Game of Thrones

[ACamp1900]

FfC was one of the harder reads I’ve ever gotten through,... I was like,”dafaq happened to this story!?” Pretty much the whole way through it. Maybe a second attempt will help who knows?

 

[Irish YJ]

To those shocked or outraged or severely disappointed the NK died in E3... The title is the Game of Thrones. The Throne isn't the entire the story, but it was always the final destination.

I would have preferred a little more NK, but always thought the the last episode or last big twist is who ends up on the throne. But likely too much to cover in the next 3 episodes to extend him and still part correctly with several other big characters.

ON the characters

Jon - always destined to win the throne while not wanting it.
Dany - always destined to almost get there, and then lose it. And maybe go mad.
CL - always destined for misery as foretold by the witch
JL - always destined for redemption, and likely killing CL
Arya - given her entire story, always destined to kill the NK. it wasn't just to kill Frey. Not sure what she has left. Perhaps she kills the mountain after the mountain kills the hound?

Bran - still not sure on him. what worth does he have with the NK gone? must be something more going on. I think he might tie in to Howland Reed.
Sansa - i think she'll just be noise
BoT - will she end up with JL? he likes them blonde lol. might she kill CL after CL kills JL?

Davos - likely a victim this weekend. Now that Melisandre is done, not sure what he brings.
Tyrion - Have no clue how he turns out. Live happily ever after with Sansa? IDTS

So who do you guys think is totally safe? In other words, whose death would completely shock you at this point?

For me it would be Arya, Sansa, Davos, Sam, and Bran.

I could still see any other character dying. Tyrion is my hot take prediction for a shocking death.

I think it's truly 50/50 for:

1) The Hound
2) Brienne
3) Jaime
4) Tormund
5) Bronn

Safe until the final episode - CL, JL, JS/AT, DT, and Sam (only because we think he's GRRM and we're looking through his eyes)

Safe until at least the second to last episode - Hound, Mountain, Euron,

The rest could die at anytime.

Ok now this theory from Reddit actually gets me excited and would (a) give a satisfactory explanation as to the NK motives and (b) would actually give Bran's story a satisfying end. I haven't really thought it all through but on the surface it seems awesome. https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bios84/spoilers_extended_the_only_way_out_of_this_mess/

Can't see, although I think Bran still has a surprise left. If he was the evil 3ER, doubt he would have took the time to tell Theon he was a good man.

In all seriousness, after reading what you, wiz and others have posted, I'm really glad I didn't read all of the books. Sounds like I'd enjoy the show far less. Right now, I'm mostly content with the surface-level elements being tied together and I'm not forcing myself to think about it any deeper.

That's all I want from the last three episodes: better CGI, Cersei's death, an end to this saga. This season hasn't been among the best they've had but it's at least getting us to the finish line.

I'm sooooo happy I didn't read the books. Even if I did, doubt my pearl clutching would rise to the level of some.

That's partially just due to the way GRRM works. He "gardens', he plants seeds and sees where the story takes him. The good thing about the books is that those vines are like branching storylines, when he drops something it's in service of other threads that converged or took their place.

The show just drops stuff for no reason.

Most good series and movies have a ton of planted seeds. Call some red herrings, some character branches, and some lore or back story. Without them, we're just watching a predictable A-B story.

In translating the books to the show, there's just too many to tie without going 10 seasons. I guarantee though we'll see sequels and prequels that utilize some of the things left unanswered.

 

[GATTACA!]

A great comment from /r/GameOfThrones

The "key lesson" of Game of Thrones (or A Song of Ice and Fire) was never "expect the unexpected". The books gained notoriety from their verisimilitude and their aggressive subversion of fantasy tropes, but they followed their own sense of internal logic slavishly. It was a case of "this isn't your traditional fantasy series", not "LOL CRAZY SHIT GONNA HAPPEN YO, CHECK THOSE EXPECTATIONS".

Ned dies because his honor makes him rigid and inflexible politically, allowing him to be outmaneuvered by less restrained adversaries.

Robb dies because he is his father's son, and is baited into a political trap by a more seasoned opponent.

Jon "dies" because his obsession with being a good man and doing the "right thing" outweighs his duty and responsibility to the Night's Watch, resulting in his own men turning against him.

Tywin's prioritization of his family legacy and stature above all things leads to the abuse and neglect of his dwarf son, which becomes his undoing.

Dany's simple minded sense of righteousness gets her in trouble in the sticky political morass that is Mereen and Slaver's Bay.

And on and on and on. Characters constantly undermined and undone by their own proclivities, their best qualities often becoming their achilles heel. Once you learn the "rules" of the world as the author plots it out, it's anything but a constant string of unbelievable surprises and reversals.

This of course has NOT been true of the show, at least those portions of the show that strayed from or moved past the adapted material. D&D love surprises, almost as much as they like dick jokes and spectacle. They thought the value was in the surprise of it, and not in the world building or character texturing that the events established. Which is why everything now feels so hollowed out, so hand wavy, so formulaic and occasionally outright silly.

Ideas like "Game of Thrones is all about subverting expectations!" or "Game of Thrones is all about how anyone can die at any time!" are very shallow reads of the material. It's easy to subvert expectations. It's one of the simplest, laziest things a writer can do. Doing it in a way that feels earned, or satisfying, is an entirely different animal, and that's something these writers have proven entirely incapable of. All of that careful, intricate world building and characterization that typified the novels went straight out the window, and was replaced by Rule of Cool, because that's what D&D know and enjoy. Rather than training to be a faceless assassin who kills quietly via disguise and surprise...which alone takes ages and obliterates the trainee's personality...she becomes a ninja flipping jedi Assassin doing bicycle kicks and effortlessly defeating far more experienced and trained opponents in a matter of a few short months. Why? Because D&D think that's COOL. They think Arya is COOL. What could be COOLER than having your teenaged ninja assassin jump out of nowhere to assassinate the Night King with a sick dagger stab to the stomach? FOOKING AWESOME, right? Arya is a BADASS.

That's your show. That's the key lesson it's teaching you now. Is it FOOKING AWESOME? If so, they'll find a way to cram it in. Don't "expect the unexpected". Expect COOL SHIT, and dick jokes, and plot contrivance.

 

[Circa]

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The amount of drivel that can come from a great series based in complete fantasy and those that think they could have done better...
I mean.... When Is the last time you saw a man look into a dragon's eyes and thought about the implications so long...
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[Circa]

and, I haven't read on twitter or here the implications of Tyrion and Sansa's lil moment in the crypt, 3rd episode.
In the 2nd episode, the mother of dragons clearly implied her will for the throne and Sansa was having none of It without her rule of the North.
This should carry the next few episodes at least....

 

[GATTACA!]

Maisie Williams on finding out she kills the Night King:

I immediately thought that everybody would hate it; that Arya doesn't deserve it. The hardest thing is in any series is when you build up a villain that's so impossible to defeat and then you defeat them...it had to be intelligently done because otherwise people are like, "well, [the villain] couldn't have been that bad when some 100-pound girl comes in and stabs him.

She gets it. Too bad the writers don't.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Maisie Williams on finding out she kills the Night King:



She gets it. Too bad the writers don't.

Rather have Jon do it?

Now, that, would be cliche.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Rather have Jon do it?

Now, that, would be cliche.

How about have the guy with mystical powers kill the other guy with mystical powers? Or play some sort of role, any role, do something that makes sense...nope instead he flies some ravens around the NK's head. Then Jon screams at an undead dragon. Dany inexplicably let's her dragon get overrun with the whites. BoT, Jaime, Grey Worm, Sam, an Pod are literally fighting up against a wall against 100+ whites each. Theon just decides to run full frontal at the NK and the others because...that seems appropriate for the moment. Then Arya jumps from...somewhere? The biggest moment of the entire series to date has little payoff for most viewers. It could have been so much bigger, interconnecting, and full of lore. Instead we go this.

 

[gkIrish]

How about have the guy with mystical powers kill the other guy with mystical powers? Or play some sort of role, any role, do something that makes sense...nope instead he flies some ravens around the NK's head. Then Jon screams at an undead dragon. Dany inexplicably let's her dragon get overrun with the whites. BoT, Jaime, Grey Worm, Sam, an Pod are literally fighting up against a wall against 100+ whites each. Theon just decides to run full frontal at the NK and the others because...that seems appropriate for the moment. Then Arya jumps from...somewhere? The biggest moment of the entire series to date has little payoff for most viewers. It could have been so much bigger, interconnecting, and full of lore. Instead we go this.

Didn't Star Wars have a similar end though?

Luke Skywalker was getting zapped by the Emperor. Vader was somewhere off screen fighting rebel troops. Chewbacca comes running in, picks up the Emperor, and throws him down the shaft.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Didn't Star Wars have a similar end though?

Luke Skywalker was getting zapped by the Emperor. Vader was somewhere off screen fighting rebel troops. Chewbacca comes running in, picks up the Emperor, and throws him down the shaft.

No, no, no. Vader came full circle and brought balance to the force just like it was foretold. He threw the emperor down that ventilation shaft. And it all made complete sense.

 

[wizards8507]

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/29/opin...winterfell-theon-redemption-maltby/index.html

In case anyone was a hilariously (sad) read this morning.

This is the most #MeToo GoT article, I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot. Lol

 

[phork]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/29/opin...winterfell-theon-redemption-maltby/index.html

Funny article in regards to how all the rape and salt wives appeal to young men, since this is a malecentric show afterall.

 

[ACamp1900]

Didn't Star Wars have a similar end though?

Luke Skywalker was getting zapped by the Emperor. Vader was somewhere off screen fighting rebel troops. Chewbacca comes running in, picks up the Emperor, and throws him down the shaft.

Bro

 

[beryirish]

Bro

lol I like to think that was a joke...I think.

 

[greyhammer90]

Was thinking about it last night and Jon's most lasting contribution in the battle against the White Walkers was that he needed to be saved, got the NK a dragon, and got the wall destroyed.

Dude is the worst Lord Commander of the Night's Watch ever.

 

[GATTACA!]

Bro

Were your expectations not subverted?

 

[GATTACA!]

Was thinking about it last night and Jon's most lasting contribution in the battle against the White Walkers was that he needed to be saved, got the NK a dragon, and got the wall destroyed.

Dude is the worst Lord Commander of the Night's Watch ever.

Technically Dolorous Ed was Lord Commander when the Wall fell.

 

[wizards8507]

Didn't Star Wars have a similar end though?

Luke Skywalker was getting zapped by the Emperor. Vader was somewhere off screen fighting rebel troops. Chewbacca comes running in, picks up the Emperor, and throws him down the shaft.

And then, when you least expect it...

BAH GAWD, THAT'S KANE'S MUSIC!

"Subverting expectations" isn't an excuse for nonsense storytelling.

 

[ACamp1900]

Was thinking about it last night and Jon's most lasting contribution in the battle against the White Walkers was that he needed to be saved, got the NK a dragon, and got the wall destroyed.

Dude is the worst Lord Commander of the Night's Watch ever.

The only Starks good at anything died seasons ago... and then there's Arya...

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

My #1 question/plot hole from the episode...

How, in the world, was no previous 3ER able to stop the NK?

Bran was NK for what, a few weeks, and comes up with a plan to snag him? Were the previous 3ERs jackasses? On the NKs side? Lazy?

What makes Bran more special/smarter than previous "career" 3ERs?

 

[IrishLion]

My #1 question/plot hole from the episode...

How, in the world, was no previous 3ER able to stop the NK?

Bran was NK for what, a few weeks, and comes up with a plan to snag him? Were the previous 3ERs jackasses? On the NKs side? Lazy?

What makes Bran more special/smarter than previous "career" 3ERs?

It seemed that the 3ER and the NK were bound by the laws of magic to not come into contact with each other... Bran fucked that up when he warged without the 3ER's supervision.

That opened up the opportunity for the NK to officially start his march on the Wall.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

My #1 question/plot hole from the episode...

How, in the world, was no previous 3ER able to stop the NK?

Bran was NK for what, a few weeks, and comes up with a plan to snag him? Were the previous 3ERs jackasses? On the NKs side? Lazy?

What makes Bran more special/smarter than previous "career" 3ERs?

(also, to answer my own question)

I'm guessing the directors would say that "there's only ever been one actual 3ER, just different hosts...therefore, this has been the one plan by the one 3ER that has taken hundreds of years to unfold..."

That's lame.

 

[ACamp1900]

Off track but I've often thought if Bran and the 3ER can do all this stuff... why can't they and others come up with some way for him to heal??

 

[Henges24]

Came across an article headline that read:

“Game of Thrones is killing off entire immigrant populations and it’s a problem”

Please nuke the earth.

 

[Emcee77]

Ok now this theory from Reddit actually gets me excited and would (a) give a satisfactory explanation as to the NK motives and (b) would actually give Bran's story a satisfying end. I haven't really thought it all through but on the surface it seems awesome. https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bios84/spoilers_extended_the_only_way_out_of_this_mess/

Hmm, that is interesting, but ...

I can feel this post in my bones:



Another poster goes on to mention that Arya snuck up on the NK in the exact spot where she snuck up on Jon in 8.1.

They were building this shit for 8 seasons. I love it.

I do kind of feel this? Don't get me wrong, I agree with A LOT of what's in the following two posts:

Absolutely not. I'm 95% sure that GRRM only gave them a very rough outline of where he intended things to finish. Specific details like who precisely kills the Night King, etc. seem not to have been included. Which is why Benioff and Weiss are just making most of this up as they go.

The problem with Arya killing the NK isn't that she's not "powerful" enough. At this point in the story, there are several protagonists that could make the grade on that front: Jon is a fated dragon-riding prince with a magic sword; Bran is time-traveling psychic; Arya is a master assassin, etc. But as far as the books are concerned, the NK just isn't the sort of problem she's meant to solve.

She can infiltrate, deceive and assassinate better than anyone. GRRM focuses on her "list" (which includes only normal human beings that have wronged her), both as a way to show how her initial drive for vengeance isn't sustainable (most of the people on her list are already dead by the time she returns to Westeros), and to emphasize her eventual impact on the Game of Thrones. But she's got no connection to the supernatural evil that the NK represents, and her skillset doesn't imply she'll be the one to defeat him.

It'd be like if Sauron was killed by Legolas shooting an arrow into the giant flaming eye at some point. Legolas is easily the most skilled and badass fighter in the Fellowship, but Sauron's just not the type of enemy that can be defeated like that. As far as fantasy narrative goes, you can't give him that ending without elevating Legolas far above what he was in the books, or diminishing Sauron significantly.

GRRM knows that, so I very much doubt Arya will be the one to kill the NK in the books. Benioff and Weiss don't know that, though, so they just picked the Westerosi Avenger that seemed most appropriate to them. GRRM bears much of the blame for this since the showrunners shouldn't have to be filling in his blanks. But B & W are not up to the task of finishing this story satisfactorily.

The issue isn't this episode, it's the deeper structure of the show (or lack of it) that's been slowly rotting this series from the inside for several years. You're right that this episode was one where the NK was either going to win or lose, but it's the writing of the show that brought us to this point with a ton of loose threads that are never getting tied up. Yes, this was an hour and a half episode, so they gave him a fair send-off in terms of time and money, but people still feel cheated because the pacing on this show is so bad that everything is going to feel rushed regardless. The battle for humanity just ended in one night and 4 minor characters died. The white walkers were just wiped out and they never fought a single noble (Edit: This is incorrect, technically Theon "fought" the NK lol). Keep in mind we've previously spent seasons watching Dany lounge in Meereen and deal with slavers who like to wear masks.

White Walkers apparently are evil for the sake of being evil villains. Their motivations don't matter. Motivations of the children of the forest don't matter either. Azor Ahai prophecies are all garbage apparently. Arya was not born again amidst smoke and salt; she did not wake dragons from stone; and she did not wield lightbringer against the darkness. Despite being a paranoid drunk, Cersei is apparently a master strategist in the show because everything she thinks will happen happens. She calls more future events than Bran. Bran's powers are useless in the scheme of the plot, other than that he has those powers makes the Night King want to kill him personally. This isn't really explained. If the goal is just to kill Bran why does the Night King need to do it himself? If the Night King wants to do something else, then it was never told to us so it might as well not exist.

The fact that a reasonable person could say "How are they going to possibly finish all this in the next 4 episodes?" and could now say "What are they going to do to fill the next three episodes?" shows that at this point the plot is held together by popsicle sticks and duct tape.

But unfortunately, I fear that Whiskey and greyhammer set their standards too high. The reason GRRM can't finish the books is because the series is unfinishable. GRRM branched out too widely and there is simply no way to make all those storylines connect in any satisfactory way, because, as GRRM himself has admitted, he writes with no real plan; he "gardens" by indulging himself in writing an episode and just seeing where it goes.

But this is how literary careers founder. The best writers have discipline; GRRM doesn't. The idea was beautifully expressed in the Frank Langella film "Starting Out in the Evening," in which an aging, frustrated writer whose output has fallen off explains how he used to write by inventing characters and seeing what they do, but at a certain point, "they ceased to do anything interesting," IIRC. Something like that is happening to GRRM. His method of writing just ceases to work after a while, after the author has spent too long just letting the characters he has invented take the reins.

So the reality is that the show was always going to be imperfect if was going to try to tie all these threads together. If you look at it that way, then I think Arya killing the night king is not SO bad.

Arya went to Braavos to learn how to be an assassin. Being an assassin required her to become "no one." She didn't want to be "no one," she wanted to be Arya Stark. She returned to Westeros to be Arya Stark.

According to the show, the NK wants to bring to the human world total death, even to the point of an absence even of memory. That is very like what Arya rejected by declining to become a true Faceless Man, a commitment to death and to forgetfulness, and that is what she prevented by killing the NK. She said to the God of Death, not today. We watched her train to be an assassin for hours and hours of screen time, but she rejected a full and total commitment to death, so, ultimately, she used her assassins training to sneak through a zombie infested castle and hide in a tree until the NK came within striking distance so she could assassinate him.

Is it fully satisfying? It is NOT. Is it bad? Kind of. But does it completely lack any sort of satisfying narrative logic? It does not! I thought it was ok! And I think we should be fine with ok, because it's better than GRRM is ever gonna do, by the looks of things at the moment.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

But unfortunately, I fear that Whiskey and greyhammer set their standards too high. The reason GRRM can't finish the books is because the series is unfinishable. GRRM branched out too widely and there is simply no way to make all those storylines connect in any satisfactory way, because, as GRRM himself has admitted, he writes with no real plan; he "gardens" by indulging himself in writing an episode and just seeing where it goes.

But this is how literary careers founder. The best writers have discipline; GRRM doesn't. The idea was beautifully expressed in the Frank Langella film "Starting Out in the Evening," in which an aging, frustrated writer whose output has fallen off explains how he used to write by inventing characters and seeing what they do, but at a certain point, "they ceased to do anything interesting," IIRC. Something like that is happening to GRRM. His method of writing just ceases to work after a while, after the author has spent too long just letting the characters he has invented take the reins.

Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen is a good counterpoint to this. He sold it to Tor as a 10 book series, had the entire thing planned out before he even started writing the first book, and it's consistently solid from beginning to end. There's not a single entry that's as wandering and unfocused as AFfC or ADwD.

I guess the lesson is don't emotionally invest in a long series (book or TV) unless the author has a plan and is prepared to deliver. Lost and aSoIaF have burned a lot of people.

So the reality is that the show was always going to be imperfect if was going to try to tie all these threads together. If you look at it that way, then I think Arya killing the night king is not SO bad.

...

Is it fully satisfying? It is NOT. Is it bad? Kind of. But does it completely lack any sort of satisfying narrative logic? It does not! I thought it was ok! And I think we should be fine with ok, because it's better than GRRM is ever gonna do, by the looks of things at the moment.

BUT, to be fair, the show followed the books quite closely for the first 5 seasons. So the readers weren't entirely unjustified in expecting a more GRRM-worthy ending than what we've gotten. As I've mentioned before, he obviously shares as much or more blame here for creating the gaps that Benioff and Weiss have had to fill.

But it's obvious that they're just not very good writers. They imagine a "cool" scene and then write their way to it, regardless of how nonsensical or out-of-character it might be. Thus we have Melisandre riding out of the blackness (where the Army of the Dead is waiting!) without any explanation, lighting the Dothraki swords on fire (cool effect), the pointless cavalry charge (seeing the lights go out builds dread), etc. That's what hack writers do.

I give them all the credit in the world for selling HBO on this series in the first place, for casting and promoting it so well, and for adapting it (somewhat) faithfully while they had GRRM's writings to draw off of. But as someone who has been waiting over 20 years to learn how this all ends, I can't help but be disappointed.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen is a good counterpoint to this. He sold it to Tor as a 10 book series, had the entire thing planned out before he even started writing the first book, and it's consistently solid from beginning to end. There's not a single entry that's as wandering and unfocused as AFfC or ADwD.

I guess the lesson is don't emotionally invest in a long series (book or TV) unless the author has a plan and is prepared to deliver. Lost and aSoIaF have burned a lot of people.



BUT, to be fair, the show followed the books quite closely for the first 5 seasons. So the readers weren't entirely unjustified in expecting a more GRRM-worthy ending than what we've gotten. As I've mentioned before, he obviously shares as much or more blame here for creating the gaps that Benioff and Weiss have had to fill.

But it's obvious that they're just not very good writers. They imagine a "cool" scene and then write their way to it, regardless of how nonsensical or out-of-character it might be. Thus we have Melisandre riding out of the blackness (where the Army of the Dead is waiting!) without any explanation, lighting the Dothraki swords on fire (cool effect), the pointless cavalry charge (seeing the lights go out builds dread), etc. That's what hack writers do.

I give them all the credit in the world for selling HBO on this series in the first place, for casting and promoting it so well, and for adapting it (somewhat) faithfully while they had GRRM's writings to draw off of. But as someone who has been waiting over 20 years to learn how this all ends, I can't help but be disappointed.

This was so damn dumb. Jorah would never approve of it since he's not a damn idiot. If you wanted that scene, at least build up to it by throwing out some sort of "the Dothraki are getting antsy, they're not used to waiting for their enemy." Something, otherwise it's just charging immediately into darkness.

 

[IrishLion]

This was so damn dumb. Jorah would never approve of it since he's not a damn idiot. If you wanted that scene, at least build up to it by throwing out some sort of "the Dothraki are getting antsy, they're not used to waiting for their enemy." Something, otherwise it's just charging immediately into darkness.

Everyone in the entire world knows that the cavalry should have been held in reserve and then used to punish the undead horde with a sweeping move from either/both flanks.

BUT

We've been told many a time that the Dothraki don't play that. They charge the open field. That's their MO and that's basically all they're good at.

It's fitting that they went out that way.

(of course Dany should have told them to stay back in reserve and charge to break the horde, but the Unsullied were obviously much more disciplined for reserve fighting, via the phalanx move)

(the whole battle plan was dumb as shit, but they were screwed no matter what)

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen is a good counterpoint to this. He sold it to Tor as a 10 book series, had the entire thing planned out before he even started writing the first book, and it's consistently solid from beginning to end. There's not a single entry that's as wandering and unfocused as AFfC or ADwD.

I guess the lesson is don't emotionally invest in a long series (book or TV) unless the author has a plan and is prepared to deliver. Lost and aSoIaF have burned a lot of people.



BUT, to be fair, the show followed the books quite closely for the first 5 seasons. So the readers weren't entirely unjustified in expecting a more GRRM-worthy ending than what we've gotten. As I've mentioned before, he obviously shares as much or more blame here for creating the gaps that Benioff and Weiss have had to fill.

But it's obvious that they're just not very good writers. They imagine a "cool" scene and then write their way to it, regardless of how nonsensical or out-of-character it might be. Thus we have Melisandre riding out of the blackness (where the Army of the Dead is waiting!) without any explanation, lighting the Dothraki swords on fire (cool effect), the pointless cavalry charge (seeing the lights go out builds dread), etc. That's what hack writers do.

I give them all the credit in the world for selling HBO on this series in the first place, for casting and promoting it so well, and for adapting it (somewhat) faithfully while they had GRRM's writings to draw off of. But as someone who has been waiting over 20 years to learn how this all ends, I can't help but be disappointed.

Not really disagreeing with you. But at the same time, could you explain an alternative ending that the reader's club would've accepted?

This was so damn dumb. Jorah would never approve of it since he's not a damn idiot. If you wanted that scene, at least build up to it by throwing out some sort of "the Dothraki are getting antsy, they're not used to waiting for their enemy." Something, otherwise it's just charging immediately into darkness.

As someone who didn't read the books and who doesn't get overly emotional about tv show plot details, I found that scene to be pretty great. For me, it was more about this great army of Dothraki men getting wiped out in a matter of seconds just a short while after Melisandre lights their swords in a brief moment of hope. The fear and discouragement in all the characters eyes after that happened set the scene, for me, that this was a losing battle and many would die.