Immigration

[Legacy]

THE WALL: The real costs of a barrier between the United States and Mexico (Brookings)

Also, commerce would be affected, specifically weapons. The ATF tried to implement a regulation that weapons dealers in the four Southwestern states bordering Mexico who have a Federal-fiream licensees would be restricted to selling two or more specific weapons in five days report those sales to the ATF to reduce gun violence. The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) sued and has been able to prevent that from being implemented. Seventy percent of weapons in Mexico come from U.S. dealers. The NSSF represents all firearms manufacturers.

The NATIONAL SHOOTING SPORTS FOUNDATION, INC., J & G Sales, Ltd. and Foothills Firearms, LLC, Appellants v. B. Todd JONES, Acting Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives, Appellee.

Before: HENDERSON and ROGERS, Circuit Judges, and EDWARDS, Senior Circuit Judge.Richard E. Gardiner argued the cause for appellants J & G Sales, Ltd. and Foothills Firearms, LLC. Stephen P. Halbrook was on brief. James B. Vogts argued the cause for appellant National Shooting Sports Foundation, Inc. Andrew A. Lothson was on brief. Michael S. Raab, Attorney, United States Department of Justice, argued the cause for the appellee. Stuart F. Delery, Acting Assistant Attorney General, Ronald C. Machen Jr., United States Attorney, and Anisha S. Dasgupta, Attorney, were on brief. Steven G. Reade was on brief for the amicus curiae The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence in support of the appellee.
In July 2011, in an effort to reduce gun trafficking from the United States to Mexico, the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) issued a demand letter under 18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(5)(A) to a number of federal firearms licensees (FFLs) in four southwest border states: Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas. The demand letter requires each recipient making two or more sales of a specific type of firearm to the same buyer within five business days to file a report with ATF. The report must include information identifying the FFL, the customer and the firearm. National Shooting Sports Foundation, Inc., J & G Sales, Ltd. and Foothills Firearms, LLC (collectively, NSSF), challenge the demand letter, arguing that ATF lacks statutory authority to issue it and that ATF acted in an arbitrary and capricious manner in selecting which FFLs are subject to it. For the reasons set forth below, we affirm the district court's grant of summary judgment to ATF.

Mexican gun laws restrict possession of weapons to within homes or with only law enforcement agencies including the military to possess outside of the home. President Trump also switched international gun sales from the State Dept to the Commerce Dept to ease restrictions on American gun manufacturers to sell guns in other countries, including Mexico.
Exclusive: Trump administration prepares to ease export rules for U.S. guns (Reuters)

American Guns Drive the Migrant Crisis That Trump Wants to Fix With a Wall (The Trace)

 

[Wild Bill]

Egypt's fence is 142 miles.

The Mexican border already has far more than 142 miles of fence, and the illegal immigrants are coming to this country by jet today. The number of illegal Mexicans hasn't increased in a decade.

I repeat this information like clockwork to the same half-dozen IE posters. One day it'll sink in.

You can repeat it over and over and it won't matter b/c it doesn't align with reality or the current demographic trends in the US.

Since 1970, the Hispanic population in the US has grown by 592%, in large part b/c of foreign born immigration, while the overall population has grown 56% during the same period of time.

In 1970 there were an estimated 9 million Hispanics in the US. In 2010, that number increased to 53 million, and it's projected to be over 100 million by 2050.

Perhaps birth rates and legal migration can explain these numbers if you're naive enough to not research them on your own. But if you take five minutes of time to look these up, it becomes apparent that the foreign born illegal immigrants account for a large percentage of the Hispanic population increase since 1970.

 

[ulukinatme]

You can repeat it over and over and it won't matter b/c it doesn't align with reality or the current demographic trends in the US.

Since 1970, the Hispanic population in the US has grown by 592%, in large part b/c of foreign born immigration, while the overall population has grown 56% during the same period of time.

In 1970 there were an estimated 9 million Hispanics in the US. In 2010, that number increased to 53 million, and it's projected to be over 100 million by 2050.

Perhaps birth rates and legal migration can explain these numbers if you're naive enough to not research them on your own. But if you take five minutes of time to look these up, it becomes apparent that the foreign born illegal immigrants account for a large percentage of the Hispanic population increase since 1970.

Fictitious numbers! Fox News propaganda! #UnwashedMasses

 

[dshans]

In 1324 there were (probably) zero people of European descent living in what is now North America. What are the numbers now? How the hell did that happen?

There shoulda been laws and a wall to keep out the flintlock, smallpox bearing bastages!

Then there were those damn Irish Catholics. The early, Protestant Scots-Irish were fine. They fit in. It was that influx of the filthy, unwashed masses of the damn Mick Papists, escaping persecution and decimation at the hands of the now "proper" and "acceptable" British whiney Prods, that were the
scourge.

"... He had arrived in 1888, one of about 4 million Irish who emigrated to the United States in the post-Famine era (1850 to 1929). "... In 1890 the Irish-born population in America reached its peak at nearly 1.9 million. Add to that the second generation, and Irish America totalled 4.8 million people, 13 per cent of the population. [Quite a jump, and quite troubling, wouldn't you say?]

By 1890 the Irish-born population in America reached its peak at nearly 1.9 million. Add to that the second generation, and Irish America totalled 4.8 million people, 13 per cent of the population. An Irish immigrant wrote to relatives in County Cork that year that “Immigration has killed the country. It is nothing to see seventeen hundred immigrants every other week at the wharfs: Swedes, Poles, Russian Jews, Hungarians and Bulgarians, and the Italians knock them all out.”

Xenophobia recognizes no borders and requires no tried or true ethnicity or place of origin.

What did you do on St. Patrick's Day? Cinco de Mayo? Chinese New Year's? Dyngus Day? Carnaval? Mardi Gras? Bastille Day?

Did any of you hit the streets on any of those days to gather, drink, eat, and get stupid?

Do you ever dine at an"authentic" ethnic restaurants and enjoy it?

Did you observe Lent, sacrifice something you usually enjoy, and then bust a gut on ham, or lamb with mint jelly, or whatever, with family, friends and a glass or three of wine?

Did you watch the Irish squeak out victories against OConn and MS State to claim the title of National Champions?




Quit your fucking bitching.

Scare tactic statistics are all too often the "weak sauce" tool of those threatened with a loss of perceived and presumed status.

Get over it, you fucking "Snowflakes."

 

[Wild Bill]

In 1324 there were (probably) zero people of European descent living in what is now North America. What are the numbers now? How the hell did that happen?

Through violent conflict, no different than anyone else currently occupying territory.

Quit your fucking bitching.

Scare tactic statistics are all too often the "weak sauce" tool of those threatened with a loss of perceived and presumed status.

Get over it, you fucking "Snowflakes."

Solid argument, old man.

 

[NorthDakota]

Yep.

Head to Flint, MI.

Take a long shower.


Be sure ingest copious amounts of the lead laden water (a real threat) rthat, at a small fraction of the cost of a bogus border wall, could eradicate problem.

Go with the unsubstantiated possible solution to an incendiary, largely fabricated, propaganda horror, rather than one that is a stone cold fact, and without pixie dust claims of Mexican funding, is achievable and of real, lasting value.

Jeebus!

Flint and/or Michigan can take care of their water. Just some low energy research on my part.... didn't look like anything the Feds did wrong. Could be wrong I guess.

Immigration....100% a Federal issue.

 

[IrishLax]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/adolfoflor...d-for-the-us?utm_term=.cladN79OWy#.ea3WaKxpZ0

 

[zelezo vlk]

That is crazy...

 

[dshans]

t.... didn't look like anything the Feds did wrong. Could be wrong I guess.

Immigration....100% a Federal issue.

Article 1, section 8 of the US constitution:"... and to provide for the general welfare."

You are right in that there was gross dereliction on the part of elected officials in Flint, but had a single party voiced concern to their Congressional Representative, it was/is fully within the scope of the power, and duty, of the federal government to raise and expend tax revenues to deal with a very concrete problem rather one that is "Trumped" up.



Yes, I went "there."

 

[Bluto]

You can repeat it over and over and it won't matter b/c it doesn't align with reality or the current demographic trends in the US.

Since 1970, the Hispanic population in the US has grown by 592%, in large part b/c of foreign born immigration, while the overall population has grown 56% during the same period of time.

In 1970 there were an estimated 9 million Hispanics in the US. In 2010, that number increased to 53 million, and it's projected to be over 100 million by 2050.

Perhaps birth rates and legal migration can explain these numbers if you're naive enough to not research them on your own. But if you take five minutes of time to look these up, it becomes apparent that the foreign born illegal immigrants account for a large percentage of the Hispanic population increase since 1970.

So?

 

[Buster Bluth]

So?

bump.

I'm curious to see how Wild Bill defends that comment as being something other than textbook xenophobia.

 

[Bluto]

bump.

I'm curious to see how Wild Bill defends that comment as being something other than textbook xenophobia.

Yeah, the economies of Texas and California are in total shambles due to Hispanics and Hispanic immigrants.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Yeah, the economies of Texas and California are in total shambles due to Hispanics and Hispanic immigrants.

There's a reason Texas has seen a huge increase in population and people are fleeing California. California is in really bad shape financially (Buster and I discussed this a few weeks ago) and illegal immigration is only making the situation worse.

Texas offers lower cost of living and no state income tax.

 

[Buster Bluth]

There's a reason Texas has seen a huge increase in population and people are fleeing California. California is in really bad shape financially (Buster and I discussed this a few weeks ago) and illegal immigration is only making the situation worse.

Texas offers lower cost of living and no state income tax.

This was not an agreed upon conclusion of our discussion.

Also that has nothing to do with Wild Bill's clearly xenophobic comment.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'd say people are leaving Cali because it's too damned expensive first and foremost. Many are fed up with the crazy, one-sided politics and the quality jobs are getting harder to come by.

 

[Bishop2b5]

This was not an agreed upon conclusion of our discussion.

Also that has nothing to do with Wild Bill's clearly xenophobic comment.

What is clearly xenophobic about Bill's stats?

 

[Buster Bluth]

What is clearly xenophobic about Bill's stats?

You need to re-read his statement and what he was responding to.

 

[ulukinatme]

Xenophobia is intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries. There's nothing irrational about hampering illegal immigration. The numbers vary depending on who you talk to, but the fact remains that tax dollars are spent every year on illegal immigrants, some of which are a burden on society and provide little to nothing in return for enjoying our freedoms.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Xenophobia is intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries. There's nothing irrational about hampering illegal immigration. The numbers vary depending on who you talk to, but the fact remains that tax dollars are spent every year on illegal immigrants, some of which are a burden on society and provide little to nothing in return for enjoying our freedoms.

Sounds like you need to reread his post too and the context too.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

This was not an agreed upon conclusion of our discussion.

Also that has nothing to do with Wild Bill's clearly xenophobic comment.

I have nothing to do with Wild Bill's comment. You can take that up with him. I thought we were in agreement that illegal immigration hurts, not helps, California's huge financial issues. Sorry if I misunderstood you earlier.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Xenophobia is intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries. There's nothing irrational about hampering illegal immigration. The numbers vary depending on who you talk to, but the fact remains that tax dollars are spent every year on illegal immigrants, some of which are a burden on society and provide little to nothing in return for enjoying our freedoms.

Yup. Doesn't matter if illegals are from Mexico or New Zealand.

 

[ulukinatme]

Sounds like you need to reread his post too and the context too.

No, not really.

I reread it anyway, as we are the unwashed masses. I don't see why a statement of facts warrants throwing out xenophobia. A xenophobic statement would be "I want to murder all the citizens of Whiskeyland" or "The people of Cacklahoma are the turd stains of a man's underwear and aren't fit to pickup garbage" or "Wizopolis people are a blight and should be relocated to Guantanamo Bay."

Too often comments like xenophobia get thrown around when someone doesn't agree with someone else's position on a matter. They try to guilt the other party by creating some kind of quasi-moral ground when it's a bunch of trumped up nonsense. When you look up real world examples of xenophobia in history you get examples like the Holocaust, the KKK, Rwanda genocides, ethnic cleansings, Japanese segregation during WWII, etc. Closer to home as an example, a xenophobic person would be someone who rejects other cultures in America, like asking for the removal of Mexican restaurants or holidays like celebrating St. Patty's Day. You don't see xenophobic examples of countries preventing illegal immigration. Again, we're talking about "an intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries." Wild Bill's statement had none of that.

I'm not even sure why we're having this discussion to be honest, it's not like Obama, Clinton, and other past presidents haven't at one point or another preached about illegal immigration.

 

[Buster Bluth]

No, not really.

I reread it anyway, as we are the unwashed masses. I don't see why a statement of facts warrants throwing out xenophobia. A xenophobic statement would be "I want to murder all the citizens of Whiskeyland" or "The people of Cacklahoma are the turd stains of a man's underwear and aren't fit to pickup garbage" or "Wizopolis people are a blight and should be relocated to Guantanamo Bay."

Yeah when someone brings up the fact that the illegal immigrant population hasn't really moved in over a decade and they respond with "bullshit the Hispanic population is going to be X large in 2050!" ...the fact that they're so concentrated on the size of a mostly legal population of people and present it as evidence to illegal immigration being a national problem strikes me as an irrational dislike of a people. I'd love Wild Bill to come on here and elaborate on his comments though.

Too often comments like xenophobia get thrown around when someone doesn't agree with someone else's position on a matter. They try to guilt the other party by creating some kind of quasi-moral ground when it's a bunch of trumped up nonsense. When you look up real world examples of xenophobia in history you get examples like the Holocaust, the KKK, Rwanda genocides, ethnic cleansings, Japanese segregation during WWII, etc. Closer to home as an example, a xenophobic person would be someone who rejects other cultures in America, like asking for the removal of Mexican restaurants or holidays like celebrating St. Patty's Day. You don't see xenophobic examples of countries preventing illegal immigration. Again, we're talking about "an intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries." Wild Bill's statement had none of that.

If you can't see the xenophobic rhetoric coming from the White House on a constant basis and being eaten up by his cult worshippers, that's on you. I think Wild Bill's comment was textbook xenophobia, and I'd love to see him explain who it wasn't. You and I don't know exactly what he meant, so he can respond. He's a grown up.

I'm not even sure why we're having this discussion to be honest, it's not like Obama, Clinton, and other past presidents haven't at one point or another preached about illegal immigration.

They sure did and guess what happened? Illegal immigrant numbers plateaued around 2008 and have changed little since...

And on the matter of Mexican illegal immigrants, damn near 20% of the illegal Mexican population has gone back to Mexico in the last ten years:

Leaving us with a population of illegal immigrants who have been here for a decade or more and have plugged into communities and are raising American children:

BUT THE WALL! THE WALL!

Xenophobia or not someone has to be a real fucking clown to get caught up in the fervor that there are illegal immigrants storming into this country. There is an irrational view of the illegal immigrant situation in this country.

I can't wait to repeat this conversation in six weeks for the same IE crowd.

 

[Wild Bill]

Got heated in here, huh?

The crux of the issue is whether or not illegal immigration across our southern border has played a significant role in the disproportionate growth of the Hispanic population in the US as compared to the overall US population growth. Overwhelming data available to all internet users suggests it was a factor, it is still a factor and it will be a factor in the future unless a physical barrier is built. The left, neocons and big business all understand physical barriers are incredibly effective which is why they will fight it to the very end.

You are correct that illegal crossings have declined in recent years but to what extent? Just last month the Border Patrol reported making 40,000 arrests of people illegally crossing the border (how many successfully crossed? Who the hell even knows). Perhaps that number dips in future months but if conditions remain the same, I think it’s reasonable to assume thousands of people will make a run for that border and thousands of people will succeed this month and every month moving forward until there is a change. This just isn’t palatable to me, and more importantly, its isn’t palatable to an overwhelming majority of Americans. This may strike you as odd – the majority of Americans prefer an immigration policy that serves the interest of America. And it gets crazier – they actually believe those who are allowed in should not be dictated by who is the most elusive runner at the border, and instead prefer a system where we, the citizens, dictate who can come and who cannot. I know, textbook xenophobia. Jokes aside, most Americans silence themselves on the issue when they are attacked by you and those like you so I understand why you would use the tactic. It doesn’t have the same effect on me but if you feel compelled to label me a xenophobe for noticing patterns and having an opinion that doesn’t meet your delicate sensibilities, so be it.

I was raised by foreign born immigrants and most of my family members live outside of the US as citizens of a foreign nation. Of course it’s still possible that my views and opinions on immigration are rooted in xenophobia, despite being raised by foreigners and living among foreigners for most of my life. I would disagree. It did, however, give me an interesting perspective on immigration, nationalism, assimilation, etc.

 

[ulukinatme]

Looking at those numbers, the first thing that jumps out at me is that we lost about a million immigrants between 2007 and 2009. ICE does most of their removals at the border these days, it looks like there's only 60-80k internal removals each year. So where did the other illegal immigrants go? They could possibly have decided to go back to their countries of origin, but that's still a lot of people...we're talking almost 1/10th of the population? Seems more likely that the data is off. It's impossible to get accurate numbers when we're talking illegal immigrants. They always provide estimates. It looks like they use a method of taking the US Census data and skewing it 10% based on a study down at Southern Cal several years ago. The study had a small sample size though, less than 1000 people were surveyed it looks like.

I'm pretty tired, so I may not be making much sense. In any case, I'm not sure how reliable the data is given the subject and it's leading me to more questions than answers.

 

[ACamp1900]

Do you feel it's important that immigrants to this country respect our sovereignty or not? It really is that simple once you get rid of all of the emotional, mind job, bs...

 

[Legacy]

“Blue Card” Legislation Proposes New Path To Citizenship For Undocumented Farmworkers (Modern Farmer)

In a case of legislation finally responding to the world as it actually is, a group of US senators this month introduced the Agricultural Worker Program Act.

It’s estimated that around 60 percent of all US farmworkers are undocumented immigrants. We don’t know for sure, because undocumented farmworkers are understandably hesitant to announce themselves or allow themselves to be counted in a census, for fear of deportation. Farmers in the country’s biggest growing regions, especially in California, have suffered from a labor shortage for years, and many fear that under the Trump administration, stricter immigration laws will result in deportations and a further lack of labor for their farms.

The idea is simple: any farmworker who has worked in the agricultural industry for at least 100 days of each of the past two years would be eligible for a “Blue Card.” (Green would logically be the best color to indicate an agriculture-based legal status but unfortunately, it’s already taken.) Blue Card holders would also be put on the fast track to a more permanent status in the US (either a green card or residency); depending on the number of hours worked, they could be eligible in three to five years.

 

[dshans]

I agree that Green would be the best representative color for the card.

It could be white, though in honor of white onions, garlic, parsnips ,horseradish, and (peeled) russet potatoes.

Red would work with beets, red onions, many apple varieties, cherries, radishes, unpeeled rutabagas/turnips, strawberries, raspberries, cranberries, (peeled) blood oranges, and (peeled) Ruby Red grapefruit.

Aside from some hybrid corn and potatoes, there aren't many blue crops that I can think of.

Well ... there are blueberries.

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Boxer Rod Salka had trunks that read “America 1st” and looked like a wall in his fight against Mexican fighter Francisco Vargas.<br><br>Salka then proceeded to get bodied by Vargas. &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;<a href="https://t.co/LsGRKodZA8">pic.twitter.com/LsGRKodZA8</a></p>— The Shadow League (@ShadowLeagueTSL) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShadowLeagueTSL/status/984773823340916736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[Cackalacky]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Breaking: Supreme Court invalidates part of federal law requiring mandatory deportation of immigrants convicted of some crimes. For first time, Justice Neil Gorsuch joins with more liberal Justices to produce 5-4 majority -<a href="https://twitter.com/Arianedevogue?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Arianedevogue</a> reports</p>— Jim Sciutto (@jimsciutto) <a href="https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/986252077109309442?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 17, 2018</a></blockquote>
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