ND Coaching Changes 2016

[NDinBoston]

That still leaves WRs assuming CBK handles QBs. I assume this all clears up pretty soon but it has been interesting to follow.

 

[arrowryan]

Seeing that guys like Panda, Wooly, and Lucky are excited about this hire makes me even more excited about the hire as well.

But there is a huge question that will be left unanswered for a few months at the least. And that question is who will be calling the plays? If Brian Kelly is just going to say "fuck your play call" and override Coach Long's play call, then whats the point go hiring him? Hopefully things change.

But I really like the hires of Elko and Long

 

[Downinthebend]

Article and what I have watched over the years shows a pro-style so, don't know what else it could be.

I've watched one full game and soon to be more, but unless you have a funny definition of pro style this isn't it. i'd also take alot of what that article said with a grain of salt unless you consider rpo a playaction.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

Seeing that guys like Panda, Wooly, and Lucky are excited about this hire makes me even more excited about the hire as well.

But there is a huge question that will be left unanswered for a few months at the least. And that question is who will be calling the plays? If Brian Kelly is just going to say "fuck your play call" and override Coach Long's play call, then whats the point go hiring him? Hopefully things change.

But I really like the hires of Elko and Long

Bang-on brutha! If Kelly is callin the plays, which I'd guess he will be, I hope he'll be running a game plan that Long has had a good say in and/or helps call plays with Kelly in-game.

 

[NDinBoston]

247Sports 2016 College Football Team Talent Composite:
2016 College Football Team Talent Composite

I've posted this before but thought it would be an interesting revisit. This is the recruiting rankings for each team's entire roster in 2016.

#1. Alabama - 5* (16), 4* (44), 4/5* (60), AVG 92.69
#4. OSU - 5* (2), 4* (56), 4/5* (58), AVG 91.43
#9. ND - 5* (0), 4* (53), 4/5* (53), AVG 90.03
#10 Clemson - 5* (4), 4* (37), 4/5* (41), AVG 89.00
#24 Washington - 5* (0), 4* (21), 4/5* (21), AVG 85.62
#69. Wake Forest - 5* (0), 4* (0), 4/5* (0), AVG 81.90

ND had a better roster than two of the CFP teams and by a decent margin.

This is not intended to generate negative posts. Quite the opposite. I'm hoping these coaching changes can take advantage of the athletes already on the roster along with a Top 10-15 2017 Class.

 

[Luckylucci]

247Sports 2016 College Football Team Talent Composite:
2016 College Football Team Talent Composite

I've posted this before but thought it would be an interesting revisit. This is the recruiting rankings for each team's entire roster in 2016.

#1. Alabama - 5* (16), 4* (44), 4/5* (60), AVG 92.69
#4. OSU - 5* (2), 4* (56), 4/5* (58), AVG 91.43
#9. ND - 5* (0), 4* (53), 4/5* (53), AVG 90.03
#10 Clemson - 5* (4), 4* (37), 4/5* (41), AVG 89.00
#24 Washington - 5* (0), 4* (21), 4/5* (21), AVG 85.62
#69. Wake Forest - 5* (0), 4* (0), 4/5* (0), AVG 81.90

ND had a better roster than two of the CFP teams and by a decent margin.

This is not intended to generate negative posts. Quite the opposite. I'm hoping these coaching changes can take advantage of the athletes already on the roster along with a Top 10-15 2017 Class.

There is certainly talent on this roster. Especially on offense.

 

[Luckylucci]

This Junior class could end up being really special. Wimbush, Alize, ESB, Sanders, Williams, and Adams. Good coaching gets those guys going off

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

There is certainly talent on this roster. Especially on offense.

Absolutely. Our OL especially. Nelson, Bars, McG, Mustipher, Kraemer, Eichenberg, Hoge are all top 247 not to mention the freshman we have coming in. Our TE's are ridiculous. Wimbush was a hig four star. In theory, we should never be getting pushed around at the line of scrimmage. I know that I'm always over optimistic but I really think our offense is going to be spectacular next year.

 

[BobbyMac]

247Sports 2016 College Football Team Talent Composite:
2016 College Football Team Talent Composite

I've posted this before but thought it would be an interesting revisit. This is the recruiting rankings for each team's entire roster in 2016.

#1. Alabama - 5* (16), 4* (44), 4/5* (60), AVG 92.69
#4. OSU - 5* (2), 4* (56), 4/5* (58), AVG 91.43
#9. ND - 5* (0), 4* (53), 4/5* (53), AVG 90.03
#10 Clemson - 5* (4), 4* (37), 4/5* (41), AVG 89.00
#24 Washington - 5* (0), 4* (21), 4/5* (21), AVG 85.62
#69. Wake Forest - 5* (0), 4* (0), 4/5* (0), AVG 81.90

ND had a better roster than two of the CFP teams and by a decent margin.

This is not intended to generate negative posts. Quite the opposite. I'm hoping these coaching changes can take advantage of the athletes already on the roster along with a Top 10-15 2017 Class.

The difference is the impact players. Clemson has (4) 5 stars and regardless of what the talking heads say, Washington had 3. Jake Browning was a 5+ star. He only owns all the passing records in HS history. Budda Baker had been if he was in a football area and John Ross snuck under the radar at a small Long Beach, CA school not named Poly.

Those guys make the difference.

 

[aubeirish]

Must say I don't entirely understand this theory. If Kelly didn't hire his new coordinators, who did? Swarbrick? And if the plan - such as it is - is a new coach by this time next year, won't a new coach want to hire his own coordinators? At least one of them?
I understand if the idea is that Kelly was told the staff needed some big changes. And I get how three-year contracts give the coordinators stability that may well outlast Kelly's. And I think it makes sense for BK to bring in high-quality assistants and shift to more of a CEO type role.
But he's still the head coach, and this plan doesn't work if he's not fully on board. He's going to work with these people every day. Maybe I'm mis-understanding, but the framing that control of the football program has been taken from him seems like it may exaggerate what's going on here.

This. I mean, why keep Kelly otherwise. It makes no sense.

 

[NDinBoston]

The difference is the impact players. Clemson has (4) 5 stars and regardless of what the talking heads say, Washington had 3. Jake Browning was a 5+ star. He only owns all the passing records in HS history. Budda Baker had been if he was in a football area and John Ross snuck under the radar at a small Long Beach, CA school not named Poly.

Those guys make the difference.

Wow, you know way more than me about football (soccer player - just love ND football). Anyway, you think a few difference-maker 5*s make up for that gap in 4*s between ND and Clemson/Washington? That's really interesting.

Do you think ND can/should do better in getting those 5*s or is that not realistic at ND? it certainly appears ND is upgrading overall in recruiting with the recent coaching changes so interested in your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Article and what I have watched over the years shows a pro-style so, don't know what else it could be.

Long replaced the previous staff. He was only the OC at Memphis for this past season.

Fuentes ran more of a pro-style, but with some spread.

Just based off watching Memphis a few times this year, it's similar to what Kelly runs in terms of pro-style route combinations. What I am not sure of is the sight adjustments and in-play reads, which is where Kelly's offense makes things complex.

 

[NDinBoston]

This Junior class could end up being really special. Wimbush, Alize, ESB, Sanders, Williams, and Adams. Good coaching gets those guys going off

Thanks, I agree. Seems the team really likes BW. To your point, I'm not sure this team recently has had great upperclass leadership like they should have next year.

Coaching changes (S&C soon). Early naming of captains. Good recruiting class. I think there is a lot to be optimistic about.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

ND Coaching Changes 2016

Meh. Not who I thought they were going to hire, thought he was pretty far down the list. Had heard Bloomgren from Stanford. Not impressed. Also, sorry for wasting everyone's time

Honestly, this seems like a crappy hire that makes no sense unless the other candidates didn't want the job cuz of how Kelly wanted to run things or something. And at that point, why not just tab Quinn?

Lax you are one of my favorite posters. But, these posts are garbage, pure garbage. The majority of us think Long is a good hire. You state this is a crappy hirer, but have no reasons to support your opinion.

It seems like you are butt heart that what you heard was incorrect that the coach from Stanford was getting the OC job.


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[ND Fan Vancouver]

Thanks, I agree. Seems the team really likes BW. To your point, I'm not sure this team recently has had great upperclass leadership like they should have next year.

Coaching changes (S&C soon). Early naming of captains. Good recruiting class. I think there is a lot to be optimistic about.

I also really like our '17 sophomore DB class. Love, Vaughn especially.

 

[ulukinatme]

All this talk about setting up coordinators for a future head coach that's already been picked. Wimbush know something we don't?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/CoachSanfordWKU">@CoachSanfordWKU</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/AMSanford23">@AMSanford23</a> History says you'll be back in South Bend in a couple of years!!! Good luck, sir!</p>— Brandon Wimbush (@WimbushB7) <a href="https://twitter.com/WimbushB7/status/814947704287690752">December 30, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ThePiombino]

All this talk about setting up coordinators for a future head coach that's already been picked. Wimbush know something we don't?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/CoachSanfordWKU">@CoachSanfordWKU</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/AMSanford23">@AMSanford23</a> History says you'll be back in South Bend in a couple of years!!! Good luck, sir!</p>— Brandon Wimbush (@WimbushB7) <a href="https://twitter.com/WimbushB7/status/814947704287690752">December 30, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Can anyone elaborate on the "history says" thing? Who/what am I missing?

 

[clashmore_mike]

Can anyone elaborate on the "history says" thing? Who/what am I missing?

Wimbush is replying to the pic Sanford posted which shows all of the stops he's made moving up the coaching ladder. Sanford has returned to coach at 3 places he had already been at, Boise State, Stanford, and now WKU. "History says" he'll be back in South Bend.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey <a href="https://twitter.com/AMSanford23">@AMSanford23</a>, it’s time to update this! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoTops?src=hash">#GoTops</a> 🔴 <a href="https://t.co/QLoHs904vb">pic.twitter.com/QLoHs904vb</a></p>— Coach Mike Sanford (@CoachSanfordWKU) <a href="https://twitter.com/CoachSanfordWKU/status/814945025150910465">December 30, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Calabrese's People]

What would it take to get Junior Adams or Calvin Lawry?

Mike Sanford named Adams as his OC at WKU. Phenomenal hire. dammit.

 

[ThePiombino]

Wimbush is replying to the pic Sanford posted which shows all of the stops he's made moving up the coaching ladder. Sanford has returned to coach at 3 places he had already been at, Boise State, Stanford, and now WKU. "History says" he'll be back in South Bend.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey <a href="https://twitter.com/AMSanford23">@AMSanford23</a>, it’s time to update this! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoTops?src=hash">#GoTops</a> 🔴 <a href="https://t.co/QLoHs904vb">pic.twitter.com/QLoHs904vb</a></p>— Coach Mike Sanford (@CoachSanfordWKU) <a href="https://twitter.com/CoachSanfordWKU/status/814945025150910465">December 30, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ah, I see - thanks for the explanation! Reps

 

[Dizzyphil]

Long for Sanford
Elko for VanGorder/Hudson
Denbrock gone
Longo gone

And, with a new starting QB, 2017 going to be a different Irish. I'm hoping BK lets these guys do their thing.

 

[Cackalacky]

Lax you are one of my favorite posters. But, these posts are garbage, pure garbage. The majority of us think Long is a good hire. You state this is a crappy hirer, but have no reasons to support your opinion.

It seems like you are butt heart that what you heard was incorrect that the coach from Stanford was getting the OC job.


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Lax can defend himself here but I dont like it either. It seems like a filler hire. He could have easily promoted Quinn but he or ND went outside to pull in a guy who doesnt have much top flight experience. Maybe BK wants a guy to do what he wants him to? Maybe ND said screw you BK this is who you will be working with? Lots of huge question marks are around this hiring.

 

[Free Manera]

Lax can defend himself here but I dont like it either. It seems like a filler hire. He could have easily promoted Quinn but he or ND went outside to pull in a guy who doesnt have much top flight experience. Maybe BK wants a guy to do what he wants him to? Maybe ND said screw you BK this is who you will be working with? Lots of huge question marks are around this hiring.

It could be that Long was the best available. ND is tumultuous right now and Kelly, although fiercely loyal (to a fault) with his guys, is difficult to work with. He is also almost certainly out after 2017.

A good coordinator will always have a job. So it could be hard to woo someone from a P5, like Bloomgren from Stanford (Lax's expected hire), when he is pretty comfortable. It took a 3 year deal just to get Long, so to swipe a more prominent guy would have broken the bank and maybe taken a 4 year deal. With a new head coach likely arriving for 2018, that would be a gamble.

 

[IrishLax]

Lax you are one of my favorite posters. But, these posts are garbage, pure garbage. The majority of us think Long is a good hire. You state this is a crappy hirer, but have no reasons to support your opinion.

It seems like you are butt heart that what you heard was incorrect that the coach from Stanford was getting the OC job.


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I mean, I absolutely did give my opinion why I think it's a questionable hire? I made multiple posts after those explaining why I think it's questionable to give a guy with one decent year as an OC a 3-year deal and cross your fingers versus alternatives. So I don't really know what the heck you're talking.

People are allowed to have a difference of opinion. I get the the logic behind Long, and it's totally plausible that it ends up being a great hire. A lot of people weren't sold on Hiestand when he was hired. Put me in the group of people that are skeptical right now. Shrug.

 

[Free Manera]

I mean, I absolutely did give my opinion why I think it's a questionable hire? I made multiple posts after those explaining why I think it's questionable to give a guy with one decent year as an OC a 3-year deal and cross your fingers versus alternatives. So I don't really know what the heck you're talking.

People are allowed to have a difference of opinion. I get the the logic behind Long, and it's totally plausible that it ends up being a great hire. A lot of people weren't sold on Hiestand when he was hired. Put me in the group of people that are skeptical right now. Shrug.

You said he was pretty far down the list from what you heard. Is it plausible that everyone else said no? Or were the others not interviewed/offered?

 

[rtrn2glory]

Seems like from what is being said that a lot of people told BK no

 

[IrishLax]

It could be that Long was the best available. ND is tumultuous right now and Kelly, although fiercely loyal (to a fault) with his guys, is difficult to work with. He is also almost certainly out after 2017.

A good coordinator will always have a job. So it could be hard to woo someone from a P5, like Bloomgren from Stanford (Lax's expected hire), when he is pretty comfortable. It took a 3 year deal just to get Long, so to swipe a more prominent guy would have broken the bank and maybe taken a 4 year deal. With a new head coach likely arriving for 2018, that would be a gamble.

I tried to rep you before and comment on some of your thoughts, but I think you've basically hit the nail on the head in this thread with a lot of your opinions/insight. Really good posts. I don't think we know where Long was on the list of people they looked at... top pick after interviews? The bottom and everyone else turned down ND?

To expand on my thoughts to others who aren't happy that I'm not over-the-moon here... Chip Long could be very good but there are a lot of people in this thread calling him a "home run" I don't see that. I think it's more reasonable to say that a guy whose entire resume as an OC entails some above average production for one year at an AAC school isn't in the class of our other coordinator hire who has years of proving he can do "more with less" and improve programs. People calling him a "Sanford clone"... well, sure, in the sense that he only has one year of OC experience and has the recruiting coordinator background. But Sanford had the pedigree from being on great staffs at programs winning tons of games, headed an arguably better offense at Boise State, was a QB coach... which was very important at the time... and was highly sought after by multiple top coaches. Long was brought by Norvell to Memphis... and Norvell got the Memphis job because of his great offenses at ASU... so how do we even know what Long should get credit for?

So in short, I like that he's allegedly a tenacious recruiter and coaches TEs. Everything else should be "wait and see," IMO, because he sure hasn't proved anything yet in one year of coordinating an offense that was borderline top 25 nationally by advanced stats and borderline top 10 for his lower level Group of Five.

 

[Free Manera]

I tried to rep you before and comment on some of your thoughts, but I think you've basically hit the nail on the head in this thread with a lot of your opinions/insight. Really good posts. I don't think we know where Long was on the list of people they looked at... top pick after interviews? The bottom and everyone else turned down ND?

To expand on my thoughts to others who aren't happy that I'm not over-the-moon here... Chip Long could be very good but there are a lot of people in this thread calling him a "home run" I don't see that. I think it's more reasonable to say that a guy whose entire resume as an OC entails some above average production for one year at an AAC school isn't in the class of our other coordinator hire who has years of proving he can do "more with less" and improve programs. People calling him a "Sanford clone"... well, sure, in the sense that he only has one year of OC experience and has the recruiting coordinator background. But Sanford had the pedigree from being on great staffs at programs winning tons of games, headed an arguably better offense at Boise State, was a QB coach... which was very important at the time... and was highly sought after by multiple top coaches. Long was brought by Norvell to Memphis... and Norvell got the Memphis job because of his great offenses at ASU... so how do we even know what Long should get credit for?

So in short, I like that he's allegedly a tenacious recruiter and coaches TEs. Everything else should be "wait and see," IMO, because he sure hasn't proved anything yet in one year of coordinating an offense that was borderline top 25 nationally by advanced stats and borderline top 10 for his lower level Group of Five.

When you think about the state of the program going into 2017, hiring a tenacious recruiter (or 2 if you include Polian), and giving him a guaranteed contract, is actually one of the best things to do. You can then try to reel in a great 2017 class, despite what may be happening with the head coach or the on field results, and not suffer a completely lost year.

The biggest fear with a lame duck coach is that you suffer recruiting losses resulting in roster holes that take years to correct. Maybe Long, Polian, and Elko pull a top 10 class and set the table for the new guy.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I don't think ND has done anything with this hire to shore up their offensive identity. If some of the greatest minds on IE can't describe it, that could mean more of the same in the play calling next season. I fear that BK at some point says screw it and just overrides the play calls in his attempt to audition for his next HC job.

 

[arrowryan]

One thing we can't take away from Kelly is that, more often than not, his assistant hires usually turn out to be very good hires. Does that mean Elko and Long are guaranteed to be the next great coordinators at ND? Of course not, but the odds are definitely in their favor.

After the USC game, everyone knew that changes needed to be made. We have certainly seen a lot of change take place. As some have mentioned, and I kind of agree, maybe too much change has occurred. But If Kelly wants a job beyond 2017, he needed to make changes. We can check off that box.