Nov 30 | Stanford

[SoDakDomer]

Any know where I can find a replay of this game?

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Since several people have brought it up, I do wish Kelly would have played Zaire this year. Mostly bc we have no experienced QB for next year. What happens if Golson gets denied re-admission? What happens if he gets hurt, or sick? What happens if he is ineligible, etc? We will have Hendrix, if he gets a 5th year, and a redshirt freshman. Would have been nice to have Zaire get some good experience this year.

Out of curiosity, when would you have wanted him to insert Malik? I mean in what game, and at what point in that game? Clearly not to start a game correct? Is there a specific game that ND was far enough ahead that a couple of ill timed mistakes by a freshman QB would have allowed the team to still win comfortably? I'm just curious about where and when would have been the right time to insert him. Just revisiting the scores of each game, maybe 4th quarter vs. Temple and 4th quarter vs. Air Force? By the time we got to AF, there were only 4 games left and 2 of them were against ranked opponents, so it was unlikley Malik would be able to use the experience he gained to the betterment of the team in those games. I don't think that burning a redshirt for 2 quarters of play would be justified by the experience he would have gained. Just my $.02.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

I wish we knew the balance of play calls offensively between BK and Martin.

Doesn't matter who the QB is. ND play calling offensively is still very suspect at times.

You mean between Kelly, Martin and Rees?

 

[rocket66]

Out of curiosity, when would you have wanted him to insert Malik? I mean in what game, and at what point in that game? Clearly not to start a game correct? Is there a specific game that ND was far enough ahead that a couple of ill timed mistakes by a freshman QB would have allowed the team to still win comfortably? I'm just curious about where and when would have been the right time to insert him. Just revisiting the scores of each game, maybe 4th quarter vs. Temple and 4th quarter vs. Air Force? By the time we got to AF, there were only 4 games left and 2 of them were against ranked opponents, so it was unlikley Malik would be able to use the experience he gained to the betterment of the team in those games. I don't think that burning a redshirt for 2 quarters of play would be justified by the experience he would have gained. Just my $.02.

You're right. The only time to bring him in would have been Temple and just a couple others. It is a bit concerning though that there is zero game experience after Golson for next season. Let's just hope Everett rips it open frequently giving Malik plenty of opportunities for mop-up duty in '14.

This does beg the question in if Hendrix is brought back for one last season.

 

[ACamp1900]

You mean between Kelly, Martin and Rees?

Exactly... I would really like to know why ND is so in love with 15 yard plus throws... is it BK's basic system? Is it Chuck or does Tommy check to it constantly... also, why would the coaches let him check to it so often? The whole thing boggles me so... is there any team in the country that throws downfield like ND does?? I would love to see a comparison on this.


Sidenote--- Also, has there been a 'pass first' team to win a title, like ever? I'm sure one or two may be escaping me, but so few teams really have the philosophy of run first and play lights out defense anymore, yet that's usually (like almost always) what wins championships... it's just odd how en vogue a system/style that hasn't really won anything has become across cfb...

 

[NDohio]

Exactly... I would really like to know why ND is so in love with 15 yard plus throws... is it BK's basic system? Is it Chuck or does Tommy check to it constantly... also, why would the coaches let him check to it so often? The whole thing boggles me so... is there any team in the country that throws downfield like ND does?? I would love to see a comparison on this.


Sidenote--- Also, has there been a 'pass first' team to win a title, like ever? I'm sure one or two may be escaping me, but so few teams really have the philosophy of run first and play lights out defense anymore, yet that's usually (like almost always) what wins championships... it's just odd how en vogue a system/style that hasn't really won anything has become across cfb...

My amateur opinion is because there are a lot more quality skill position players out there than quality OL players. Skill guys can get by with their talent and God given abilities. OL guys have to work hard to become good at their position. From a coaching standpoint, it is easier to build a system with these skill guys getting the ball in space as opposed to the amount of time it takes to coach/teach a quality blocking scheme. With only 20 hours a week allowed on the filed that becomes a pretty big challenge.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

You're right. The only time to bring him in would have been Temple and just a couple others. It is a bit concerning though that there is zero game experience after Golson for next season. Let's just hope Everett rips it open frequently giving Malik plenty of opportunities for mop-up duty in '14.

This does beg the question in if Hendrix is brought back for one last season.

Concern? When was the last time a Redshirt Freshman led a successful campaign of ND football? I believe it was Everett Golson. True freshman I'd be worried about but by the time the season opens in '14, he'll have been on campus for 20 months, gone through 2 spring and summer practice sessions, a full regular season and the upcoming practice time leading to the bowl game. I understand game experience is valuable, but it's not like Malik will not have had some time to get used to the playbook and what goes into game prep.

 

[ulukinatme]

Concern? When was the last time a Redshirt Freshman led a successful campaign of ND football? I believe it was Everett Golson. True freshman I'd be worried about but by the time the season opens in '14, he'll have been on campus for 20 months, gone through 2 spring and summer practice sessions, a full regular season and the upcoming practice time leading to the bowl game. I understand game experience is valuable, but it's not like Malik will not have had some time to get used to the playbook and what goes into game prep.

Game experience is helpful, but I agree that it's not everything. Look at 'SC during their reign. A lot of their QBs in that time period only got 1-3 years of playing time before they graduated or got drafted, usually they were Sophomores or upper classmen if I recall. Barkley was kind of the exception to the rule. Regardless, a lot of those QBs won games in their opening seasons despite not having experience. I think it came down to having at least 1 year in the system before they started, sometimes more. It also helped that they were stacked talent wise and had Cheaty Pete.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Sidenote--- Also, has there been a 'pass first' team to win a title, like ever? I'm sure one or two may be escaping me, but so few teams really have the philosophy of run first and play lights out defense anymore, yet that's usually (like almost always) what wins championships... it's just odd how en vogue a system/style that hasn't really won anything has become across cfb...

You really need to recruit well enough, especially at O-line, to have an elite running game. If you can recruit like Bama does every year, you can win by running the ball down team's throats 75% of the time. But if you can't bully teams up front, slinging the ball around becomes the only way to win.

 

[ACamp1900]

You really need to recruit well enough, especially at O-line, to have an elite running game. If you can recruit like Bama does every year, you can win by running the ball down team's throats 75% of the time. But if you can't bully teams up front, slinging the ball around becomes the only way to win.

Michigan St, Wisky and Stanford do not recruit o linemen any better than anyone else... just saying...

ND can certainly recruit championship level O linemen, and I think they have the last 18 months or so at least... and I'd still expect them to 'sling it'...

 

[ThePiombino]

Michigan St and Stanford do not recruit o linemen any better than anyone else... just saying...

ND can certainly recruit championship level O linemen, and I think they have the last 18 months or so at least... and I'd still expect them to 'sling it'...

Didn't Stanford have one of the more epic Oline hauls in recent history only 2 Yeats ago?

 

[ACamp1900]

Didn't Stanford have one of the more epic Oline hauls in recent history only 2 Yeats ago?

They had one good haul yes... still this idea that teams can't run the ball without recruiting HR's does not fly with me... at least beyond the point that ANY team would have to recruit well to win... regardless.

 

[ThePiombino]

They had one good haul yes... still this idea that teams can't run the ball without recruiting HR's does not fly with me... at least beyond the point that ANY team would have to recruit well to win... regardless.

Fair enough. Agreed.

 

[ACamp1900]

Anyway, I guess my point is this: The blueprint on how to win a title is written pretty clearly on the wall here… Strong lines on both sides… build a dominate defense… and run the ball…

OR get that once a generation talent at QB like Newton or Young.

This goes back at least 20-30 years off memory… no?

 

[STLDomer]

The Stanford QB Coach got the OC job at Boise State

 

[Ironman8]

The Stanford QB Coach got the OC job at Boise State

That's big. He was a hell of a recruiter for Stanford.

Got Barry Sanders because he was so close to the family he was reading the little brother bedtime stories.

 

[IrishLax]

Stanford's coaching staff is teetering on the brink. People will be coming after Mason hard, in addition to Shaw. Thank goodness for them they got a bunch of tech gurus and some middle eastern oil princes to endow their HC and coordinator positions such that they pay them competitive salaries... or they'd already be lonnnnnnng gone.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Why Stanford needs to go away

 

[Classic Irish]

Why Stanford needs to go away

I agree, but it looks like their moment in the sun is coming to an end. Not only are they losing a lot to graduation after this season, but their recruiting under Shaw has been very mediocre. He's been winning with Harbaugh's players.

 

[ulukinatme]

I look forward to the day when Stanford returns to a mediocre team. Unfortunately, while Stanford has been elite, USC has declined and I think that's just temporary. I'm going to assume that with Kiffin out, USC could return to a 10+ win program.

 

[Oberon]

Being discussed elsewhere, Stanford's head athletic trainer, per the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/sports/ncaafootball/stanfords-distinct-training-regimen-redefines-strength.html?smid=tw-share

From 2006, the year before Turley arrived on the Farm, as Stanford’s campus is known, through last season, the number of games missed because of injury on the two-deep roster dropped by 87 percent. In 2012, only two Cardinal players required season-ending or postseason surgical repair; this year, only one.

Since 2012, off the top of my head, we've lost: Hounshell (2X), Welch, Collinsworth, Wood, Slaughter, Baratti, Randolph, Springmann, Grace, Daniel Smith, Councell, Nix, N. Martin, Lombard, and Watt. Plus nagging injuries to: Ishaq, Day, Kona, Fox, etc...

Of course, the majority of these occurred in 2013. Beyond getting Golson back, improved training/injury prevention might be the biggest area where we can improve given current roster limitations.

Are these shoulder, knee, and ankle injuries actually preventable?

Or is Stanford's success more likely tied to its location near the Bay Area biotech industry, rather than hours of stretching?

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Being discussed elsewhere, Stanford's head athletic trainer, per the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/s...regimen-redefines-strength.html?smid=tw-share



Since 2012, off the top of my head, we've lost: Hounshell (2X), Welch, Collinsworth, Wood, Slaughter, Baratti, Randolph, Springmann, Grace, Daniel Smith, Councell, Nix, N. Martin, Lombard, and Watt. Plug nagging injuries to: Ishaq, Day, Kona, Fox, etc...

Of course, the majority of these occurred in 2013. Beyond getting Golson back, improved training/injury prevention might be the biggest area where we can improve given current roster limitations.

Are these shoulder, knee, and ankle injuries actually preventable?

Or is Stanford's success more likely tied to its location near the Bay Area biotech industry, rather than hours of stretching?

TEH GLOVE!!!11111

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/e8J6ov48rG0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[IrishLax]

Being discussed elsewhere, Stanford's head athletic trainer, per the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/sports/ncaafootball/stanfords-distinct-training-regimen-redefines-strength.html?smid=tw-share



Since 2012, off the top of my head, we've lost: Hounshell (2X), Welch, Collinsworth, Wood, Slaughter, Baratti, Randolph, Springmann, Grace, Daniel Smith, Councell, Nix, N. Martin, Lombard, and Watt. Plug nagging injuries to: Ishaq, Day, Kona, Fox, etc...

Of course, the majority of these occurred in 2013. Beyond getting Golson back, improved training/injury prevention might be the biggest area where we can improve given current roster limitations.

Are these shoulder, knee, and ankle injuries actually preventable?

Or is Stanford's success more likely tied to its location near the Bay Area biotech industry, rather than hours of stretching?

I've heard multiple people say that Stanford players are juiced and that's a big part of their "player development" as well as injury prevention. Maybe it's all legal cutting edge stuff, or maybe it's Victor Conte Bay Area level "biotech"... I'm not sure.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

So you're saying light a candle for a steroid controversy to break out in Palo Alto? LOL, wouldn't hurt our recruiting!

 

[irishog77]

Being discussed elsewhere, Stanford's head athletic trainer, per the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/sports/ncaafootball/stanfords-distinct-training-regimen-redefines-strength.html?smid=tw-share



Since 2012, off the top of my head, we've lost: Hounshell (2X), Welch, Collinsworth, Wood, Slaughter, Baratti, Randolph, Springmann, Grace, Daniel Smith, Councell, Nix, N. Martin, Lombard, and Watt. Plug nagging injuries to: Ishaq, Day, Kona, Fox, etc...

Of course, the majority of these occurred in 2013. Beyond getting Golson back, improved training/injury prevention might be the biggest area where we can improve given current roster limitations.

Are these shoulder, knee, and ankle injuries actually preventable?

Or is Stanford's success more likely tied to its location near the Bay Area biotech industry, rather than hours of stretching?

I've brought this up before. Not sure what to make of it.

What I find the strangest are the Collinsworth, Hounshell, and Randolph injuries. Randolph had surgery this summer...for an injury the staff supposedly already knew about prior. Why wait as long as they did, then, for him to have the surgery? And won't he be out for spring practice too? Seems like an awful long time to be out for shoulder surgery. Collinsworth and Hounshell missed entire seasons for torn labrums in their shoulder (not sure if this was what Randolph had or not). I did a little research, and it seems like pro players who have had the same injury either 1) played through it or 2) didn't miss nearly as long and/or the recovery time was shorter than Collinsworth and Hounshell. I'm not trying to create some speculation or controversy, but something seems off about this.

And the Stanford injury rate? I'm not sure some people grasp how incredibly fortunate/lucky they have been in that department. Obviously I don't know the exact numbers, but I'd bet that's actually an astronomical figure when it comes to college football and lack of injuries. Sure, some of that can be attributed to training, strength and conditioning, coaching and coaching technique, and even plain old luck. But it does seem awful fishy. Lax, you need to go all investigative reporter on them and find the smoking gun!

 

[ulukinatme]

I wouldn't be surprised if Stanford was juicing, and that's why their number of major injuries is down. A wise man once said "If you hit the guy across from you harder than he hits you, you'll never get hurt."

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Telling you guys.. it's THE GLOVE!

If we can't license them, we need to get Bobby Bushay on staff as a GA to get some icy coldness in our players.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Well, you know...Longo.

 

[IrishLax]

So you're saying light a candle for a steroid controversy to break out in Palo Alto? LOL, wouldn't hurt our recruiting!

I think we've talked about this before... I forget in which thread though... but basically their is "juicing" most everywhere to different degrees. It's impossible to police it out of the system, especially which how ineffective NCAA protocols are and how physical of a sport football is.

It is a widely accepted "fact" that Carroll's USC teams were juiced out of their minds. I think some people even got caught... but there were many others with the obvious Barry Bonds-esque "physique" fluctuations. Is it any surprise that his Seattle teams have been rife with substance abuse issues as well? People are always looking for an edge... and whether it's Spygate or HGH or whatever they're going to find it.

I'm not going to pretend that I know the first thing about specifics at Stanford, but I've heard many different people from many different angles allude/allege that with Harbaugh they started going the "extra mile" with player development. Do a quick Google search on NCAA PED testing and you'll understand just how easy it is to comply with NCAA minimums and use PEDs that will never, ever show up on the tests.

 

[NDdomer2]