NCAA Ruling on the ND Academic Scandal

[Rudy89]

Sucks but it means nothing going forward. We watched us win all those games and no governing body can take that away from us fans and the players who still played and won. Who cares about records we know we won. Maybe had we don’t something less heinous like cover up child molestation we would’ve won the appeal. Like Penn State did l.

 

[NDRock]

It is ironic that ND tries so hard not to be looked at as a football factory but gets punished worse than those schools. Judging by the NCAA, we’re some of the biggest cheaters out there. Unreal.

 

[ozzman]

Dennis Dodd thinks it can start the movement to leave the NCAA

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...e-could-be-the-tipping-point-of-an-avalanche/

 

[Rudy89]

It is ironic that ND tries so hard not to be looked at as a football factory but gets punished worse than those schools. Judging by the NCAA, we’re some of the biggest cheaters out there. Unreal.

Might as well embrace it. Not saying we should cheat or do something totally bogus but fuck trying to be on a moral high ground. It gets us vacated wins and no major bowl wins.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Dennis Dodd thinks it can start the movement to leave the NCAA

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...e-could-be-the-tipping-point-of-an-avalanche/

 

[IrishLax]

Once again, we did this to ourselves with mismanagement of the situation from the onset --

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">While I don’t agree with the NCAA’s denial of Notre Dame’s appeal, University president Rev. John Jenkins said the following in 2014 when the investigation began. I’d argue he should have started with today’s strident position, not just finished there. <a href="https://t.co/bfRyUsk4km">pic.twitter.com/bfRyUsk4km</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/963501352684056576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
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We're all shocked that the NCAA is a corrupt, incompetent shithole? With no consistency? I'm not.

 

[Legacy]

N.C.A.A.: North Carolina Will Not Be Punished for Academic Scandal

The N.C.A.A.’s committee on infractions concluded it lacked the power to punish the university under the rules of the N.C.A.A., an association that expects members to govern themselves and establishes a wide berth when it comes to determining what qualifies as academic progress.

“N.C.A.A. policy is clear,” said Greg Sankey, the commissioner of the Southeastern Conference, who led the panel. “The N.C.A.A. defers to its member schools to determine whether academic fraud occurred and, ultimately, the panel is bound to making decisions within the rules set by the membership.”

Florida State defends academic integrity following Times report of athlete favoritism

Florida State University defended the way it handled a former college football players’ classwork in response to a New York Times article that highlighted allegations of athlete favoritism and academic fraud at the school.

The Times chronicled a complaint by a former FSU teaching assistant who said she felt pressured to give special breaks to athletes in online hospitality courses on coffee, tea and wine, with some athletes on the Seminoles’ 2013 national championship team handing in plagiarized work and disregarding assignments before later asking for grades that would keep them academically eligible under NCAA rules.

“Florida State University retained a leading law firm with a highly experienced collegiate sports practice to conduct an independent investigation of the course in question,” FSU said in a statement released Friday. “After a thorough examination of the facts, no NCAA violations were found. The course was subsequently modified for other reasons.”

The Times report includes extensive visual examples of plagiarized work.

The article states former players Timmy Jernigan, Tre’ Jackson, Nick Waisome, Kelvin Benjamin and Wilder turned in plagiarized work without citations that appears to have been accepted.

The Times reported all former athletes named in the article declined to comment on the allegations.

The athletes went on to win a national title, with Wilder winning ACC Championship Game MVP honors, while Suggs’ contract was not renewed.

 

[koonja]

Can you imagine if we had won the title in 2012?

Does ND still self-report?

Does ND's admin get accused of sabotaging the football program?

Does NCAA have the stones to still make this horrible ruling?

Holy cow.

 

[IrishLion]

Can you imagine if we had won the title in 2012?

In light of this ruling, it may be a good thing that we didn't lol.

Does ND still self-report?

I think they would, absolutely, based on the lengths they went to with their first investigation with literally no reason to do so.

Does ND's admin get accused of sabotaging the football program?

Absolutely they would, and this issue today would have turned VERY ugly, very quickly, with several different entities involved with ND going after one another. It would have been ugly internally and externally.

Does NCAA have the stones to still make this horrible ruling?

They would have, I think. They've stripped titles and banners before.


The most interesting part to me, had ND won the title in '12, would be if they remove BK's statue from outside of ND Stadium... because he would undoubtedly have had a statue put in by now, right?

 

[Valpodoc85]

The NCAA has one job.....to maintain the brand. Do something to hurt the brand get punished, burnish the brand rewarded.

 

[ulukinatme]

LAX is right and of course Jenkins won't pursue this in court. The mere thought of a lawsuit would probably get the NCAA to reverse their ruling on vacating the wins.

I think it's time that Jenkins step down as President. This isn't the first time he's been in error or said something that came back later to bite us in the butt. From the start he said he would accept any loss of wins...bad move. You play meek to the NCAA, they take that as a sign and they take the hammer to you. It's ridiculous what institutions like North Carolina and Miami have gotten away with in recent years. Hell, the fact the NCAA basically reneged on their punishment of Penn State...that was really low. If ever there was a time to remove wins, that should have been a clear case that was never backed out of. In essence the NCAA is saying that it's cool if you abuse some kids and lie about it, but a few players get punished for getting help on some papers...and you self report it? Nope, clean the record books, that's some dirty stuff. Makes you wonder what kind of backroom deals occurred for those programs to get away Scott-free. We already know the University when it comes to money, no way would they participate in anything like that.

Between his goofs in the past, and Jenkins advocating that ND move to a more "academic" league away from the football factories...I just don't think he understands Notre Dame. He certainly gets the secular side and the academic side, but he can't and won't protect the athletes nor will he fight for them. Lets be honest, academics aside, Notre Dame built their popularity and name based on the football team first. Regardless of what may have happened to the landscape of college football in the last 25 years, football has been their identity and without it they would be the Boston College of the Midwest. If Jenkins thinks Notre Dame would still be Notre Dame without that legacy, he's sorely mistaken. Refusing to fight the NCAA on this and advocating for a demotion to an "academic" league is not going to bring more prosperity to the University.

Dennis Dodd thinks it can start the movement to leave the NCAA

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...e-could-be-the-tipping-point-of-an-avalanche/

I found this surprising. For years Dodd would do nothing but stoke the fires and tear down Notre Dame. This piece was oddly supportive.

 

[greyhammer90]

Between his goofs in the past, and Jenkins advocating that ND move to a more "academic" league away from the football factories...I just don't think he understands Notre Dame. He certainly gets the secular side and the academic side, but he can't and won't protect the athletes nor will he fight for them. Lets be honest, academics aside, Notre Dame built their popularity and name based on the football team first. Regardless of what may have happened to the landscape of college football in the last 25 years, football has been their identity and without it they would be the Boston College of the Midwest. If Jenkins thinks Notre Dame would still be Notre Dame without that legacy, he's sorely mistaken. Refusing to fight the NCAA on this and advocating for a demotion to an "academic" league is not going to bring more prosperity to the University.

Be careful what you wish for. I've been told in the past that if Jenkins were to be removed the chances of a more "football-minded" individual taking his place is slim to none. In fact, the opposite is likely.

 

[IrishTusker]

I think the punishment is excessive, but I can’t get mad at Jenkins et al for trying to do the right thing. If you’re the only honest student in a class of cheaters, and as a result you always get the worst score on tests, you should pick a different class. We are in with a group of schools that would never admit wrongdoing, no matter how obvious. Under those circumstances, why continue to participate? It might be time to break off from the NCAA.

 

[ACamp1900]

Be careful what you wish for. I've been told in the past that if Jenkins were to be removed the chances of a more "football-minded" individual taking his place is slim to none. In fact, the opposite is likely.

Ty Willingham??

 

[ab2cmiller]

This would've never happened if we would've gotten rid of that racist leprechaun years ago.

 

[NDShark]

Be careful what you wish for. I've been told in the past that if Jenkins were to be removed the chances of a more "football-minded" individual taking his place is slim to none. In fact, the opposite is likely.

Does the board of trustees vote in the new president? If so, why wouldn't those folks want to bring a championship back?

 

[phgreek]

I've thought the NCAA was largely incompetent for a very long time. I still belive it, and now I think they are corrupt. How else do we arrive here knowing the Miami story and the North Carolina story, this is indeed perverted.

 

[IrishLax]

Does the board of trustees vote in the new president? If so, why wouldn't those folks want to bring a championship back?

So there's a Board of Fellows and a Board of Trustees. The BoF is who really has power. In short, there's a rule that a CSC priest has to be the President, and most of the potential candidates either dislike or are ambivalent towards football.

Jenkins at least wants a winning product. The next guy is more likely than not going to pull ND in the other direction. The good news is that Jenkins is unlikely to leave his post any time soon as he's done an excellent job with the school aspect of Notre Dame (which, to alumni, is the most important thing).

The only way to get a more football-friendly administration would be through some crazy turnover in the BoF. You would be shocked how many people in that group are either anti-football or don't care about football, and it's really only the fact that so many of the big donors do care about football that they've continued to try to be competitive.

None of this has anything to do with this situation except to say that if Jenkins/Swarbrick/et. al. were replaced it's unlikely the next leadership would be any better.

 

[BobbyMac]

Who cares?

Still 12-0 and the only undefeated team in the year 2012.

Still 897 all-time wins.

Still have 22 awarded NC's

Still don't give a sh!t what the Admin or the NCAA says.

This years "The Shirt" ought to read...

897 & Counting!

 

[ACamp1900]

Who cares?

Still 12-0 and the only undefeated team in the year 2012.

Still 897 all-time wins.

Still have 22 awarded NC's

Still don't give a sh!t what the Admin or the NCAA says.

This years "The Shirt" ought to read...

897 & Counting!

Notre Dame, The Shirt, 2018:

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Does the board of trustees vote in the new president? If so, why wouldn't those folks want to bring a championship back?

Because contrary to popular belief the BoT doesn't exist to give money to the football team. Its made up of people who understand that ND is more than just football and won't sacrifice the larger character of the university for a championship.

When you look at the qualifications basically required for the next president, the best hope for a guy who understands the importance of sports is Fr. Pete McCormick. There was a widespread rumor when I was on campus that he was being groomed for the presidents role, but he is still several years from being ready for it.

 

[pumpdog20]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Well done ND.

 

[wizards8507]

Can we quit the NCAA now?

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[irishtrain]

I think the punishment is excessive, but I can’t get mad at Jenkins et al for trying to do the right thing. If you’re the only honest student in a class of cheaters, and as a result you always get the worst score on tests, you should pick a different class. We are in with a group of schools that would never admit wrongdoing, no matter how obvious. Under those circumstances, why continue to participate? It might be time to break off from the NCAA.

How is it that Alabama/Georgia/Clemson etc never has academic issues with front line players -man they must be brilliant students. Rocket scientists all.

 

[irishtrain]

Who cares?

Still 12-0 and the only undefeated team in the year 2012.

Still 897 all-time wins.

Still have 22 awarded NC's

Still don't give a sh!t what the Admin or the NCAA says.

This years "The Shirt" ought to read...

897 & Counting!

I do like the 22 awarded national championships-that should drive the Alabama boys wack-o.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Jay Bilas may have nailed it in the most simplistic terms

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A student-trainer is given a “show cause.” So, a student-athlete is a student. A student-trainer is not. Notre Dame President calls the NCAA process “perverted.” He’s absolutely correct. How absurd. <a href="https://t.co/y8O81kGOvX">https://t.co/y8O81kGOvX</a></p>— Jay Bilas (@JayBilas) <a href="https://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/963567437672218624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[NorthDakota]

How is it that Alabama/Georgia/Clemson etc never has academic issues with front line players -man they must be brilliant students. Rocket scientists all.

Speaking as someone who attended a school of similar repute to those, it doesn't take a genius to graduate with a Finance degree at a school like that, it takes one step above braindead to stay eligible when your major is Phys Ed or Sports Management.

My friend(Sports Management) had classes with a kid at NDSU that was a B1G talent, but wasn't academically eligible to play FBS football. This homie slept through class if he came, didn't show up on time for tests, etc. This guy ended up being on the Dean's List, the school president made a big deal about it at our graduation. I don't think a lot of people here can actually wrap their head around the stuff that goes on at public schools that want to win. If freakin' FCS schools do stuff like that, what do you think Bama/UGA/Clemson/Etc. are up to?

 

[irishtrain]

Speaking as someone who attended a school of similar repute to those, it doesn't take a genius to graduate with a Finance degree at a school like that, it takes one step above braindead to stay eligible when your major is Phys Ed or Sports Management.

My friend(Sports Management) had classes with a kid at NDSU that was a B1G talent, but wasn't academically eligible to play FBS football. This homie slept through class if he came, didn't show up on time for tests, etc. This guy ended up being on the Dean's List, the school president made a big deal about it at our graduation. I don't think a lot of people here can actually wrap their head around the stuff that goes on at public schools that want to win. If freakin' FCS schools do stuff like that, what do you think Bama/UGA/Clemson/Etc. are up to?

Thank you and last week I actually heard finebaum (notice small caps ) comment on alabama's quality gpa for its football team and how you must recruit the right guys-if you throw enough $#!& on the wall something is bound to stick. We have a league of competition between over 100 football teams with no rules-outstanding way to not do things. The NCAA is a joke, you might as well have no rules at all. I'm sorry for pounding out the same old song but this %$^! is getting ridiculous. Next year there is about 7 teams that will make up the 4 in the playoff and 3/4 of those teams are from a conference that has been allowed to pretty much do what they want. The whole things smells and is no longer fair or worth interest to most people. As I said many times before when you have blue blood programs with no chance to make the play off because of their either strong or mild to medium academic requirements you have a football league in need of repair. And the NCAA is nothing more than a football league. I'd like to see Alabama turn itself in for over zealous student tudors that helped too much on term papers-by God that's laughable.

 

[phgreek]

I don't know what folks sign up to when they become member institutions. However, it seems this is damaging to ND, and arbitrary...even contrary to the NCAA mission, precedent, and policy that exists today.

Is there legal recourse here?

 

[wizards8507]

Is there legal recourse here?

I doubt it. I'm not a lawyer, but it would be a tough case to somehow demonstrate that the University suffered "damages."