Oct 4 | Stanford

[dang227]

He's a fucking whiner. Get over it. They blew the whistle.


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[ickythump1225]

Lol.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Stanford HC David Shaw on '12 controversial L at Notre Dame: "I'd put that in the same box as the Tuck Rule game." Shaw w/ Raiders in '01</p>— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) <a href="https://twitter.com/wilnerhotline/status/517080347461566464">September 30, 2014</a></blockquote>
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I'm tired of hearing about that "controversy." We stopped Taylor and replay confirmed that. The only "controversy" was the made up one ESPN generated.

 

[IrishLax]

The funniest thing about that game... besides the fact that it wasn't even close to one of the worst calls I've seen... is that Stanford scored zero offensive touchdowns all day and was attempting to tie the game... not win it.

If you looked at win % stuff they were -- at absolute best -- a 50% shot to win EVEN IF THEY GAVE HIM A TOUCHDOWN. So I really, really hate how they act like "we would've won but #refs"

 

[Wild Bill]

Rain would help Stanford. We'll surely be passing more than the Cardinal.

Not necessarily a bad thing if Golson can sling it in the rain. It's harder to cover a receiver on a slick surface than it is to run routes to a pre-determined spot.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Not necessarily a bad thing if Golson can sling it in the rain. It's harder to cover a receiver on a slick surface than it is to run routes to a pre-determined spot.

Isn't conventional wisdom that wind and rain favor power running teams over pass-first spreads?

 

[ACamp1900]

Isn't conventional wisdom that wind and rain favor power running teams over pass-first spreads?

Here at IE we prefer Convection to Convention... whichever way the winds are blowing...

 

[PerthDomer]

Strong wins hurt passing generally but if the rain's not a monsoon it generally doesn't hurt passing. My fear is a wind stops Brindza from booting it into the endzone and Montgomery becomes dangerous on KO return.

 

[IrishLax]

My thought is:
1. Their kicker sucks already in ideal conditions, so it's fun to think about him trying to kick in the windy wet cold.
2. Stanford kills themselves with mistakes, and bad conditions should exacerbate that.
3. Neither Washington or USC are exactly "Alabama" against the run... and look at Stanford's YPC in those games. This is not the Stanford we're used to. They have not shown they can just pound the ball on the ground.
4. Hogan has a QBR of 37.9 against Power 5 teams right now. That's terrible. Golson has a QBR of 77.5, which is solid. I trust Golson to make plays a lot better in adverse conditions than a guy who struggles mightily to throw any kind of deep ball in even moderate conditions.

The bad news:
1. Wet weather = not good for our WRs who have shown to have some dropsies.
2. Wet weather can lead to injuries and we're much less deep than Stanford.
3. In a war of attrition should no one be able to move the ball, Stanford is better in the trenches.

 

[dshans]

Here at IE we prefer Convection to Convention... whichever way the winds are blowing...

So what is your take on Sous Vide?

Whichever way the boiling water bubbles?

 

[Wild Bill]

Isn't conventional wisdom that wind and rain favor power running teams over pass-first spreads?

Wind for sure. It'll kill the best passing game. Rain isn't as easy to predict. It really hinges on the QB, IMO. Some can throw a slick ball no problem and others struggle. If it doesn't interrupt the QB, I think the DBs are at a disadvantage covering these freaks running all over the field. It's just hard to back pedal, turn and run with receivers in the rain. Not implying running routes on a slick surface is easy, it's just easier than trying to cover someone.

It's becoming less and less of an issue b/c of turf and increased zone run blocking but it can be a struggle run blocking and driving defenders in the rain. As we all know, offensive linemen love cheating - holding, in particular. It's really hard to latch on and hold a defender in the rain b/c they're slick. And it's damn near impossible to drive block defensive linemen without footing (probably not an issue here b/c of the turf).

 

[Booslum31]

Wind for sure. It'll kill the best passing game. Rain isn't as easy to predict. It really hinges on the QB, IMO. Some can throw a slick ball no problem and others struggle. If it doesn't interrupt the QB, I think the DBs are at a disadvantage covering these freaks running all over the field. It's just hard to back pedal, turn and run with receivers in the rain. Not implying running routes on a slick surface is easy, it's just easier than trying to cover someone.

It's becoming less and less of an issue b/c of turf and increased zone run blocking but it can be a struggle run blocking and driving defenders in the rain. As we all know, offensive linemen love cheating - holding, in particular. It's really hard to latch on and hold a defender in the rain b/c they're slick. And it's damn near impossible to drive block defensive linemen without footing (probably not an issue here b/c of the turf).

I watched Jim Kelly and the Bills demolish (except Super Bowls) teams in some of the most horrendous weather. As time went on, we starting hoping for crappy weather. You are right...D-Backs are at an extreme disadvantage in wet conditions IF you have a quarterback with E.T. fingers and gripping the ball isnt a problem for him.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Not necessarily a bad thing if Golson can sling it in the rain. It's harder to cover a receiver on a slick surface than it is to run routes to a pre-determined spot.

I agree with this completely...on the wet turf there is a HUGE advantage for the WRs who knows when and where they are going to break and cut, while the DBs covering them are reading and reacting and have much less margin for error as they have to be able to change direction, plant and drive on the wet surface at the drop of a dime. If the wind kicks in, or it becomes a downpour, advantage negated and I would say those conditions favor a team with the ability to run the football...that being said there is no guarantee Stanford will be able to run the football either. Our defense is pretty stout themselves.

 

[NDALA]

Just started watching the Stanford press conference on Youtube and WTF is up with BK's hair? Haha Damn he looks like a fool! I know that has nothing to do with the game but I can't be the only one who noticed and thought that.

 

[nd_fan]

I can see Golson trying to run more himself if the rain becomes an issue for the passing game.

 

[CanadianIrishFan306]

If it does rain thank god we have turf now.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

A) Watching the Syracuse game for a second time I watched both lines. The loathing on this site, and everywhere else for the offensive line is because everyone accepts Herbie's and Fowler's narrative. They were talking about ND's offensive line woes, and continued woes as ND got 3 first downs on the 95 yard drive by ground and averaged over 5 yards a carry on that drive. In fact the only run I saw that was shorter that five yards was the "delay sneak" by EG which converted a 3rd and two. On that play there was a hole a mile wide. If he had hit it just a little faster he would have gotten serious yards.

So if ND gets its offensive timing right line, backs and receivers. I don't see a problem.

B) This week I think it is appropriate that we play a team that has the "number 1 rated defense" in so many areas. I strongly believe that by the end of the game, the ND defense will have the look of a better defense than that statistical leader does.

Strong feelings about this game. Strong game.

 

[#1rish]

Huh, just realized this was an afternoon game. They made last week's game primetime but not this?

 

[koonja]

Huh, just realized this was an afternoon game. They made last week's game primetime but not this?

ND stadium seems set on only one night game per year (and after leaving campus Sunday and seeing it trashed, I understand why, lol).

Last week was away, so it was Syracuse's call.

 

[rocket66]

Oct 4 | Stanford

Agree Bogs. I also just watched it last night and it seemed like Herbie and Fowler were trying to talk themselves into their pre-game narrative of offensive line issues/running the ball. Our. 3 backs averaged 5.0, 4.6, and 4.1 YPC and 130 yards total. It wasn't a huge total, but it's like they all of the sudden expected BK's offense to look like Wisconsin and pound the ball on every drive. They fail to mention that the swing passes, bubble screens, etc are also an extension of the running game in BK's offense.

Homer glasses on here, but it almost feels like the team is pretty solid across the board and they are reaching big time for a weakness. It was annoying as hell listening to Fowler beating it to death. The only weakness that night was the stupid turnovers, which they impressively overcame with ease.
BK mentioned in the post-game interview that they were loading the box, so he continued to get the ball out side quickly to combat that. The fact that Herbie and Fowler failed to mention that is beyond stupid. It was a perfectly called game by BK.

 

[PANDFAN]

Agree Bogs. I also just watched it last night and it seemed like Herbie and Fowler were trying to talk themselves into their pre-game narrative of offensive line issues/running the ball. Our. 3 backs averaged 5.0, 4.6, and 4.1 YPC and 130 yards total. It wasn't a huge total, but it's like they all of the sudden expected BK's offense to look like Wisconsin and pound the ball on every drive. They fail to mention that the swing passes, bubble screens, etc are also an extension of the running game in BK's offense.

Homer glasses on here, but it almost feels like the team is pretty solid across the board and they are reaching big time for a weakness. It was annoying as hell listening to Fowler beating it to death. The only weakness that night was the stupid turnovers, which they impressively overcame with ease.
BK mentioned in the post-game interview that they were loading the box, so he continued to get the ball out side quickly to combat that. The fact that Herbie and Fowler failed to mention that is beyond stupid. It was a perfectly called game by BK.

completely disagree...this was mentioned several times specifically by Herbie...i would say at least 3x's

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Agree Bogs. I also just watched it last night and it seemed like Herbie and Fowler were trying to talk themselves into their pre-game narrative of offensive line issues/running the ball. Our. 3 backs averaged 5.0, 4.6, and 4.1 YPC and 130 yards total. It wasn't a huge total, but it's like they all of the sudden expected BK's offense to look like Wisconsin and pound the ball on every drive. They fail to mention that the swing passes, bubble screens, etc are also an extension of the running game in BK's offense.

Homer glasses on here, but it almost feels like the team is pretty solid across the board and they are reaching big time for a weakness. It was annoying as hell listening to Fowler beating it to death. The only weakness that night was the stupid turnovers, which they impressively overcame with ease.
BK mentioned in the post-game interview that they were loading the box, so he continued to get the ball out side quickly to combat that. The fact that Herbie and Fowler failed to mention that is beyond stupid. It was a perfectly called game by BK.

Exactly, Herbie talked at one point about getting a lot of grief over predicting a 7-5 season for Notre Dame. His comment was an apology of sorts that went like, "everybody that gives me a hard time making this prediction, and having the team go 3 and 0, has to remember that ND has like only two returning starters on defense and four or five on offense, and their quarterback hasn't played for a year . . . etc."

So right now I believe everyone is going to try to make ND and Kelly look bad, or at least make their weaknesses look bigger. And this inexperienced team is ripe for the pickings! It is just pushback for doing better than anyone, especially the "experts" expected. Kelly makes the heads look stupid with his player development, (which he is clearly emphasizing every chance he gets to say it), and now he is making the experts look stupid with his results on the field. Expect more purple face, kid killing, negative narratives this year. For the whole season, or at least until the media turns ND into an underdog favorite like they did (somewhat) two years ago.

 

[rocket66]

completely disagree...this was mentioned several times specifically by Herbie...i would say at least 3x's

Right, and then he reverted right back to his original narrative. It was an inconsistent analysis.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

completely disagree...this was mentioned several times specifically by Herbie...i would say at least 3x's

You are right, they mentioned the screen game as an extension of the running game. But they still implied strongly that this was because ND failed at "running it up the middle." It was used as an apology by Fowler, like see they can't traditionally run the ball, but Kelly counts this strong screen game as part of the run game.

So you both are right. But the point is, I believe Fowler was saying that to disparage Kelly's attack. When what you saw with this incredible screen game that had not been evident before game 4, was that it was enabled in part by the line reshuffling, and may have been the goal of the reshuffling. As opposed to being able to run the ball better against a stacked box, which so many seem to want.

What everyone saw Saturday night was ND responding to a stacked box with a deadly screen game averaging around 10 yards a play for a period, that was so devastating that in forced Syracuse out of an overloaded box, and the ability to disguise which direction the blitz was coming from, like with the one sack on EG.

What everyone should have seen was load the box, screen game for success, unload the box, run inside zone or pass to receivers behind the linebackers. Kelly took a successful coach, (the one who helped Stanford beat the USC team we couldn't), and a defensive coordinator he selected, and negated their scheming all night.

With the stats, (because this game wasn't as close to the score), people should realize Kelly and VanGorder owned the night and the game, because they diagnosed, then countered everything 'Cuse did, and used superior talent to overwhelm them!

 

[PANDFAN]

A prime storyline of this weekend’s matchup between No. 9 Notre Dame and No. 14 Stanford (per the Associated Press) is it shapes up to be a defensive slugfest.

Jaylon Smith and the Irish defense are striving to continue their success this weekend against Stanford.

That’s because the Cardinal leads the nation in scoring defense (6.5 points per game), pass defense (74.0 points per game) and total defense (198.0 points per game). Especially impressive is Stanford has played 27 straight games without allowing an opponent to score 30 or more points, easily the longest current streak nationally. A distant second with 11 apiece are Iowa, Louisville and Ole Miss.

The Irish haven’t been chopped liver either while ranking fourth in scoring defense (11.5).

However, whereas Notre Dame has tallied at least 30 points in each of its first four games for the first time since the national title campaign in 1943, Stanford had problems scoring points in its two Pac-12 league games, losing 13-10 at home to USC on Sept. 13 and winning 20-13 last week at Washington — to a Huskies team that surrendered 52 to Eastern Washington during a 59-52 victory.

Nevertheless, Irish head coach Brian Kelly said “both” teams are trying to find themselves offensively — specifically because of the lines — and are a work in progress there. The Cardinal had to find four new starters this year along the offensive line, while Notre Dame over the last two weeks has changed the position of four offensive line starters in an attempt to get better surge for the running game and better pass protection along the perimeter.

Among 125 Football Bowl Subdivision teams, Stanford is a modest 77th in scoring with a 27.5 points per game average. Turnovers and red-zone inefficiency have been particularly damaging to the Cardinal. Its nine turnovers (seven fumbles, two interceptions) are tied for 85th nationally, but its nothing compared to the No. 118 ranking in the red zone. Of the 19 opportunities it has had at or inside the opponent’s 20, Stanford has scored only eight touchdowns, made four field goals and came away with zero points an alarming seven times.

“Both of us are trying to find that consistency [on offense],” Kelly said. “They have had some turnovers. We have been pretty good in the red zone. They haven’t probably felt like they have been as effective in the red zone as they would like.”

One missing element has been a bellcow back in the mold of Tyler Gaffney, Stepfan Taylor or Toby Gerhart. In 2009, Heisman Trophy runner-up Gerhart carried 29 times for 205 yards versus the Irish, from 2010-12 Taylor averaged 25.3 carries against Notre Dame while eclipsing 100 yards rushing each time, and last year Gaffney recorded 33 carries for 189 yards while leading Stanford to its fourth win in five seasons over the Irish.

This year, Stanford is almost identical to Notre Dame with a three-headed running attack — with none having more than 29 carries total through the first four games. Barry Sanders Jr. (5-10, 198) has rushed for 153 yards, followed by Remound Wright (5-9, 205) with 151 and Kelsey Young (5-10, 191) at 144. All average at least 5.2 yards per carry — but none has tallied a single touchdown.

“These are complete backs,” Kelly noted. “They do all phases of the run — they are not specialists, if you will. Good inside, outside runners. That’s why they are playing three of them, because all three of them have very similar skill sets.”

Kelly said all the pieces are in place to fit a standard physical, productive Stanford offense:

• Quarterback Kevin Hogan is a third-year starter and a running threat (a team high 34 carries, and both rushing TDs).
• The line led by junior tackle Andrus Peat was ranked No. 1 nationally among its position groups during the 2012 recruiting season.
• The tight end, unlike last year, is back in the mix, with Austin Hooper and Eric Cotton combining for 19 catches and 261 yards through four games.
• The receiving tandem of Ty Montgomery and Devon Cajuste might be as dynamic as any Notre Dame confronts this year.

The 6-2 Montgomery was a consensus All-America kick returner last year (including 51- and 34-yard kickoff returns to set up two scores in last year’s win over Notre Dame). Meanwhile, the 6-4 Cajuste caught a 16-yard touchdown against the Irish last season and also had 23- and 36-yard receptions (setting up a second TD). He averaged a single season school record 22.9 yards per catch.

“Peat at the offensive line is one of the best in the country,” Kelly said. “They have got the physical offensive line and an experienced quarterback. They have got a match-up problem guy with Devon and then great skill with Ty. They have got all the pieces there … it’s just a matter of time.

“We just hope it’s not this Saturday.”

Notre Dame-Stanford: Taking The Offensive

 

[Bogtrotter07]

A prime storyline of this weekend’s matchup between No. 9 Notre Dame and No. 14 Stanford (per the Associated Press) is it shapes up to be a defensive slugfest.

Jaylon Smith and the Irish defense are striving to continue their success this weekend against Stanford.

That’s because the Cardinal leads the nation in scoring defense (6.5 points per game), pass defense (74.0 points per game) and total defense (198.0 points per game). Especially impressive is Stanford has played 27 straight games without allowing an opponent to score 30 or more points, easily the longest current streak nationally. A distant second with 11 apiece are Iowa, Louisville and Ole Miss.

The Irish haven’t been chopped liver either while ranking fourth in scoring defense (11.5).

However, whereas Notre Dame has tallied at least 30 points in each of its first four games for the first time since the national title campaign in 1943, Stanford had problems scoring points in its two Pac-12 league games, losing 13-10 at home to USC on Sept. 13 and winning 20-13 last week at Washington — to a Huskies team that surrendered 52 to Eastern Washington during a 59-52 victory.

Nevertheless, Irish head coach Brian Kelly said “both” teams are trying to find themselves offensively — specifically because of the lines — and are a work in progress there. The Cardinal had to find four new starters this year along the offensive line, while Notre Dame over the last two weeks has changed the position of four offensive line starters in an attempt to get better surge for the running game and better pass protection along the perimeter.

Among 125 Football Bowl Subdivision teams, Stanford is a modest 77th in scoring with a 27.5 points per game average. Turnovers and red-zone inefficiency have been particularly damaging to the Cardinal. Its nine turnovers (seven fumbles, two interceptions) are tied for 85th nationally, but its nothing compared to the No. 118 ranking in the red zone. Of the 19 opportunities it has had at or inside the opponent’s 20, Stanford has scored only eight touchdowns, made four field goals and came away with zero points an alarming seven times.

“Both of us are trying to find that consistency [on offense],” Kelly said. “They have had some turnovers. We have been pretty good in the red zone. They haven’t probably felt like they have been as effective in the red zone as they would like.”

One missing element has been a bellcow back in the mold of Tyler Gaffney, Stepfan Taylor or Toby Gerhart. In 2009, Heisman Trophy runner-up Gerhart carried 29 times for 205 yards versus the Irish, from 2010-12 Taylor averaged 25.3 carries against Notre Dame while eclipsing 100 yards rushing each time, and last year Gaffney recorded 33 carries for 189 yards while leading Stanford to its fourth win in five seasons over the Irish.

This year, Stanford is almost identical to Notre Dame with a three-headed running attack — with none having more than 29 carries total through the first four games. Barry Sanders Jr. (5-10, 198) has rushed for 153 yards, followed by Remound Wright (5-9, 205) with 151 and Kelsey Young (5-10, 191) at 144. All average at least 5.2 yards per carry — but none has tallied a single touchdown.

“These are complete backs,” Kelly noted. “They do all phases of the run — they are not specialists, if you will. Good inside, outside runners. That’s why they are playing three of them, because all three of them have very similar skill sets.”

Kelly said all the pieces are in place to fit a standard physical, productive Stanford offense:

• Quarterback Kevin Hogan is a third-year starter and a running threat (a team high 34 carries, and both rushing TDs).
• The line led by junior tackle Andrus Peat was ranked No. 1 nationally among its position groups during the 2012 recruiting season.
• The tight end, unlike last year, is back in the mix, with Austin Hooper and Eric Cotton combining for 19 catches and 261 yards through four games.
• The receiving tandem of Ty Montgomery and Devon Cajuste might be as dynamic as any Notre Dame confronts this year.

The 6-2 Montgomery was a consensus All-America kick returner last year (including 51- and 34-yard kickoff returns to set up two scores in last year’s win over Notre Dame). Meanwhile, the 6-4 Cajuste caught a 16-yard touchdown against the Irish last season and also had 23- and 36-yard receptions (setting up a second TD). He averaged a single season school record 22.9 yards per catch.

“Peat at the offensive line is one of the best in the country,” Kelly said. “They have got the physical offensive line and an experienced quarterback. They have got a match-up problem guy with Devon and then great skill with Ty. They have got all the pieces there … it’s just a matter of time.

“We just hope it’s not this Saturday.”

Notre Dame-Stanford: Taking The Offensive

Good get PA/ND/FAN, but you should explain the difference between points and yards to that writer! Could make a bit of a difference.

 

[koonja]

Hogan is a great runner IMO. He's not the fastest, but he's very strong. Jaylon will surprise him a couple of times I bet.

 

[PANDFAN]

interesting stat i heard on ISD coming from the syracuse game....out of 9 first downs we got on 3rd down we gained them on the run 7x's .....3 of them were 4 yards or more

 

[PANDFAN]

Good get PA/ND/FAN, but you should explain the difference between points and yards to that writer! Could make a bit of a difference.

u mean we can't score 200

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Wind for sure. It'll kill the best passing game. Rain isn't as easy to predict. It really hinges on the QB, IMO. Some can throw a slick ball no problem and others struggle. If it doesn't interrupt the QB, I think the DBs are at a disadvantage covering these freaks running all over the field. It's just hard to back pedal, turn and run with receivers in the rain. Not implying running routes on a slick surface is easy, it's just easier than trying to cover someone.

It's becoming less and less of an issue b/c of turf and increased zone run blocking but it can be a struggle run blocking and driving defenders in the rain. As we all know, offensive linemen love cheating - holding, in particular. It's really hard to latch on and hold a defender in the rain b/c they're slick. And it's damn near impossible to drive block defensive linemen without footing (probably not an issue here b/c of the turf).

Guess I need to factor our new turf into my weather handicapping.

 

[NDohio]

interesting stat i heard on ISD coming from the syracuse game....out of 9 first downs we got on 3rd down we gained them on the run 7x's .....3 of them were 4 yards or more

This was taken from the Syracuse post game thread. Whiskey posted a follow-up article and it contained these stats.

Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack View Post
OFD's Eric Murtaugh just posted his breakdown of the Syracuse game:

3 & 7- Golson 22 yard rush (fumble)
3 & 5- Folston 14 yard rush
3 & 7- Golson 9 yard sack
3 & 4- Fuller 3 yard pass
3 & 7- Folston 7 yard pass
3 & 4- McDaniel 8 yard rush
3 & 2- Golson 3 yard rush
3 & 6- Fuller 7 yard pass
3 & 2- Bryant 7 yard rush
3 & 5- Bryant 5 yard rush
3 & 1- McDaniel 1 yard rush
3 & 1- Golson 2 yard rush
3 & 1- Bryant 5 yard rush
3 & 5- Golson INT
3 & 23- Prosise 7 yard pass