also isn’t running an offense that goes at a blistering speed like Oregon did. But if BK thinks Helfrich could help the offense then I’m for it.

 

[BabyIrish]

I want nothing to do with Helfirch.
He's the exact opposite of what we're moving towards offensively. Ditch the razzle dazzle/metro sexual/lateral movement/up tempo spread.
BK wants power football now (thankfully).

Agreed. Where has Helfrich been successful on his own. We all know Chip Kelly ran his offense not Helfrich. Helfrich didn’t last long after Kelly moved on. He did nothing for the Bears. I’d take Rees a million times over Helfrich.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

This might be controversial, but if Harry doesn't want to recruit I'd pass.

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I am with you in my lack of enthusiasm.

 

[NDisme]

I'm in favor of Heistand if we maybe move Quinn to TEs and let him do the heavy lifting with recruiting. All Heistand needs to say are the names McGlinchey, Stanley, Nelson, Martin, Joe Moore etc

 

[ab2cmiller]

I can't think of anything more divisive to the offensive line group as a whole than to bring back HH. You got one group that would be loyal to HH and another group that would be loyal to Quinn and would feel that Quinn got shafted.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Hard pass on HH.

You can't afford to have a weak recruiter on your staff these days. If Hiestand isn't willing to recruit, then definitely not.

Also, HH was good at developing individual talent, but not so much at developing cohesive elite units. A lot of the things we complain about with Quinn, were issues under Hiestand as well. Perhaps Long was the common denominator, but again, at least Quinn is an active recruiter.

 

[BeauBenken]

To my knowledge, Hiestand split for reasons that I would have a hard time guessing he could just come back.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

To my knowledge, Hiestand split for reasons that I would have a hard time guessing he could just come back.

More details? I always just assumed he left because the Bears job is an obvious step up.

 

[ThePiombino]

To my knowledge, Hiestand split for reasons that I would have a hard time guessing he could just come back.

Are you implying he was urged to take another job?

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[stlnd01]

More details? I always just assumed he left because the Bears job is an obvious step up.

Also he was coming off developing a couple of all-world players in Nelson and McGlinchey, and perhaps was tired of recruiting, also something about having enough years in the NFL to qualify for his pension or something. Never got the sense there was hard feelings.

 

[stlnd01]

Do we have room on the staff for two new hires, though?

There is some sense that Lyght will move on, right? Do we actually need a dedicated CB coach AND a dedicated Safeties coach, or can Terry Joseph do both?

 

[IrishLax]

More details? I always just assumed he left because the Bears job is an obvious step up.

We’ve talked about it on here previously I believe. Has to do with his coaching style and conduct, and how it was received by some players no longer with the program.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

There is some sense that Lyght will move on, right? Do we actually need a dedicated CB coach AND a dedicated Safeties coach, or can Terry Joseph do both?

That would make for 3 defensive assistants vs. 5 offensive. That seems like a concern from a meeting room perspective - espcially with a HC who leans toward hands off with the defense.

 

[GUknights75]

My take is that if we take HH, Quinn would bail. From Head coach to a non coaching assistant at ND then promoted to Oline coach just to essentially be demoted to TE coach. And like its been said before, the problems that we complain about with Quinn and the OL have been here since HH.

 

[Wild Bill]

I want nothing to do with Helfirch.
He's the exact opposite of what we're moving towards offensively. Ditch the razzle dazzle/metro sexual/lateral movement/up tempo spread.
BK wants power football now (thankfully).

I'm sick of this beta metro sexual run game too man.

 

[stlnd01]

That would make for 3 defensive assistants vs. 5 offensive. That seems like a concern from a meeting room perspective - espcially with a HC who leans toward hands off with the defense.

Yeah. Agree that's not ideal. Another potential mover-on had been Polian, who has clearly been angling for a HC job the last couple of years. That could've opened up a spot and you have someone coach ST as a side job. But I guess that wasn't in the cards this time around.

Thing is, I'd think any outside OC hire would like to bring on at least one assistant of his own. Not sure how that squares with the current staff. I guess you could see Del Alexander or Quinn moved along. Myself I definitely don't want Rees or Taylor going anywhere.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

HH -> OL coach
Quinn -> ST coordinator (he can still help out OL and TE when not doing ST work)
Polian -> LB coach (which allows Leah to move around during practice)
Then hire an outside OC a RB, TE, or WR coach. Lance Taylor can move to WR if needed and Del Alexander can move to TE if needed.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

My take is that if we take HH, Quinn would bail. From Head coach to a non coaching assistant at ND then promoted to Oline coach just to essentially be demoted to TE coach. And like its been said before, the problems that we complain about with Quinn and the OL have been here since HH.

People keep repeating this, but I don't see it. Our OL was truly elite under Hiestand in almost every sense of the word. No, he didn't enjoy recruiting, and he was an infamously surly coach whose personality turned some people off. But the best OL recruits still jumped at the chance to be developed by him, and despite his personality, guys like Z. Martin, McG, Q and Stanley couldn't praise him highly enough.

He left and our ALY dropped off a cliff. We improved this year, but we still seriously underperformed our talent level. Hopefully a lot of this was attributable to Long's stubborn insistence on gap-blocking; if so, incorporating more zone principles into our running game may quickly get us back to where we should be in 2020.

But this talk about Hiestand having flaws, not being perfect, etc. strikes me as obvious sour grapes. He was easily the best OL coach we've had since Joe Moore.

 

[dad4aa]

People keep repeating this, but I don't see it. Our OL was truly elite under Hiestand in almost every sense of the word. No, he didn't enjoy recruiting, and he was an infamously surly coach whose personality turned some people off. But the best OL recruits still jumped at the chance to be developed by him, and despite his personality, guys like Z. Martin, McG, Q and Stanley couldn't praise him highly enough.

He left and our ALY dropped off a cliff. We improved this year, but we still seriously underperformed our talent level. Hopefully a lot of this was attributable to Long's stubborn insistence on gap-blocking; if so, incorporating more zone principles into our running game may quickly get us back to where we should be in 2020.

But this talk about Hiestand having flaws, not being perfect, etc. strikes me as obvious sour grapes. He was easily the best OL coach we've had since Joe Moore.

Agree with all of this, great post.

 

[NDdomer2]

People keep repeating this, but I don't see it. Our OL was truly elite under Hiestand in almost every sense of the word. No, he didn't enjoy recruiting, and he was an infamously surly coach whose personality turned some people off. But the best OL recruits still jumped at the chance to be developed by him, and despite his personality, guys like Z. Martin, McG, Q and Stanley couldn't praise him highly enough.

He left and our ALY dropped off a cliff. We improved this year, but we still seriously underperformed our talent level. Hopefully a lot of this was attributable to Long's stubborn insistence on gap-blocking; if so, incorporating more zone principles into our running game may quickly get us back to where we should be in 2020.

But this talk about Hiestand having flaws, not being perfect, etc. strikes me as obvious sour grapes. He was easily the best OL coach we've had since Joe Moore.

I put a chart on together of our oline rankings from a site you provided and we def. Didn't have some elite olines under Heistand and even had some below average metrics on our best olines with him.

Ignoring those facts would also strike me as bias.

It ultimately comes down to do you think Harry developed generational talents or did he just ID them and not get in their way.