Oct 4 | Stanford

[koonja]

This was taken from the Syracuse post game thread. Whiskey posted a follow-up article and it contained these stats.

Bryant's a guaranteed 5 yards. #FreeBryant

 

[ulukinatme]

Bryant's a guaranteed 5 yards. #FreeBryant

Or a guaranteed fumble

 

[NDohio]

Bryant's a guaranteed 5 yards. #FreeBryant

I wish he would be more decisive. Make the cut and go! Too much dancing so far.

Can you talk to him about that at your next Bod Squad meeting?

 

[koonja]

I wish he would be more decisive. Make the cut and go! Too much dancing so far.

Can you talk to him about that at your next Bod Squad meeting?

I agree he's not been perfect. But I also think he's been the most impressive (YPC is significantly higher I believe).

We don't have time to talk that non-sense. We just do situps.

 

[ulukinatme]

I agree he's not been perfect. But I also think he's been the most impressive (YPC is significantly higher I believe).

We don't have time to talk that non-sense. We just do situps.

He's the most explosive, but he's also the least complete of the 3. It'll be exciting once he gets all the aspects of his game down.

 

[koonja]

He's the most explosive, but he's also the least complete of the 3. It'll be exciting once he gets all the aspects of his game down.

Like I said, I don't think any are complete backs right now... But 5.1 YPC vs. 3.9.... That's significant. At some point you have to roll the dice on talent.

Cam is Cam, solid, dependable, and reached his peak (still worth carries). Folston is the same, but I think he's a better runner and hasn't peaked, mainly due to not getting in his groove... It's clear IMO that Greg has not peaked. Let's let him peak all over the trees.

 

[IrishLax]

Like I said, I don't think any are complete backs right now... But 5.1 YPC vs. 3.9.... That's significant. At some point you have to roll the dice on talent.

Watch Folston's blitz pickup that led to a big play. Watch Cam routinely hit the hole. And then watch Bryant do none of those things.

I 100% agree with your general premise about "rolling the dice on talent", but saying "none are complete backs" isn't fair to the two backs who are much more developed and do the little things right that Bryant hasn't shown he can do.

 

[koonja]

Watch Folston's blitz pickup that led to a big play. Watch Cam routinely hit the hole. And then watch Bryant do none of those things.

I 100% agree with your general premise about "rolling the dice on talent", but saying "none are complete backs" isn't fair to the two backs who are much more developed and do the little things right that Bryant hasn't shown he can do.

What I'm saying is, if you consider 'athleticism' as part of being complete, the other two aren't because they're not at Bryant's level in that regard, IMO. They can do it all, but not as well.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Watch Folston's blitz pickup that led to a big play. Watch Cam routinely hit the hole. And then watch Bryant do none of those things.

I 100% agree with your general premise about "rolling the dice on talent", but saying "none are complete backs" isn't fair to the two backs who are much more developed and do the little things right that Bryant hasn't shown he can do.

100% agree and I was sorely disappointed in his kick returns Saturday night too. I think Greg has all the latent in the world to be great, just needs more consistency and patience.

 

[ulukinatme]

Watch Folston's blitz pickup that led to a big play. Watch Cam routinely hit the hole. And then watch Bryant do none of those things.

I 100% agree with your general premise about "rolling the dice on talent", but saying "none are complete backs" isn't fair to the two backs who are much more developed and do the little things right that Bryant hasn't shown he can do.

 

[Ndaccountant]

What I'm saying is, if you consider 'athleticism' as part of being complete, the other two aren't because they're not at Bryant's level in that regard, IMO. They can do it all, but not as well.

as well as what? What Greg could eventually do or what he is doing? B/c if it is what he is doing today, you are wrong.

 

[IrishLax]

100% agree and I was sorely disappointed in his kick returns Saturday night too. I think Greg has all the latent in the world to be great, just needs more consistency and patience.

What sucks is that if they just fed him the ball 20 times a game I think he'd probably LEARN to be more patient instead of trying to hit a home run every play because he's only getting ~10 touches and he wants to make the most of them.

 

[koonja]

as well as what? What Greg could eventually do or what he is doing? B/c if it is what he is doing today, you are wrong.

Greg's the best runner. Based on my opinion and what he's producing compared to the other two.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

What sucks is that if they just fed him the ball 20 times a game I think he'd probably LEARN to be more patient instead of trying to hit a home run every play because he's only getting ~10 touches and he wants to make the most of them.

I think this is it right here.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Greg's the best runner. Based on my opinion and what he's producing compared to the other two.

He may have the most potential with the ball in his hands. The issue, IMO, is when he is in the game and the ball isn't in his hands. Can he pick up the blitz to allow for the 20 yard reception? At this point, I think the other 2 back are more complete and can allow the offense to do more things well even though GB may run the ball better.

 

[koonja]

He may have the most potential with the ball in his hands. The issue, IMO, is when he is in the game and the ball isn't in his hands. Can he pick up the blitz to allow for the 20 yard reception? At this point, I think the other 2 back are more complete and can allow the offense to do more things well even though GB may run the ball better.

Right, that's why I said none of them are complete backs. But it's easier for him to reach Cam's level of blitz pickup, than it is for Cam to become a better runner, obviously.

I'm not arguing that Bryant's as good as Cam/Folston at blitz pickup, but it's not like he's been getting Golson killed when he's out there, either.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

You have to figure that Bryant hasn't had as much playing time overall as the others and yet his YPC is higher and very decent. He isn't going to be the best pass blocker and all of the little things needed to be a complete back because he hasn't had the reps (yet). Folston is almost in the same boat but he got a lot more PT last year and didn't red shirt. You can definitely tell the explosiveness is there but he is young and isn't used to having to be patient. The last time he was getting meaningful reps was in high school and he was likely the best player on the field each and every game. He didn't have to be patient. Now he is playing D1 level athletes every game and I'm sure it's hard to be patient and scary, too. I think he will be fine. Cierre Wood was not good his 1st season and his 2nd season was still learning. I think Greg runs a lot like Cierre. IMO Cierre had all the talent to be a 1st or 2nd rounder but screwed up by doing drugs his red shirt junior year and got on Kelly's bad side. He never really got many carries that year after Kelly moved Theo back to RB. Give Greg time and if he doesn't do anything stupid and I think we will be talking about a stud by his senior season if not sooner.

 

[koonja]

You have to figure that Bryant hasn't had as much playing time overall as the others and yet his YPC is higher and very decent. He isn't going to be the best pass blocker and all of the little things needed to be a complete back because he hasn't had the reps (yet). Folston is almost in the same boat but he got a lot more PT last year and didn't red shirt. You can definitely tell the explosiveness is there but he is young and isn't used to having to be patient. The last time he was getting meaningful reps was in high school and he was likely the best player on the field each and every game. He didn't have to be patient. Now he is playing D1 level athletes every game and I'm sure it's hard to be patient and scary, too. I think he will be fine. Cierre Wood was not good his 1st season and his 2nd season was still learning. I think Greg runs a lot like Cierre. IMO Cierre had all the talent to be a 1st or 2nd rounder but screwed up by doing drugs his red shirt junior year and got on Kelly's bad side. He never really got many carries that year after Kelly moved Theo back to RB. Give Greg time and if he doesn't do anything stupid and I think we will be talking about a stud by his senior season if not sooner.

I have no doubt he'll be a stud. But I want him to be a stud vs. Stanford, lol. I don't want to look back and wish we would have let him more loose his RS Freshman year. I think he can help us win now and the offense will be better the more he's in. JMO.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm not arguing that Bryant's as good as Cam/Folston at blitz pickup, but it's not like he's been getting Golson killed when he's out there, either.

It could happen, though, especially against some of the nasty defenses we'll be facing soon. Golson is the lynchpin of our offense. If Bryant misses a blitz pick-up (as he's done so often already) and Golson gets injured, our win total for the season probably drops by at least 2 games. Conversely, I can't see how feeding Bryant carries at the expense of Folston and McDaniel would increase our likely win total by 2, or anything close to it. Not to mention all the ill-will that would engender in the locker room.

And, as always, Cam is being underrated here. We're going to miss him next year.

 

[koonja]

It could happen, though, especially against some of the nasty defenses we'll be facing soon. Golson is the lynchpin of our offense. If Bryant misses a blitz pick-up (as he's done so often already) and Golson gets injured, our win total for the season probably drops by at least 2 games. Conversely, I can't see how feeding Bryant carries at the expense of Folston and McDaniel would increase our likely win total by 2, or anything close to it. Not to mention all the ill-will that would engender in the locker room.

And, as always, Cam is being underrated here. We're going to miss him next year.

I don't mean to be snide, but if Bryant's missing blitz pick-ups, I haven't noticed.

That's a very technical way of looking at it, but I'll play your game since you passed me the ball. If he makes the defense legitimately fear him (which I don't think Cam/Folston will do), it opens up everything on the offense. It very easily could result in an additional win.

Having a legit ground attack to go along with Golson? Sign me up for that.

 

[rocket66]

It's true that the staff is starting to play the more "talented" and "explosive" athletes, as can be seen with Cam getting fewer carries each week. It's happening koon, and sooner than later.

*ducks away from Cam apologists*

 

[IrishFaninTX]

I think Cam is a very good running back when you realize he has a lot of limited abilities that the other 2 do not. He is not fast but he is fast enough to be a threat. He is never going to be considered explosive but he has more long runs this season than the 2 more talented explosive backs. And he protects Golson's butt better than anyone so to say him playing is going to make us lose games is a bit of a stretch. However, if the other 2 can become better blockers and start reading the defense quicker and not having to think so much then I think they provide something to this offense that Cam cannot. Cam is never going to be faster and he won't ever be called explosive. But right now he gets tough yards and has broken a few long ones, too, and more importantly he keeps our QB from getting driven into the ground. Speaking of which, how was Okwara called for slamming SU's QB into the ground but what they did to Golson was ok? They drove him to the ground, too. Was it because Hunt had just released the ball (like a nanosecond before the hit) and Golson still had the ball? They didn't call a late hit or even roughing the passer so I didn't understand that call.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't mean to be snide, but if Bryant's missing blitz pick-ups, I haven't noticed.

Golson's elusiveness has saved him the embarrassment of a nasty sack (or four, by my estimate) but he's atrocious at blitz pick-up. Easily the worst of our three backs.

That's a very technical way of looking at it, but I'll play your game since you passed me the ball. If he makes the defense legitimately fear him (which I don't think Cam/Folston will do), it opens up everything on the offense. It very easily could result in an additional win.

Having a legit ground attack to go along with Golson? Sign me up for that.

The inconsistency of our rushing attack thus far has partly been due to our OL, partly due to scheme, and partly due to hesitance/ poor vision by our RBs. Even if Cam turned into Toby Gerhardt tomorrow, it wouldn't have a huge impact on our offense without improvement in those other two areas.

If Bryant is truly that much better than the other two, then he'll distinguish himself in practice and win a larger share of the reps going forward. The fact that he hasn't done so yet tells me that his advocates here are conveniently overlooking some major deficiencies in his game.

The dude's a RS freshman. Patience.

 

[GowerND11]

I think Cam is a very good running back when you realize he has a lot of limited abilities that the other 2 do not. He is not fast but he is fast enough to be a threat. He is never going to be considered explosive but he has more long runs this season than the 2 more talented explosive backs. And he protects Golson's butt better than anyone so to say him playing is going to make us lose games is a bit of a stretch. However, if the other 2 can become better blockers and start reading the defense quicker and not having to think so much then I think they provide something to this offense that Cam cannot. Cam is never going to be faster and he won't ever be called explosive. But right now he gets tough yards and has broken a few long ones, too, and more importantly he keeps our QB from getting driven into the ground. Speaking of which, how was Okwara called for slamming SU's QB into the ground but what they did to Golson was ok? They drove him to the ground, too. Was it because Hunt had just released the ball (like a nanosecond before the hit) and Golson still had the ball? They didn't call a late hit or even roughing the passer so I didn't understand that call.

It was a BS call. The only reasoning I can see why they called that on Romeo is because his feet left the ground for like a nanosecond. And the reason that happened was because he tackled the QB the proper way.

 

[koonja]

Golson's elusiveness has saved him the embarrassment of a nasty sack (or four, by my estimate) but he's atrocious at blitz pick-up. Easily the worst of our three backs.



The inconsistency of our rushing attack thus far has partly been due to our OL, partly due to scheme, and partly due to hesitance/ poor vision by our RBs. Even if Cam turned into Toby Gerhardt tomorrow, it wouldn't have a huge impact on our offense without improvement in those other two areas.

If Bryant is truly that much better than the other two, then he'll distinguish himself in practice and win a larger share of the reps going forward. The fact that he hasn't done so yet tells me that his advocates here are conveniently overlooking some major deficiencies in his game.

The dude's a RS freshman. Patience.

No sense in debating with you if you're going to play that card since it cannot be trumped. I simply don't like the run game as is, and will feed the guy who's making the most of what little space is provided, and averaging over 5 yards a carry as opposed to the two that are at 3.9. Especailly now that yards are going to be tougher to come by.

 

[ND NYC]

It's true that the staff is starting to play the more "talented" and "explosive" athletes, as can be seen with Cam getting fewer carries each week. It's happening koon, and sooner than later.

*ducks away from Cam apologists*

i actually feel the opposite.
i feel Kelly knows he is playing the softer part of his schedule and therefore giving GB and to an extend TF MORE REPS...to see how they do. But when it is crunch time, i think BK trusts Cam the most.

3rd and 1 under 2 min on our own 29, need first down to close the game out...i think BK runs Cam not a GB or TF. (of course theres always Golson to run it too but thats my take i could be wrong. just an overall hunch that Kelly trusts Cam way more than the others.

 

[NDohio]

I don't mean to be snide, but if Bryant's missing blitz pick-ups, I haven't noticed.

That's a very technical way of looking at it, but I'll play your game since you passed me the ball. If he makes the defense legitimately fear him (which I don't think Cam/Folston will do), it opens up everything on the offense. It very easily could result in an additional win.

Having a legit ground attack to go along with Golson? Sign me up for that.

If you go back and watch the interview he did post Michigan(I think), he talks about a screen pass that he broke for good yardage. He jokes about how he was only in that position because he missed his block. It was a positive play, but it very easily could have been a disaster - EG's maturity and field presence saved the play. You may not have seen him miss any blitz pick-ups, bet he has absolutely missed quite a few.

I love his skill set, but if he wants to gain the playing time you think he deserves, he needs to start running better. Hit the hole, one move and go, stop with the happy feet.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

No sense in debating with you if you're going to play that card since it cannot be trumped. I simply don't like the run game as is, and will feed the guy who's making the most of what little space is provided, and averaging over 5 yards a carry as opposed to the two that are at 3.9. Especailly now that yards are going to be tougher to come by.

Do you really think it's that simple? Someone ought to email the coaching staff to let him know that Bryant is averaging the most YPC, and that they're holding back our ground game by giving carries to anyone else.

Shaw must be an idiot, too. Stanford is also dealing with some similar offensive challenges-- unsettled OL, schematic issues, etc-- and is also doing the "RB-by-committee" thing. Barry Sanders, Jr. is averaging 7.3 YPC, but he's splitting carries equally with Kelsey Young (5.5 YPC) and Remound Wright (5.2 YPC). Let's hope Shaw's incapable of computing a basic average so he keeps "wasting" carries on the other two backs.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

What sucks is that if they just fed him the ball 20 times a game I think he'd probably LEARN to be more patient instead of trying to hit a home run every play because he's only getting ~10 touches and he wants to make the most of them.

Yes. I just don't see that happening this year when you have two others who are capable in regards to the other facets. Next year, they lose Cam and at that time I think GB is forced into becoming that every down back. Which leads me too...

...And, as always, Cam is being underrated here. We're going to miss him next year.

I don't think ND misses Cam anymore than they miss Allen, Gray, Riddick, or Wood. Guys tend to grow a lot in their development when they become upperclassmen. I think Folston becomes a great every down back and GB, as mentioned above, will become forced to develop those other facets so he, too, can become a complete back. The cycle then continues when the new freshmen get on campus, Koon goes nuts over them, guys argue about who's more talented, and they eventually become complete backs and see the field as upperclassmen. Signs of a program set up for sustained success (We need it at all positions).

 

[koonja]

Do you really think it's that simple? Someone ought to email the coaching staff to let him know that Bryant is averaging the most YPC, and that they're holding back our ground game by giving carries to anyone else.

Shaw must be an idiot, too. Stanford is also dealing with some similar offensive challenges-- unsettled OL, schematic issues, etc-- and is also doing the "RB-by-committee" thing. Barry Sanders, Jr. is averaging 7.3 YPC, but he's splitting carries equally with Kelsey Young (5.5 YPC) and Remound Wright (5.2 YPC). Let's hope Shaw's incapable of computing a basic average so he keeps "wasting" carries on the other two backs.

No, but it's a significant part of the argument in this case. It applies less to Stanford, because all of their RBs seem to be producing well at over 5 YPC.

You don't think Bryant shouldn't be getting more carries. I do because I think he's our best runner, per my opinion of watching him vs. the others, and his YPC. Let's not get our undies in a bundle over it. It's OK to disagree. You have the coaches on your side, so of course you win .