Lebron vs. Jordan

[IrishJayhawk]

Do you understand what a cramp is like? It's impossible to move effectively (if at all), and staying in would kill your team only to serve your own ego, so yea maybe Kobe would have stayed in the game... Plus he scored 5 points with the cramp including the go ahead 3.

To be fair, he also air-balled a three with the cramp.

But I think your larger point is true. With a wicked cramp, you just can't move. You're not a benefit to your team. I don't think that part of the conversation really advances the point.

Lebron is amazing, there's no question. He may win a bunch of championships. Then we can revisit the conversation.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

We've got 10 years. Durant and Rose will be all time superstars by then and you'll have a few new superstars entering by then as well. The competition is just fine. I think the complaints Jordan played so much better guys is overblown.

Maybe so.

 

[returnofthemack]

Do you understand what a cramp is like? It's impossible to move effectively (if at all), and staying in would kill your team only to serve your own ego, so yea maybe Kobe would have stayed in the game... Plus he scored 5 points with the cramp including the go ahead 3.

...Yes I understand what a cramp is like. I've played football since I was 8 and lacrosse since i was 14, and have played through multiple cramps in both sports. It is most certainly not impossible to move. It is incredibly painful though. But you know, I figured one of the "greats" would stay in the game for the last two minutes of a close NBA finals game instead of rolling around on the ground on the sidelines. I saw a pretty funny picture on facebook of some NHL players making fun of Lebron's cramps. Did you know NHL goalies jump into ice baths immediately after games because so much lactic acid has built up in their legs? Lebron acted like his knee got shattered. I'm pretty sure he was going for the Paul Pierce fake injury, epic comeback thing...except he didn't come back.

 

[GreatGolson]

This is the funniest part.

Bird, Magic, James Worthy, Drexler, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Isiah Thomas, Ewing...

Also funny because of few of these people would be on my list in between MJ and LBJ

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

LBJ < Kobe < Bird < MJ

 

[Veer option]

Michael Jordan no if, ands, or buts.

Jordan was great but he also had a great supporting cast who played their roles very well. We often forget Pippen would have been "the man" on any other team of that era. The season Jordan was off playing baseball, Pippen and Tony Kukoc basically willed the Bulls into the Eastern conference semifinals. Kukoc was a great 6th man for the bulls. He had a deadly long range mid range jumper and had a high BB IQ. Those Bulls teams were a lot of fun because Jordan was as always amazing to watch along with the great play from the other Bulls players.

Side note:
Those Knicks vs Bulls regular season and playoff games were some of the most brutal I have ever seen.

 

[ACamp1900]

college football (until a playoff system eventually ruins it)>>>MLB>>> NHL>>>> soccer>>> CBB>>> fly fishing>>> NBA

Jordan does great commericals though, so I'll go with him.

 

[greyhammer90]

...Yes I understand what a cramp is like. I've played football since I was 8 and lacrosse since i was 14, and have played through multiple cramps in both sports. It is most certainly not impossible to move. It is incredibly painful though. But you know, I figured one of the "greats" would stay in the game for the last two minutes of a close NBA finals game instead of rolling around on the ground on the sidelines. I saw a pretty funny picture on facebook of some NHL players making fun of Lebron's cramps. Did you know NHL goalies jump into ice baths immediately after games because so much lactic acid has built up in their legs? Lebron acted like his knee got shattered. I'm pretty sure he was going for the Paul Pierce fake injury, epic comeback thing...except he didn't come back.

I'm not arguing that LBJ is in the same conversation as Jordan. But seriously? THIS is the point you decide to make? LBJ has been playing like one of the all-time greats during this series. (and don't give me that "he gets all the calls" garbage, there are stats that disprove that. Plus they don't take away his rebounds or his assists). And I am not denying that all cramps are not impossible to play through, but I have had ones that it was impossible to move and I felt like I was about to pass out. How do you know or assume that his pain was totally bearable? Or that he was trying to pull a Paul Pierce? He was one rebound away from pulling a triple-double for f*ck sake. I understand the sh*t he gets sometimes. (Like always settling for the jumper at the end of the game.... WHY??? We all know you can go to the rim anytime you want.) But the nit picks that he's getting for these playoffs is just beyond petty.

tl;dr easy on the haterade. Your bias is showing.

 

[notredomer23]

Big IF, but if the Thunder come back to win this series I would already take Durant over LBJ. Highly unlikely but you never know

 

[PerthDomer]

info on the cramps from ESPN. Caused spasms, bleeding, and severe swelling in the hamstring.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Big IF, but if the Thunder come back to win this series I would already take Durant over LBJ. Highly unlikely but you never know

Durant is a very skilled offensive player, but its painfully obvious that his overall game is no where near LeBron's. He can't play defense and he doesn't rebound. He's 6'11" and didn't get his first rebound last game until midway through the 4th quarter. He also hasn't done anything with LeBron guarding him in the 4th quarter.

This is where the obvious LeBron hatred is really stupid. He's having one of the best Finals/playoffs of all time and people say they'd take Durant over him because LeBron announced he was going to Miami on national TV.

 

[ohara831]

LBJ < Kobe < Bird < MJ

You can slip Bill Russell and Magic Johnson in the middle of that list also.

 

[loomis41973]

J
O
R
D
A
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anyone who says otherwise is as attention WHO$E

 

[Grahambo]

info on the cramps from ESPN. Caused spasms, bleeding, and severe swelling in the hamstring.

Did a quick google search on it and those symptoms came back to a pulled/strain hammy.

With LBJ, it was always mental, not physical.

Still take Jordan in a nanosecond. To each his own I suppose.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Did a quick google search on it and those symptoms came back to a pulled/strain hammy.

With LBJ, it was always mental, not physical.

Still take Jordan in a nanosecond. To each his own I suppose.

Cramps can have the same side effects. They are just muscles spasming, can tear the muscles and torn muscles bleed.

 

[tadman95]

Ten years from now we'll see but I'll take Jordan for now. Mentally tougher.

That said, Lebron has obviously matured since last year. Coming up in this digital age and all of the attention he's garnered since his early teens, I think he's figuring out talk is cheap. Jordan knew that much earlier.

I think in ten years I'll still say Jordan, too many big games, big shots, and an all time great defensive player for his position,

 

[military_irish]

When I seen the comparison.

<a href="http://www.gifbin.com/986145"><img src="http://gifs.gifbin.com/122011/1324316240_cat_jumps_off_balcony_ledge.gif" alt="funny gifs" /></a>

 

[clashmore_mike]

@LAIreland: FWIW: Jordan won his first NBA Finals MVP at age 28. Kobe won his first at 30. LeBron is going to win his at 27.

 

[returnofthemack]

I'm not arguing that LBJ is in the same conversation as Jordan. But seriously? THIS is the point you decide to make? LBJ has been playing like one of the all-time greats during this series. (and don't give me that "he gets all the calls" garbage, there are stats that disprove that. Plus they don't take away his rebounds or his assists). And I am not denying that all cramps are not impossible to play through, but I have had ones that it was impossible to move and I felt like I was about to pass out. How do you know or assume that his pain was totally bearable? Or that he was trying to pull a Paul Pierce? He was one rebound away from pulling a triple-double for f*ck sake. I understand the sh*t he gets sometimes. (Like always settling for the jumper at the end of the game.... WHY??? We all know you can go to the rim anytime you want.) But the nit picks that he's getting for these playoffs is just beyond petty.

tl;dr easy on the haterade. Your bias is showing.

Yeah, you've got me pegged completely wrong. I do not and have never given half a damn about him leaving Cleveland or anything else. As I said earlier, he is already one of the all-time greats and anyone who says he is not in the top 10 is a fool. My ultimate point is, he is not on the same level as Jordan - nobody, and I mean nobody is. If you ever make the mistake of thinking that, check out some videos of Jordan or just look at his playoff stats. Lebron played an excellent series, but nobody will achieve the absolute dominance and indomitable desire and drive to win that Jordan had. I do not hate Lebron and I am not a fan. I think he is an excellent player and have a lot of respect for him.

The cramps issue was totally separate, and I will agree to disagree. It doesn't detract from his ring or from his greatness. And frankly I don't care. Lebron is not on the level of Jordan, regardless, and that is in no way an insult or a sleight on his ability.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Fun Fact Kids:
@KingJames is the first player in NBA history with at least 650 points
200 rebounds & 100 assists in a single postseason

 

[Old Man Mike]

Hmmmmm..... should I throw some completely irritating opinion into this mess, and step away to watch the internet explode into flames [for the amusement of all those not emotionally bound to people who wear sneakers to work, play with a ball, and earn thousands of times more than the rest of us]? I wasn't going to, but the put-down-the-old-guys insinuations pushed me over the fence.

AUTHORITATIVE PRONOUNCEMENT TO WHICH THERE CAN BE NO COUNTER OPINION!!!: The greatest five players in NBA history were: [not necessarily in any order, though Russell WAS the best].

A). Bill Russell
B). Jerry West
C). Oscar Robertson
D). Larry Bird
E). Magic Johnson.... hmmmm Am I forgetting someone??

The 6th best player was Wilt Chamberlain.

7th man??? Maybe that guy who played for the Bulls.

Hah!!! Take that!!! [Close cover before striking].

 

[dshans]

What, no love for the Minneapolis Lakers? George Mikan, Elgin Baylor, Vern Mikkelsen anyone?

Many (many) years ago I worked for a bank in downtown Minneapolis. Vern Mikkelsen was a security guard there – a tale of the difference between pre and early NBA pros and today's in terms of compensation.

Vern was part of an orientation "skit" for new employees. He stormed into the meeting (there were about 15 of us) angrily complaining about this and that. He took off his badge, shouted "I quit" and threw the badge on the conference table. It bounced and landed in my lap with the pin extended and facing downward. He then stormed out.

We were then asked to describe him. In spite of my "trauma" I was the only one in the room able to do so accurately. I was spot on with his age and height and within 3 pounds of his weight. Everyone saw that he had gray hair. When he returned to retrieve his badge he chuckled and apologized for where it had landed. We were good friends from that day forward. He shared a few stories of the early, REAL Lakers over a beer or two.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Mikan completely dominated his era and could be argued to be in the top ten players of NBA history --- his warm up practice [shooting] exercise is still used.

The second best player on that team you're talking about, dshans, was Slater Martin. Yes, Mikklesen, Pollard, and Skoog were good too.

Probably the REALLY best player from Mikan's era, though was Cousy..... yeh, I know, you hate that.

 

[anarin]

@LAIreland: FWIW: Jordan won his first NBA Finals MVP at age 28. Kobe won his first at 30. LeBron is going to win his at 27.

Took Jordan 7 years with key pieces built through the draft.

Took Lebron 9 years by teaming up with 2 other superstar players.

 

[dshans]

Mikan completely dominated his era and could be argued to be in the top ten players of NBA history --- Probably the REALLY best player from Mikan's era, though was Cousy..... yeh, I know, you hate that.

Not at all. Cousy was a good'n and a favorite of mine. I didn't hit MPLS till 1979. Growing up in NY and FL I was a Celtic and Knickerbocker fan.

I miss the days when the players wore shorts and not culottes. I'm not a fan of the short-shorts period of Bird and Johnson; I just think there should be a reasonable middle ground.

 

[Grahambo]

@LAIreland: FWIW: Jordan won his first NBA Finals MVP at age 28. Kobe won his first at 30. LeBron is going to win his at 27.

That doesn't tell the whole story. This is James' 9th season and 3rd Finals. MJ won his first MVP in his first finals in his 7th year. He played 4 years at UNC. Also he ranks 2nd all-time behind John Stockton in steals.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Took Jordan 7 years with key pieces built through the draft.

Took Lebron 9 years by teaming up with 2 other superstar players.

LeBron wasted 7 years of his career with key pieces like Larry Hughes, Booby Gibson, and Sasha Pavlovic.

That doesn't tell the whole story. This is James' 9th season and 3rd Finals. MJ won his first MVP in his first finals in his 7th year. He played 4 years at UNC. Also he ranks 2nd all-time behind John Stockton in steals.

Look at the roster that LeBron took to the Finals with Cleveland, then look at Chicago's roster. It is a complete joke. Jordan also didn't play 4 years at Carolina.

My point in posting that tweet is that its not possible to compare Jordan's complete resume to LeBron's current one considering LeBron is younger than Jordan was when he broke through and he's got a lot of years left. Its not likely at all, but LeBron COULD go on a Jordan/Chicago like run of titles over the next 6 years. Then what? People will change the narrative again?

 

[DomeLover3]

Took Jordan 7 years with key pieces built through the draft.

Took Lebron 9 years by teaming up with 2 other superstar players.

While I find this a valid point, I counter by saying Lebron did it younger, meaning he has more time in his career to do it.

That said, Jordan > Lebron No question about it.

 

[NDinFL]

LeBron wasted 7 years of his career with key pieces like Larry Hughes, Booby Gibson, and Sasha Pavlovic.




Look at the roster that LeBron took to the Finals with Cleveland, then look at Chicago's roster. It is a complete joke. Jordan also didn't play 4 years at Carolina.

My point in posting that tweet is that its not possible to compare Jordan's complete resume to LeBron's current one considering LeBron is younger than Jordan was when he broke through and he's got a lot of years left. Its not likely at all, but LeBron COULD go on a Jordan/Chicago like run of titles over the next 6 years. Then what? People will change the narrative again?

The odds of a 6 year title run span by ANYONE is improbable...

That's not a knock against Lebron.

That's a statement of Jordan's accomplishments.

I sincerely doubt they will be duplicated, but if it happens, I'll tip my cap to that person.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Yes, which is why I said its not likely. It doesn't even have to be the next 6 years. My point is LeBron has A LOT of basketball to play still, and is pretty much just entering his prime as a player. At age 27, which is all we can fairly compare, would you take LeBron or Jordan? Its not as clear cut when you look at it that way.