Fatal shooting Charleston SC

[ACamp1900]

This dude has bought in to the racist mindset. He effective a whole community because of some disturbing beliefs. But our wonderful president has his own view smh.

spellcheekers isth wonderfully.

 

[woolybug25]

This dude has bought in to the racist mindset. He effective a whole community because of some disturbing beliefs. But our wonderful president has his own view smh.

What a bad post. Both grammatically and conceptually.

 

[notredomer23]

Would you suggest that he isn't a terrorist?

I think he was referencing how you took a back handed jab at half the board.

Fox news crowd? I was watching CNN this morning and they not once called him a terrorist. In fact, they kept mentioning mental illness and how his peers called him a kind, soft spoken kid. It's a media problem in general. Edit: saw you mentioned the media double standard.

9 murders and bomb threats= terrorist.

 

[Irish YJ]

Never would happen, but what I'd prefer to see, is the members of the church decide his fate.

IMO without emotion, the death penalty would, in general, bring more, and quicker closure to the situation.

IMO with emotion (not saying it's right), they should strap him down to a chair and light him up like a Christmas tree.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

IMO without emotion, the death penalty would, in general, bring more, and quicker closure to the situation.

The average inmate spends 16 years on death row prior to execution, and costs the system an extra $1 million to process. That money would be better spent on the victims' families, with Roof safely incapacitated for the rest of his natural life.

IMO with emotion (not saying it's right), they should strap him down to a chair and light him up like a Christmas tree.

How would that benefit anyone?

 

[fitz_bu47]

I am not a violent person. I think almost everyone deserves their day in court, in our system. I also think we have no idea, and never will understand what goes in to the actions of some people. I also believe there are a few things you can do on this planet that should be met w/ immediate expulsion from this planet. No need to waste time, or money on someone who does something like this. Bye bye. Just my opinion, and honestly it's an opinion that I don't like because it's not how I am w/ 99% of the world. I just can't quit thinking in scenarios like this what I would want if one of those innocent people was a family member or friend of mine. My mind then quickly goes to the fact that it doesn't matter I didn't know them, they were people killed for no reason except the hate inside of this kid.

Man, just awful. I'm all riled up just typing this. My thoughts and prayers are with all of the people touched closely by this horrific incident, and all of us in general. Scary world we live in.

 

[Cackalacky]

Garden and Gun-Holy City in Mourning

He is a nice article and video showing how awesome this city is. This vigil was coordinated by social media in a matter of hours.

 

[Irish YJ]

The average inmate spends 16 years on death row prior to execution, and costs the system an extra $1 million to process. That money would be better spent on the victims' families, with Roof safely incapacitated for the rest of his natural life.



How would that benefit anyone?

Whiskey, I'm fully respectful of your position (and sometimes in my heart I embrace it myself)..... And I'm in agreement to a lot of your points historically on this topic including the ones made in the Theology thread recently. That said, I was raised differently, interpret church history a bit differently (to some of the points also made in the Theology thread), do not have the benefit of your education on historical or theological matters, and apply my logical or illogical common sense (good or bad).

16 years, although long, is shorter than life for family members, or a community to receive closure (we could debate closure I guess). I do agree that the money however would be better spent in the community (you and I would probably agree that the community would never see that money). The chair comment,,,, I did notate with "emotional", and caveated that I in no means claim it the right thing to do. I do believe there are many folks, probably a majority of folks in that community, who have the same emotional response.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Whiskey, I'm fully respectful of your position (and sometimes in my heart I embrace it myself)..... And I'm in agreement to a lot of your points historically on this topic including the ones made in the Theology thread recently. That said, I was raised differently, interpret church history a bit differently (to some of the points also made in the Theology thread), do not have the benefit of your education on historical or theological matters, and apply my logical or illogical common sense (good or bad).

No need for the self-effacing explanation. I wouldn't have responded to your comment if it didn't have any merit.

The chair comment,,,, I did notate with "emotional", and caveated that I in no means claim it the right thing to do. I do believe there are many folks, probably a majority of folks in that community, who have the same emotional response.

This reaction is perfectly natural. But it's an artifact of our Christian heritage that we can step back from it and realize, "This isn't healthy for me." There are many cultures, especially within the Muslim world, where there is nothing counter-balancing the instinct for bloody vengeance, and the results aren't pretty.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Never would happen, but what I'd prefer to see, is the members of the church decide his fate.

I fully support this.

 

[Irish YJ]

No need for the self-effacing explanation. I wouldn't have responded to your comment if it didn't have any merit.



This reaction is perfectly natural. But it's an artifact of our Christian heritage that we can step back from it and realize, "This isn't healthy for me." There are many cultures, especially within the Muslim world, where there is nothing counter-balancing the instinct for bloody vengeance, and the results aren't pretty.

Just keeping it real on the first. On the second, agree. Also an artifact of the Italian community that I grew up in. A bit more Old Testament. But the Italian community, to your point, is a fruit our Christian heritage, but I think it also goes back a bit farther.

I fully support this.

I truly believe that they would make a far better decision than any court. I also think they are entitled to make that decision. I would also like to think they could teach the nation something by making the decision.

 

[wizards8507]

Would you suggest that he isn't a terrorist?

We can't know that until we learn more about his affiliations and motivations. I'm inclined to say he's a plain old mass murderer, not that that's somehow "better" than being a terrorist. But your allegation that the "Fox News crowd" uses race as a determining factor of what is or isn't terrorism is, frankly, bullshit. The Boston Marathon bombers were absolutely terrorists and they're not "brown people," as you so eloquently put it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

We can't know that until we learn more about his affiliations and motivations. I'm inclined to say he's a plain old mass murderer, not that that's somehow "better" than being a terrorist. But your allegation that the "Fox News crowd" uses race as a determining factor of what is or isn't terrorism is, frankly, bullshit. The Boston Marathon bombers were absolutely terrorists and they're not "brown people," as you so eloquently put it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

But they were Muslims. There seems to be a pattern that non-Muslims are characterized as lone wolves or mentally ill while Muslims are characterized as terrorists.

This guy was wearing pro - apartheid clothing in his Facebook profile pic and allegedly made comments to the effect of "you are raping our women." I agree that we should let it play out, but race seems to be a clear motivation.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Pulled from a short article I was reading on Yahoo.

He also said Roof’s parents, with whom he said the suspect was “on and off,” had previously bought him a gun but never allowed him to take it with him until this past week.

IF his parents were aware of any possible 'issues', or had knowledge of what he was capable of, they deserve to be tried right next to him.

 

[NDgradstudent]

But they were Muslims. There seems to be a pattern that non-Muslims are characterized as lone wolves or mentally ill while Muslims are characterized as terrorists.

This guy was wearing pro - apartheid clothing in his Facebook profile pic and allegedly made comments to the effect of "you are raping our women." I agree that we should let it play out, but race seems to be a clear motivation.

Call him a terrorist, then. The bigger issue is that the press observes extremely sensitive protocols when a perpetrator is black, but makes sure to inform you prodigiously when a perpetrator is white.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

https://youtu.be/2mSd5t2n3ck

 

[Cackalacky]

Pro-gun pastor tells Fox: ‘Hate crime’ means shooter is prejudiced against ‘biblical views’ — not race

In the latest skirmish of the FRAMING WARS, Fox News fired shots from their advancing line offering up the narrative this was about biblical views and not race.

Expecct a full frontal assault by the elite liberal left hoping to outflank Fox with liberal biased facts.


Mostly kidding here.

 

[ACamp1900]

They're all clowns and can all eat a bowl of fuckoff... People died, show respect

 

[Cackalacky]

As for the execution discussion, South Carolina rarely uses the death penalty. I believe there are maybe less than 40 people on death row and we have not executed anyone that I recall since 2011. It's possible he might get death row but it won't be expedient.

 

[ACamp1900]

I don't think there's a topic of discussion that's relevant to the nation that I've gone back and forth on tmore han the death penalty... It frazzles me...

 

[notredomer23]

I don't think there's a topic of discussion that's relevant to the nation that I've gone back and forth on tmore han the death penalty... It frazzles me...

Same. The death penalty as a deterrent to crime clearly has failed. It is also quite barbaric. And in some cases, it feels so justified.

IMO.

 

[GoIrish41]

Pro-gun pastor tells Fox: ‘Hate crime’ means shooter is prejudiced against ‘biblical views’ — not race

In the latest skirmish of the FRAMING WARS, Fox News fired shots from their advancing line offering up the narrative this was about biblical views and not race.

Expecct a full frontal assault by the elite liberal left hoping to outflank Fox with liberal biased facts.


Mostly kidding here.

Let the games begin!

 

[dshans]

In keeping with my penchant for bringing up music or songs under damn near any situation:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tqQ1SrCtifs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Wild Bill]

I don't think there's a topic of discussion that's relevant to the nation that I've gone back and forth on tmore han the death penalty... It frazzles me...

Same. I hate the thought of government taking lives but I hate the thought of scum like this taking another breathe. Tough one.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Same. The death penalty as a deterrent to crime clearly has failed. It is also quite barbaric. And in some cases, it feels so justified.

IMO.

Part of why it doesn't serve as a deterrent is that we've sanitized it to the point of absurdity by hiding it from public viewing and going from hanging and electrocution to the comparatively "nicer" lethal injection, and then worried that even that might be cruel because the needle stick hurts or the condemned might have felt a bit uncomfortable before succumbing. On top of that, with an average time of 16 years between sentencing and actual execution, there's little connection between the crime and its consequences.

Capital punishment is supposed to be gruesome, painful and scary as hell to the criminal being executed so that it serves as a warning and deterrent to others. When you sanitize it, make it painless, hide it from public view, and then delay it so long that it has no effective connection to the crime that it's punishment for, how do you expect it to have any deterrent effect?

Back in the day, they hung murderers and cattle rustlers in the town square and they did it not long after conviction. It wasn't pretty to see Ol' Joe up there terrified and begging for forgiveness and promising not to ever do it again, and it wasn't pretty to watch his neck snap, his legs twitch, and his bowels and bladder empty, but it damn sure convinced a lot of people that they probably didn't want to commit murder or steal any cattle and end up like Joe.

 

[GoIrish41]

Part of why it doesn't serve as a deterrent is that we've sanitized it to the point of absurdity by hiding it from public viewing and going from hanging and electrocution to the comparatively "nicer" lethal injection, and then worried that even that might be cruel because the needle stick hurts or the condemned might have felt a bit uncomfortable before succumbing. On top of that, with an average time of 16 years between sentencing and actual execution, there's little connection between the crime and its consequences.

Capital punishment is supposed to be gruesome, painful and scary as hell to the criminal being executed so that it serves as a warning and deterrent to others. When you sanitize it, make it painless, hide it from public view, and then delay it so long that it has no effective connection to the crime that it's punishment for, how do you expect it to have any deterrent effect?

Back in the day, they hung murderers and cattle rustlers in the town square and they did it not long after conviction. It wasn't pretty to see Ol' Joe up there terrified and begging for forgiveness and promising not to ever do it again, and it wasn't pretty to watch his neck snap, his legs twitch, and his bowels and bladder empty, but it damn sure convinced a lot of people that they probably didn't want to commit murder or steal any cattle and end up like Joe.

Well, we could have prisoners fight lions in a stadium if we really want to take a ride in the way back machine. I think the public spectacle is barbaric and I think society has recognized that. I am torn on capital punishment but not because I think it should be public but because it does not deter crime -- just like it did not deter crime in the old west.

 

[Bishop2b5]

In some Middle Eastern countries the punishment for theft is having your hand cut off. You don't even want to think about what happens to a rapist. Is it a gruesome, scary, barbaric thing? Yep. And guess what? The theft rate there is darn near zero. It's effective. I've seen a film of a thief having his hand cut off. Horrible thing to watch, but it made me realize I'd starve to death before I'd steal anything there. Which is worse, one or two such punishments per year and virtually no crime, or the way we do it where criminals have little fear of the consequences and thus thousands of people get robbed and suffer because of it? I lean towards feeling that as gruesome as cutting off a hand or executing someone is, it actually produces a lot less suffering and trouble overall.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I am torn on capital punishment but not because I think it should be public but because it does not deter crime -- just like it did not deter crime in the old west.

It didn't eliminate crime. It definitely did deter a lot of it.

 

[GoIrish41]

In some Middle Eastern countries the punishment for theft is having your hand cut off. You don't even want to think about what happens to a rapist. Is it a gruesome, scary, barbaric thing? Yep. And guess what? The theft rate there is darn near zero. It's effective. I've seen a film of a thief having his hand cut off. Horrible thing to watch, but it made me realize I'd starve to death before I'd steal anything there. Which is worse, one or two such punishments per year and virtually no crime, or the way we do it where criminals have little fear of the consequences and thus thousands of people get robbed and suffer because of it? I lean towards feeling that as gruesome as cutting off a hand or executing someone is, it actually produces a lot less suffering and trouble overall.

I thought Muslim extremism was bad. These are the types of brutal acts that desensitize people to violence and produce extremists. If you steal a loaf of bread to feed your kids, the government will public ally mutilate you. That does not seem humane or civilized and it is contrary to our values as a nation.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I thought Muslim extremism was bad. These are the types of brutal acts that desensitize people to violence and produce extremists. If you steal a loaf of bread to feed your kids, the government will public ally mutilate you. That does not seem humane or civilized and it is contrary to our values as a nation.

I agree that it isn't what most of us would consider civilized or in line with most of our culture's values. I was just making the point that it is effective though, and wondering which is actually smarter or more civilized: gruesome but effective punishment against an extremely small number or countless crimes against thousands?