ND Coaching Changes 2016

Crazy Balki

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Because every time a coach wins 10+ games we freak out and sign them to a completely ridiculous contract.

It's weird that we sign Kelly to a reasonable extension after the best season ND has had in 25 years, yet we give him a ridiculous extension after a significantly less impressive season.
 

stlnd01

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The regular reminder that we actually have no idea what Kelly's buyout is.
 

jimmymac

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Hotty Laura Thomas...Zach grant... These were just 2 that I saw and heard of and knew were part of recruiting staff

Zach Grants a big loss. Did a lot of great work behind the scenes. May be the youngest Director of Playor Personnel in college football now at WKU.
 

Valpodoc85

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If this was Texas Hold'em I think BK has pushed all in (mind you he only had one or two big blinds left)
 

IrishLax

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Zach Grants a big loss. Did a lot of great work behind the scenes. May be the youngest Director of Playor Personnel in college football now at WKU.

He is the youngest. One member on this site has quite a close connection to him... there's a reason Sanford is bringing him with. Sanford is also tapping into some other peripheral ND guys to help out with his program at WKU. Would not be surprised to see Sanford & Co. Back at ND as early as 2018 if he has immediate success at WKU.
 

Irish#1

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Buy-out provisions often go both ways. If ND fires Kelly now, they owe him $25 million. And presumably, if Kelly left for another school, ND could demand a large chunk of change since he's still under contract. But since ND is looking to get out of the first provision, they could offer to waive their right to second. I assume Kelly and Jack have hashed this out, and since Kelly wants to continue coaching, they've both agreed it's in his best interest to do well in 2017 and jump to a new school without crashing his career trajectory. That way Kelly's still making millions annually, he still looks like an attractive coach (if you squint really hard), and ND avoids a $25 million loss.

That's all assuming someone will want to hire Kelly which is a big assumption IMO. Given the situations that have played out over the last couple of years, I'd say Kelly's options are probably going to be very limited.

I agree with some others. The logic just doesn't seem to flow properly. Would love to be a fly in Jack's office.
 
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woolybug25

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That's all assuming someone will want to hire Kelly which is a big assumption IMO. Given the situations that have played out over the last couple of years, I'd say Kelly's options are probably going to be very limited.

I agree with some others. The logic just doesn't seem to flow properly. Would love to be a fly in Jack's office.

I highly disagree. If he won say... 10 games this season. He would have multiple successful seasons at a school where you can't cut corners. When he was at Cinci, he didn't have those limitations and won big there too. If you are some sleezy west coast school where the athletes don't play school... BK could thrive.

If he wanted to leave after a successful year, and leaving on a good note, schools would be fighting over him.
 

OCIrish

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I highly disagree. If he won say... 10 games this season. He would have multiple successful seasons at a school where you can't cut corners. When he was at Cinci, he didn't have those limitations and won big there too. If you are some sleezy west coast school where the athletes don't play school... BK could thrive.

If he wanted to leave after a successful year, and leaving on a good note, schools would be fighting over him.

Agreed
 

jimmymac

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He is the youngest. One member on this site has quite a close connection to him... there's a reason Sanford is bringing him with. Sanford is also tapping into some other peripheral ND guys to help out with his program at WKU. Would not be surprised to see Sanford & Co. Back at ND as early as 2018 if he has immediate success at WKU.

(I'm also close to him haha... good guy)

But definitely agree re Sanford back at ND. Hope he crushes it at WKU
 

Blaise

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We need to get a vbookie contest about whether or not Kelly is the coach in 2018... Because I think this team wins 9 games next year and I think that's not enough for Kelly to jump ship to somewhere he would want to go like the NFL, and I don't see ND firing him and he will be back
 

BobbyMac

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I highly disagree. If he won say... 10 games this season. He would have multiple successful seasons at a school where you can't cut corners. When he was at Cinci, he didn't have those limitations and won big there too. If you are some sleezy west coast school where the athletes don't play school... BK could thrive.

If he wanted to leave after a successful year, and leaving on a good note, schools would be fighting over him.

This.

Remember one thing folks. 90% of the schools out there expect down years. BK showing that he could build multiple double digit seasons, not in a row but build, win, rebuild, win, rebuild, win would be best case scenario for most schools. He has the benefit of having a historically high floor. We hated last year's 4-8 record but A LOT of schools expect that in every 4 year cycle. Plus, depending on how you look at it, BK was 8 plays away from maybe being 11-1. Some AD's will look at last season as a product of bad luck as much as bad coaching and would die to have that as their worst year.

Something else that hasn't been mentioned about bringing in a new HC is often times a new hire is replaced by one of his coordinators. Hypothetical: If ND hired Dabo next year, Brett Venables is the new HC and he might keep 2-3 assistants. That could possibly leave open spots for current ND coaches if he liked what Elko is doing. That's probably not a great example because I think Dabo would gut the place and call former assistants who are currently at other schools to fill his staff. i was just using Clemson because Venables would be a shoe in and would not follow Dabo to ND... or to Bama for that matter when the day comes.
 

zelezo vlk

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This.

Remember one thing folks. 90% of the schools out there expect down years. BK showing that he could build multiple double digit seasons, not in a row but build, win, rebuild, win, rebuild, win would be best case scenario for most schools. He has the benefit of having a historically high floor. We hated last year's 4-8 record but A LOT of schools expect that in every 4 year cycle. Plus, depending on how you look at it, BK was 8 plays away from maybe being 11-1. Some AD's will look at last season as a product of bad luck as much as bad coaching and would die to have that as their worst year.

Something else that hasn't been mentioned about bringing in a new HC is often times a new hire is replaced by one of his coordinators. Hypothetical: If ND hired Dabo next year, Brett Venables is the new HC and he might keep 2-3 assistants. That could possibly leave open spots for current ND coaches if he liked what Elko is doing. That's probably not a great example because I think Dabo would gut the place and call former assistants who are currently at other schools to fill his staff. i was just using Clemson because Venables would be a shoe in and would not follow Dabo to ND... or to Bama for that matter when the day comes.

Not sure that Dabo would come to be honest, since Bama is his alma mater. Also, I'm not sure I want Dabo without Venables.
 

Irish Insanity

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This.

Remember one thing folks. 90% of the schools out there expect down years. BK showing that he could build multiple double digit seasons, not in a row but build, win, rebuild, win, rebuild, win would be best case scenario for most schools. He has the benefit of having a historically high floor. We hated last year's 4-8 record but A LOT of schools expect that in every 4 year cycle. Plus, depending on how you look at it, BK was 8 plays away from maybe being 11-1. Some AD's will look at last season as a product of bad luck as much as bad coaching and would die to have that as their worst year.

Something else that hasn't been mentioned about bringing in a new HC is often times a new hire is replaced by one of his coordinators. Hypothetical: If ND hired Dabo next year, Brett Venables is the new HC and he might keep 2-3 assistants. That could possibly leave open spots for current ND coaches if he liked what Elko is doing. That's probably not a great example because I think Dabo would gut the place and call former assistants who are currently at other schools to fill his staff. i was just using Clemson because Venables would be a shoe in and would not follow Dabo to ND... or to Bama for that matter when the day comes.


Multiple double digit seasons..........he has 2 in 8 years here.

As far as Dabo, I'd love if he would come to ND, problem is I don't think he leaves Clemson until it's Bama calling. He has no reason to.
 

NDdomer2

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if BK won 10 games last year we wouldnt even be discussing this pretty moot what if.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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None of this provides a reasonable explanation for why ND essentially hired BK an entire new staff. If they wanted to send Kelly to pasture then they would support him publicly to keep the recruiting class together, keep the same staff, and then fire everyone when next year inevitably becomes a dumpster fire.

Under that scenario, next year would result in less buyout money for Kelly, less buyout money for his assistants, and a totally clean slate for a new HC to build upon.

Well it does. Whiskey said it perfectly. I talked previously about a married couple coming together talking about how they were going to clean things up, sitting at the table after they both cheated on each other. So they come up with a plan.

One way of looking at it is in terms of candidate and position availability, and bang for the buck. But there is another.

And I've talked to someone else, (or more than one) since I last posted.

Kelly started going south after the '12 season. Think about it. That was the perfect time for him to move. He was damned near golden.

But he botched that. He and his agent. So they talk. And like idjiots they start looking at things. This gets back, and he gets cemented into a longer deal.

But does Kelly really like it? How long has he stayed at a D1 school before Notre Dame. Plus, Notre Dame is Notre Dame, there may not be a harder place for most coaches to succeed than at ND.

Kelly way underestimated how hard he would have to work to get to a championship level at ND.

So Swarbrick, who has just gotten the powers that be to sink a half-billion dollars into the Universities football future, has a coach that isn't gonna get it. What's an AD to do?

More importantly, timing. This year the timing is worse for Swarbrick and ND than it is for Kelly.

For Kelly :
If he is out, he will never get a coaching job again. But he is in his fifties, and should have enough money to live lavishly, pay for education and vacations, and clearly will be able to supplement his income with speaking and TV.

For ND, if they fire him it costs more than with Weis! For what? Show me the (experienced) coaches that are available with out ND having to buy them out as well to get a really, really pricey replacement for Kelly, still with no guarantees.

Yup, it would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-40 million just to make Kelly go away, and get someone competent, with no guarantee of success.

So, what to do? If Kelly stays, and does reasonably well, there maybe someone that wants to hire him after 2017, whereas that would be more than does now want him. And remember, that is only if he succeeds at in a 2017 transition season. If he yerps, between now and then, he still is done. And of course the reason he would participate in such an affair is the collective power and control of the steering committee is great enough to guarantee he wouldn't even get an interview, if he didn't hold up his end of the bargain.

For the University Kelly guys ain't it. There are a hundred stories for every single one you have heard. But past names like Martin, Diaco, Denbrock, Quinn, etc., aren't coaching at ND anymore. The only exception is Elston, who apparently did a good enough job as recruiting coordinator, and getting the Irish out of a bind defensively after firing BVG to be kept. Question is, since he became everyone's friend, can he do the tough job required of someone taking over the defensive front? That remains to be seen!

Now you talk about who comes in. Speculation abounds, experienced heavy hitter, versus a relatively new, inexperienced coach. Either way, getting the right coordinators in is imperative. It is imperative to next season, which has to be a success, for many reasons including recruiting continuity. But it increasingly doesn't matter which way the Irish go. An inexperienced, or young coach would profit from experienced coordinators in position at ND. But, more and more, experienced coaches are losing the luxury of moving a staff with them.

Since the pay scale for Coordinators has risen, they are cutting their own deals. Did you see that Dave Warnier who just moved up the chain with Urban, is now leaving for an OC position at Minnesota with PJ Fleck? So if ND hired Urban, just for instance, who would he bring as his coordinators? Fickle is the HC at Cincinnati. So he got nobody to bring at this time. Instead, a smart coach would bring his guy as a consultant for year one, if that guy wanted to come, and then move him up if the guy in place didn't work out.

So to review, ND has a carefully crafted plan, put together by a bunch of really sharp guys, which emphasizes rebuilding the coaching infrastructure, which Kelly has allowed to erode, with the idea that Kelly can be transitioned out for a more capable replacement in a year.

Now here is the interesting question : How much is the offense going to change this next year? I think you will see some subtle but significant changes deep within. Not so much, or so quickly that it burdens the players, but enough so that it puts Long in charge, and makes scouting, and preparation a bit of a nightmare.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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The whole avoiding BKs buyout doesn't make any sense if ur going to hire another coach next year and have to pay the future obligations to ur new stuff hires from this year. keep Kelly one more year limits his buyout, but all we did was add future obligations to elko, lea, long, and Alexander.

Seems like net nothing.

Again, the cost to avoid is a buyout for the coach you are trying to hire (too, or also.) Let alone have the overall group from which to select be more substantial.
 

OCIrish

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Damn it Bogs!!!!!! I love your posts, especially this one, but I'm at work, and don't have the time to be reading novels on the internet!!!!!!
 

dublinirish

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anyone think JS brought Elko and Long in and said to them next year one of you guys will be HC, so prove to me this year who that will be?
 

OCIrish

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I don't think that be the case, but more they were brought in to help a new HC next season
 

BobbyMac

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Not sure that Dabo would come to be honest, since Bama is his alma mater. Also, I'm not sure I want Dabo without Venables.

I clearly said HYPOTHETICAL.

Multiple double digit seasons..........he has 2 in 8 years here.

As far as Dabo, I'd love if he would come to ND, problem is I don't think he leaves Clemson until it's Bama calling. He has no reason to.

1. My post was in response to the others talking about the theory and importance of a 10 win bounce back season. If ND went 10-2, 11-1 next season, Kelly might leave on his own accord. If that happened, He would have had 3 double digit winning seasons, none of which were back to back.

2. I clearly said HYPOTHETICAL.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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We need to get a vbookie contest about whether or not Kelly is the coach in 2018... Because I think this team wins 9 games next year and I think that's not enough for Kelly to jump ship to somewhere he would want to go like the NFL, and I don't see ND firing him and he will be back

The only way Kelly will be back after this year is if he significantly changes as a human being and coach, which looks like say, getting involved in recruiting, and letting his assistants coach, without trying to micro-manage them.

Probably not going to happen.

The other thing could be BK doing an okay job, no good replacement jobs on the horizion, and letting someone like Mike Sanford get another year of seasoning before moving to the big time, that is if guys like O'Brien and Harbaugh aren't available next year after all.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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if BK won 10 games last year we wouldn't even be discussing this pretty moot what if.

Yes we would.

What's uncorked is uncorked. Remember, Kelly isn't going to coach that many more years. AND I guarantee you, he isn't ending his career at Notre Dame!
 

tussin

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So to review, ND has a carefully crafted plan, put together by a bunch of really sharp guys, which emphasizes rebuilding the coaching infrastructure, which Kelly has allowed to erode, with the idea that Kelly can be transitioned out for a more capable replacement in a year.

I read your whole post. Sorry, but I think you are giving this "carefully crafted plan" wayyyyyyy too much credit. Call me cynical, but my expectation is that this whole thing will end poorly for ND football.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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anyone think JS brought Elko and Long in and said to them next year one of you guys will be HC, so prove to me this year who that will be?

No, and the reason why is they are both such young, up and coming coaches. Neither one of them have coached with their soon to be current level of responsibility at such a high level D1 school.

They will take a year or two to grow into their current role, especially if they do well.


NOTE : Looking at Sanford's raids on ND staff, I am about to make him odds on favorite to return as next ND Head Coach.
 
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