Kelly 3rd Best Coach in CFB

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
Tim Chou recently developed a total efficiency metric for football, and ranked every CFB program accordingly. Here are the results over the last two years:

OVERALL EFFICIENCY
1. Nick Saban 10.01
2. Les Miles 9.33
3. Brian Kelly 3.83
4. Butch Jones 3.30
5. Bill Snyder 3.12
6. David Shaw 3.04
7. Chip Kelly 2.68
8. Bret Bielema 2.35
9. Will Muschamp 2.23
10. Chris Petersen 2.20

DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY
1. Nick Saban 22.37
2. Brian Kelly 22.22
3. Les Miles 20.76
4. Butch Jones 19.92
5. Chris Petersen 18.84
6. Steve Addazio 18.44
7. Will Muschamp 18.24
8. David Shaw 17.87
9. Dan Mullen 17.64
10. Brady Hoke 17.53
* 2011, 2012 Seasons Combined

Also nice to see Butch Jones coming in at 4th. Kelly's coaching tree showing out.
 

IrishSteelhead

All Flair, No Substance
Messages
11,114
Reaction score
4,686
So basically the list should read:

1. Saban
2. Miles





3.Kelly
4. The rest
 

greyhammer90

the drunk piano player
Messages
16,827
Reaction score
16,091
So basically the list should read:

1. Saban
2. Miles





3.Kelly
4. The rest

I'm surprised that Kelly is that far behind since he's ahead of Les on defensive efficiency. I don't think of Les being an offensive mastermind.
 

gkIrish

Greek God
Messages
13,184
Reaction score
1,004
I'm surprised that Kelly is that far behind since he's ahead of Les on defensive efficiency. I don't think of Les being an offensive mastermind.

Good point. I don't necessarily think Les should be behind BK in defense. But since he is, the overall should definitely be a lot closer.

Nice to see BK get some recognition, regardless.


P.S. Brady Hoke in top ten for defensive efficiency??? What am I missing?
 

greyhammer90

the drunk piano player
Messages
16,827
Reaction score
16,091
Maybe Kelly could close the gap with special teams that don't suck. That's literally the only way I can see Les being that far out ahead of BK. when you're judging coaches based on field position, not having a punt return has to hurt.
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,975
Reaction score
6,464
One more reason for people to shut their gobs instead of griping about what Coach does. When is having a top five coach anything but a privilege? Thanks BK; just stick with us.
 

dwshade

Banned
Messages
3,338
Reaction score
123
I think Butch Jones is going to do a great job at UT. Really like the guy.
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
I see your Greg Mattison and raise you a Bob Diaco.

In the context of this metric, that's not really a positive for us. If we dismiss Hoke's defensive efficiency as being attributed mostly to Mattison, we have to do the same for Kelly with Diaco.

And Mattison's a lot more likely to be at UM in 3 years than Diaco is at ND.
 

Anchorman

New member
Messages
658
Reaction score
60
Whiskey, any guesses where Meyer would be if we just used his one year at OSU or last year + his last at Florida?
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
Whiskey, any guesses where Meyer would be if we just used his one year at OSU or last year + his last at Florida?

Brian Fremeau's FEI is a similar efficiency ranking.

According to that metric, OSU and ND were nearly statistically identical in 2012. So it's likely Meyer would have been very close to Kelly in Chou's ranking.
 

GowerND11

Well-known member
Messages
6,539
Reaction score
3,287
Metrics are not tradition! Kelly sucks, and needs to be fired. We should be number 1.
-NDNation
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
I just read a compelling article at SBNation's Football Study Hall titled "Apparent Talent, Team Quality and Coaching Effects":

This is the part that is really interesting. While this model has some predictive power, it is still very simple and crude and probably not something I would want to use to say…put futures bets down on teams at a Vegas sports book. For instance, it isn’t as predictive as a simple naïve forecast that a team would have the exact same F/+ rating in a given season as it had in the previous one. And how could it be? That sort of naïve forecast has the advantage of capturing much of the same talent information (since the 4 year average recruiting ratings don’t move that much in a single year), while also capturing a whole host of other factors…like how those players are actually doing playing the game of football.

But the fact this model doesn’t capture those things actually makes it pretty useful for other purposes. Consider this simple conceptual model of team quality:

Team Quality (F/+Rating) = Apparent Talent + Coaching Effect + "Noise"

College football is a dreadfully complicated endeavor to model statistically, as you are doubtless aware. By using F/+ Rating we have already largely factored out a lot of the random in-game stuff, like bad bounces that result in one point losses, untimely misses by a walk-on field goal kicker, and so on. In this theoretical model, the "noise" factor includes a whole host of stuff ranging from key players being suspended, scandals turning the mojo around a program decidedly poor, to a whole cohort of players turning out to be grossly overrated. As anybody who follows college football knows, this stuff happens and can definitely affect how a team performs on the field, but from a statistical perspective it is truly unknowable, random and therefore can’t be considered.

The remaining piece of the puzzle is what I am calling "Coaching Effect", but refers not only to game prep and game-day coaching, but scheme, S&C program, and talent evaluation--coaches that routinely have better results than recruiting rankings indicate they should are probably doing a better job of evaluating the available talent than the ratings services are doing.

It stands to reason that over time, strong coaching staffs ought to consistently and measurably outperform (or at least perform in line) with the available talent on hand and weaker staffs will underachieve (sometimes spectacularly). Using the Apparent Talent metric and the simple model described above, we can statistically measure how well a staff performs, both in single season and over time. Of course even good coaches can have an outlier year to the downside and even lousy coaches are fortunate once in a while (cough, cough…Gene Chizik), but consistent deviation from what is predicted by the model ought to be statistically unlikely enough that it should indicate something about coaching performance. And as with most data of this kind, the really large outliers are very interesting.

The methodology was pretty simple. I calculated expected F/+ rating for each season for all AQ teams from 2006 to 2012, based on the Apparent Talent (four year star average), then compared it to the final actual F/+ for each team. I then normalized the deviations from the expected values using the standard deviation of the differences (Std Delta).

For example, the 2008 Washington Huskies were an approximately average team in terms of talent, with an Apparent Talent rating of 2.85. Based on that, they would have been expected to be an approximately average team; the model yielded a projected F/+ of 214.0. Instead, the team went 0-12 with a final F/+ rating of 143.3, just over 33%--or 2.77 standard deviations—worse than the model predicted.

Kelly's 1st season at Cincinnati was the 4th strongest season according to this metric. He appears 7 times on this table (more than any other coach, I think) and outperformed his "Apparent Talent" by an average of +13%. I haven't had time to really dig into the data yet, but it doesn't look like any other coach has so consistently overachieved over such a long period and across two different programs.

That said, the guy used Scout's recruiting data. I'm trying to get him to rerun it based off the 247 Composite.

And Saban... the vast majority of these strong seasons involved good coaches with poor to average talent. No one is overachieving with elite talent like Saban. He's simply on another planet right now.
 
Last edited:

Veer option

Anti sarcasm font
Messages
3,338
Reaction score
208
Thank goodness for Brian Kellys years at Cincinnati bringing up his average.
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
I'm surprised that Kelly is that far behind since he's ahead of Les on defensive efficiency. I don't think of Les being an offensive mastermind.

Getting back to your comparison of Miles and Kelly, Chou's efficiency metric doesn't account for differences in talent. But the new ranking linked above does. Miles appears on the list 7 times (same as Kelly), but the Hat only averaged +6% over his Apparent Talent, whereas Kelly averaged +13%.

That said, for everyone not named Nick Saban, it looks like overachieving with elite talent is really hard. Most of Kelly's advantage here comes from his success at Cincinnati with poor to average talent.
 
Last edited:

GBdomer

People's Champion
Messages
6,845
Reaction score
555
I agree with this. I would only trade Saban for Kelly though. Urban Meyer is second best coach in the country but I would never want him running this football program.
 

philipm31

Well-known member
Messages
1,863
Reaction score
84
I agree with this. I would only trade Saban for Kelly though. Urban Meyer is second best coach in the country but I would never want him running this football program.

So you would take Saban, who is every bit as suspect ethically as Meyer?

If you don't want Urban here, then I don't see why you would want Nicky.



#JustSaying
 
Top