Johnny Football

[NDWorld247]

3

Ft Lauderdale, Birmingham, and New Haven

He wasn't allegedly paid for Birmingham.

 

[ulukinatme]

From Tiger Droppings:

 

[NDWorld247]

The broker just wants to get paid. Whether it's TMZ or ESPN or the NCAA, he'll sell the video and it'll be the end of Johnny Football's Texas A&M career.

This is a great point. That video is getting out one way or another, and based on Schad's report, the video is damning enough for the NCAA to drop a significant hammer on Johnny Football.

 

[T Town Tommy]

This is a great point. That video is getting out one way or another, and based on Schad's report, the video is damning enough for the NCAA to drop a significant hammer on Johnny Football.

If JF did it and they have video evidence then I an saddened. As much as I don't care for his off the field stuff, I did like watching him on the field. Hopefully at some point JF grows up and becomes a responsible adult. I hope he gets his act together... football or not.

 

[kmoose]

Is it just me or is the dude in a cowboy hat representing ND (on the hat) and if so... ???

I think that the priest is supposed to represent ND. What looks more like a German cross, on his collar, I think is supposed to be a shamrock.

 

[Emcee77]

The NCAA doesn't make squat. They are a non profit entity. It's not like a bunch of old white guys are sitting around board rooms, getting rich off of the athletic competition amongst (mostly) minority players. The monies generated by football programs allow pole vaulters, distance runners, fencers, water polo players, soccer players, and numerous other athletes, to attend college on a scholarship. Many of those other athletes would not have otherwise had the opportunity to go to school. Those millions fund new stadiums, weight rooms, and training tables, true. But they also fund new dormitories, repairs/upkeep/renovations of many non athletic-related buildings, and facilities that might be athletic in nature, but are able to be enjoyed by the whole student body. So people need to quit whining about how much money the NCAA "makes" off of athletics.

I feel like we've gotten into this before, but I will never understand this logic.

I don't know why it matters where the money is going. That misunderstands the issue, imo. The crime of the NCAA is that the people who make the money aren't compensated fairly. Generally when this happens, the people who generate the money organize and fight for themselves. This is the idea behind organized labor. We want to minimize the societal crime of a privileged few controlling the means of production and exploiting labor by extracting profits from the labor without paying the laborers what their labor is worth. This logic does not strictly apply to the poorest of the poor; professional athletes have labor unions. Even government workers have unions. NCAA football players and basketball players do not. Why should they have to play by different rules than everyone else in society? Considering the millions and millions of dollars that their hard work generates, the college scholarship they get is grossly out of proportion with the value of their efforts. I'm not saying they should necessarily get equal shares of the money they make for universities or anything like that ... this isn't communism. But they should get more than they do.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Re: the picture.

Notre Dame seems to be represented only by Te'o. I thought maybe Holtz or Kelly would make it, given the array of coaches and media.

 

[NDBoiler]

Re: the picture.

Notre Dame seems to be represented only by Te'o. I thought maybe Holtz or Kelly would make it, given the array of coaches and media.

$10,000,000 to the first person who can accurately describe where the original artist is located in the original painting (he's still in this modified one too)

(Thank you Window to the Louvre on Wealth TV!)

 

[Kingbish01]

If we're talking about the same guy, I think that's Ok. St.

I thought it was Baylor

 

[kmoose]

I feel like we've gotten into this before, but I will never understand this logic.

I don't know why it matters where the money is going. That misunderstands the issue, imo. The crime of the NCAA is that the people who make the money aren't compensated fairly. Generally when this happens, the people who generate the money organize and fight for themselves. This is the idea behind organized labor. We want to minimize the societal crime of a privileged few controlling the means of production and exploiting labor by extracting profits from the labor without paying the laborers what their labor is worth. This logic does not strictly apply to the poorest of the poor; professional athletes have labor unions. Even government workers have unions. NCAA football players and basketball players do not. Why should they have to play by different rules than everyone else in society? Considering the millions and millions of dollars that their hard work generates, the college scholarship they get is grossly out of proportion with the value of their efforts. I'm not saying they should necessarily get equal shares of the money they make for universities or anything like that ... this isn't communism. But they should get more than they do.

Welcome to the real world, kids. My company does $12 BILLION a year, in revenues. I get paid just over $50,000. These kids aren't being "exploited" any more, or less, than the rest of us.

 

[FearTheBeard]

But how can you really determine if theyre compensated fairly? IMO its a school first then football comes and if they feel like theyre exploited then dont play. Nobodys forced to sign a NLI. Also, sometimes you may get a left tackle, or a nose guard or someone who isnt as flashy to the media or draws as much attention or jersey sales etc...but they could be the most valuable on the team. Or you may have a player who plays at a small school that tears it up on the field but hows that school supposed to pay or compensate him the same way as big schools? Theres too many problems with paying players or trying to compensate them for the revenue they may help bring in. Leave it how it is, go to school and play football, if you dont like it then dont play.

 

[kmoose]

But how can you really determine if theyre compensated fairly? IMO its a school first then football comes and if they feel like theyre exploited then dont play. Nobodys forced to sign a NLI. Also, sometimes you may get a left tackle, or a nose guard or someone who isnt as flashy to the media or draws as much attention or jersey sales etc...but they could be the most valuable on the team. Or you may have a player who plays at a small school that tears it up on the field but hows that school supposed to pay or compensate him the same way as big schools? Theres too many problems with paying players or trying to compensate them for the revenue they may help bring in. Leave it how it is, go to school and play football, if you dont like it then dont play.

Ah.... the beard is trying to keep the slaves in their place, I see.

 

[yankeeND]

Welcome to the real world, kids. My company does $12 BILLION a year, in revenues. I get paid just over $50,000. These kids aren't being "exploited" any more, or less, than the rest of us.

That is by far the best example ever given on this issue. Start from the bottom work your way to the top. I'm not against stipends for the kids, but you have to follow the rules set before you to get to where you want to be. It's that simple. Mad reps KMoose!

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...Considering the millions and millions of dollars that their hard work generates...

I gotta disagree a bit here. CFB players only generate tons of money because they're at the institutions. Seeing as how most fans follow and drive revenue to the institutions regardless of the players , the players can't really take credit for most of CFB's revenues.

For example, you could replace the entire ND team tomorrow, and I'd still watch all the games, attend the same amount of games, and buy the same amount of merchandise. So as far as I'm concerned, not a single player on the team generates one additional dime in revenue from me.

Of course there are exceptions at the margin, such as a Heisman finalist generating interest in the team, but I think that's a pretty weak case to eliminate the entire amatuer nature of college football.

 

[Emcee77]

Welcome to the real world, kids. My company does $12 BILLION a year, in revenues. I get paid just over $50,000. These kids aren't being "exploited" any more, or less, than the rest of us.

First, I don't see why that would make it ok.

Second, I have no idea what your example is meant to prove. How do I know from the fact that your company makes $12B a year in revenue that $50K/year is unfair for the work you do? How do I know whether the company makes any profit at all, based only on revenue?

So I don't know what to do with that, but I know that these players are more skilled than 99% of the population, do things 99% of the population couldn't do, work nonstop all year long, between school and athletics, to be able to do it, entertain the entire country by doing it, generate millions and millions of dollars by doing it, and receive no discretionary income for doing it. Room and board and educational benefits. It's not a bad deal, not at all ... but in general people in that position would be able to fight for a better one. Presumably you could, if you and your fellow employees could organize ... you just figure you are better off taking your $50K and moving on with your life. These kids can't do that. That strikes me as criminally unfair.

I gotta disagree a bit here. CFB players only generate tons of money because they're at the institutions. Seeing as how most fans follow and drive revenue to the institutions regardless of the players , the players can't really take credit for most of CFB's revenues.

For example, you could replace the entire ND team tomorrow, and I'd still watch all the games, attend the same amount of games, and buy the same amount of merchandise. So as far as I'm concerned, not a single player on the team generates one additional dime in revenue from me.

Of course there are exceptions at the margin, such as a Heisman finalist generating interest in the team, but I think that's a pretty weak case to eliminate the entire amatuer nature of college football.

Isn't that always true? I didn't buy my Subaru Legacy because Bubba Smith and Jimmy Jones at the Lafayette assembly plant run station 2 on the assembly line (if it's not clear, I have no idea how cars are put together ... are there stations? lol). I just want the product. Similarly, as a consumer of ND football, I just want the product, and I would consume it no matter who "made" it, i.e., no matter who is on the field. That doesn't mean I approve of treating the people who "made" it unfairly, or that they aren't "making" the product. It's their effort and expertise that makes the product what it is.

This boils down to a basic ideological debate about where value comes from though ... when you look at a car, do you see the ingenuity of the management, or the labor of the workers? I see the labor of the workers. Others will disagree. I won't be like kuehnja and belabor the point, lol.

 

[ptrigger]

If he is suspended and appeals, does he still get to play?!?!

 

[ulukinatme]

Money Badger says he's just tryin' to live his life like any other college kid, he's gonna do what he's going to do

 

[drayer54]

After hearing the $7500 figure, I'm even more convinced that this either

A) Witch hunt-->BS
B) His buddy trying to capitalize and JF gets cleared
C) ESPN/TMZ gossip that goes nowhere

If he is guilty, then let him loose. If Sumlin is wanting this headache to go away, now would be the time to get rid of it.

 

[IrishLax]

The hypothetical "how much are players worth?" thing is always quite interesting to me.

The only "value" players have is relative to other players and the value of winning to the "owner" of the team. In the NFL, if you got rid of unions/salary caps/etc. and had players be employees at "free market value" you'd have stars get paid about as much as they make now (if not more) and your second stringers would make pennies. There is no pure "entertainment" value in a player... fans will watch anybody. It's about the uniform.

Similarly, in college football players would only be worth what fans/schools were willing to put up for a better chance of a W. So a Manziel would be worth basically nothing coming out of HS, but would be worth hundreds of thousands (if not much more) now. But he's one of a kind.

Probably the best model of "free market" players is in international soccer... but even that, because of academies, bidding, transfer fees, etc. etc. isn't even close to a good model. IMO, your typical Notre Dame or Alabama would probably find 120ish people they deemed worth a scholarship... then your average starter would be worth maybe $20k to $50k on top of that (because otherwise the "little guys" like an Akron would be willing to pay that for said player to "star" on their team). Your average AJ McCarron level important player at premium position would be worth maybe $200k a year... and upwards for stars like Marquis Lee.

If you left transfer rules in place where you have to sit a year if you move teams, what you'd see are HUGE "signing bonuses" during recruiting for your 5 Jaylon Smith, Fournette, or Dorial Green-Beckham as booster slush funds supported by people like us get into bidding wars. Then you'd have salaries doled out by schools (probably HEAVILY incentive based) and supplemental salaries from the booster slush funds (probably 100% incentive based). It'd be absolutely nuts. And kind of awesome.

 

[kmoose]

First, I don't see why that would make it ok.

Regardless of whether it is right or wrong, these guys are being treated just like the vast majority of the rest of the workforce.

First, I don't see why that would make it ok.

Second, I have no idea what your example is meant to prove. How do I know from the fact that your company makes $12B a year in revenue that $50K/year is unfair for the work you do? How do I know whether the company makes any profit at all, based only on revenue?

1. I thought it didn't make a difference, where the money goes?

2. You seem to be pretty well versed on the athletic finances of all 120 DI-A football teams, though, since you are so adamantly charging that the NCAA is exploiting them?

 

[ulukinatme]

Holy crap...
Money Badger photoshop thread

 

[Booslum31]

I don't see the distinction there. The players are still coming in as "skilled workers"; sure, they develop their skills in college, but even when they come in they can do things on a football field that the general public cannot do.

I'm derailing this thread though. I certainly don't condone what Johnny Football did. He seems like a kid who has no respect for anything, and in this case he knew the rules and flouted them for money he didn't need. This isn't a case of a kid allowing a booster to buy him a suit and a plane ticket so he could attend a relative's funeral. This is a kid who was trading on his celebrity to get extra cash by breaking the rules, even though by all accounts he has plenty of cash. No excuse.

If the college athlete built it, assumed the risk for it, and invested in it then they should profit from it...but they didn't. That was someone else...the university. I just think that the athlete (and I was one) is kind of an employee who get's $200K for the time and an education that can provide even bigger benefits going forward. You want to profit from something than I think you should build it yourself. I know...old-fashioned view in this day and age.

 

[Irish Insanity]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Cam Newton said he has spoken to Johnny Manziel. Newton wouldn't discuss specifics, but he said Manziel ``has to... <a href="http://t.co/wo7JNI76PO">http://t.co/wo7JNI76PO</a></p>— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/statuses/364860689002663936">August 6, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I would assume he is just letting him know the ins and outs of making money in college and having someone else take the blame.

 

[kmoose]

How do I know from the fact that your company makes $12B a year in revenue that $50K/year is unfair for the work you do?

OK, I looked up some numbers. I personally generate a little over $75,000/month in revenue for my company. I'm on call, 24/7, to be dispatched to just about anywhere in the lower 48, where I might have to work 18-20 hour days to repair something in a timely manner. I work about 20 hours a month, OFF the clock, to get all of my reports completed on time. My work is instrumental in keeping explosives off of airliners. So I generate in the neighborhood of $900,000 a year in cash, I have a technical education (Navy Electronics/Avionics), and I have a job that directly impacts Homeland Security. I would say that, if these college kids are being exploited, then so am I.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

The hypothetical "how much are players worth?" thing is always quite interesting to me.

The only "value" players have is relative to other players and the value of winning to the "owner" of the team. In the NFL, if you got rid of unions/salary caps/etc. and had players be employees at "free market value" you'd have stars get paid about as much as they make now (if not more) and your second stringers would make pennies. There is no pure "entertainment" value in a player... fans will watch anybody. It's about the uniform.

Similarly, in college football players would only be worth what fans/schools were willing to put up for a better chance of a W. So a Manziel would be worth basically nothing coming out of HS, but would be worth hundreds of thousands (if not much more) now. But he's one of a kind.

Probably the best model of "free market" players is in international soccer... but even that, because of academies, bidding, transfer fees, etc. etc. isn't even close to a good model. IMO, your typical Notre Dame or Alabama would probably find 120ish people they deemed worth a scholarship... then your average starter would be worth maybe $20k to $50k on top of that (because otherwise the "little guys" like an Akron would be willing to pay that for said player to "star" on their team). Your average AJ McCarron level important player at premium position would be worth maybe $200k a year... and upwards for stars like Marquis Lee.

If you left transfer rules in place where you have to sit a year if you move teams, what you'd see are HUGE "signing bonuses" during recruiting for your 5 Jaylon Smith, Fournette, or Dorial Green-Beckham as booster slush funds supported by people like us get into bidding wars. Then you'd have salaries doled out by schools (probably HEAVILY incentive based) and supplemental salaries from the booster slush funds (probably 100% incentive based). It'd be absolutely nuts. And kind of awesome.

And for further basis of comparison, AAA "scale" for minor leaguers is around $2,150 per month plus meal money and that season is less than 6 months. Certain players do receive much larger signing bonuses of course, but those are paid by the MLB club and is based on future potential and has nothing to do with the value they deliver to the minor league club itself.

The reason no minor league football has arisen to compete with the NCAA for talent is because the average player gets far more compensation from the current system than subjecting everyone to the free market. Divorcing the product from the universities eviscerates its value.

Finally, I'm opposed to a NCAA system which gives out high compensation to football players because (and I ran track in college so maybe I'm biased) the net result will be reduced scholarships and opportunities for other student-athletes.

 

[ulukinatme]

 

[FLDomer]

Nothing is gonna happen to Manziel as far as the NCAA doing crap. The media is getting whipped in a frenzy, only for the NCAA to do little, to nothing about it. I was thinking of some of the recent BREAKING NEWS violations that turned out to no consequences for the "alleged" rule breaker.
Ohio State
Cam Newton
Oregon
Miami
Soon to be Manziel
Not to mention all the blind eyes to recruiting violations (looking at you Ole Miss, Clemson, pretty much all the SEC and you twat Mora)
So I guess what my thought process is dont start thinking crap will be done because the NCAA will continue their incompetence along with the media trying to make a big to do for nothin!

 

[Grahambo]

Welcome to the real world, kids. My company does $12 BILLION a year, in revenues. I get paid just over $50,000. These kids aren't being "exploited" any more, or less, than the rest of us.

You can't compare a sports superstar to us. It's not an apples to apples comparison. His signature is worth thousands; mine is worth nothing no matter what I do in my job.

Jay Bilas essentially won the O'Bannon case himself today on Twitter.

 

[TDHeysus]

Go ahead and let players profit from their autographs, but then also make those players pay their own tuition.


Incoming Players Choice:

1. Be on scholarship and not be able to make any profits from autographs

2. Make all the $$$ you can by marketing yourself*, but you wont have a scholarship.


*anything that the student profits from that has the universities property on it (such as a signed pic of the player in a game, wearing a uni; or a pic of the player sitting on a park bench with a University Hat on, etc), the student will need to pay the university a cut of that profit.

 

[kmoose]

You can't compare a sports superstar to us.

But that's what the advocates of paying athletes do, all of the time; they ask us to imagine if our employer(s) treated us like the Universities treat their athletes. What's good for the goose...............