BVG Fired

[TheChosen1]

The thing that is so crazy is that NW didn't even play well. They could've scored 60+ if they played mistake free football. They had drops, redzone turnovers, etc.

Giving up 500 yards and 40 points to NW is crazy in and of itself, but it's even crazier when you realize it could've been worse if they could execute basic football plays.

Kelly would bench BVG if he was a player.

 

[Irish Fam]

Yesterday's defensive performance was a joke.

But did we not expect a weak defense this year?

We lost a ton of talent/experience from our defense last year. We switched to an entirely new system. Basically nothing has been carried over from Diaco's to Van Gorder's scheme. On top of that, we have been losing critical players seemingly every game this year. From Ishaq, Russel, and Hardy, to the Collinsworth, Barratti, and Schmidt injuries, and then Day and Cage missing time yesterday, our poor defense is not necessarily a shock to me.

Frustrating? Yes. Surprising? No.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Yesterday's defensive performance was a joke.

But did we not expect a weak defense this year?

We lost a ton of talent/experience from our defense last year. We switched to an entirely new system. Basically nothing has been carried over from Diaco's to Van Gorder's scheme. On top of that, we have been losing critical players seemingly every game this year. From Ishaq, Russel, and Hardy, to the Collinsworth, Barratti, and Schmidt injuries, and then Day and Cage missing time yesterday, our poor defense is not necessarily a shock to me.

Frustrating? Yes. Surprising? No.

Problem I have is that, given the injuries and inexperience, BVG should adjust his scheme to the abilities and knowledge of the players. We kept blitzing mindlessly. Never mind the blown coverages...we were determined to get to the QB. On NW's initial drive in the second half, Luke had to cover two WRs as Tranquil blitzed....which resulted in another big play. Is BVG a one trick pony?

In the end, our coaches showed no respect to NW and their gameplan and adjustments reflected that.

 

[Irish Fam]

I would definitely agree with the gripe about BVG not adjusting to personnel.

Nothing is more frustrating than a coach being stubborn about his scheme despite the lack of players for it.

Watching Northwestern receivers run free through our secondary has me very uncomfortable with our next two games, especially USC and their explosive skill position players.

 

[IrishLax]

I would definitely agree with the gripe about BVG not adjusting to personnel.

Nothing is more frustrating than a coach being stubborn about his scheme despite the lack of players for it.

Watching Northwestern receivers run free through our secondary has me very uncomfortable with our next two games, especially USC and their explosive skill position players.

lol yup... and Louisville has a 1st round talent at WR too... and we couldn't even cover terrible skill position players with a terrible QB throwing to them.

There are no playmakers on this defense right now. Smith has been taken out of the game, and Cole Luke is effective. No other players are playing above a MAC level right now. It's pathetic.

 

[enrico514]

You guys need to get a grip. You loved him at the beginning of the season and now he's a bum. He' not perfect but lets not forget that he's missing a shitload of starters.

 

[IrishLax]

Also, the problem on this team isn't 3-stars playing like 3-stars... it's 5-stars playing like 3-stars.

Max Redfield. Top safety recruit. No impact.
Elijah Shumate. #2 composite safety. No Impact.
Greg Bryant. 5-star. No impact.
Jaylon Smith. Meh. Pretty good, no impact since beginning of the season though.

And on and on. All of the "great recruits" aren't playing like it.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

I would definitely agree with the gripe about BVG not adjusting to personnel.

Nothing is more frustrating than a coach being stubborn about his scheme despite the lack of players for it.

Watching Northwestern receivers run free through our secondary has me very uncomfortable with our next two games, especially USC and their explosive skill position players.

I think BVG initial success is similar to a pitcher going through a batting lineup for the first time. The second time around the batters have a better gauge of what is coming at them. I think there is enough tape of BVG's scheme to spot holes...and the past few games have revealed there are a lot of holes. It will be interesting how the D plays against two decent offenses.

As poorly as the D has played, I still find the offense more culpable for these two losses.

 

[ulukinatme]

Bvg is unacceptable as is Kelly. Time for change.

Yup, clearly Kelly needs to go, there are better coaches out there we can snag. 71% winning percentage is unacceptable!

 

[gkIrish]

Yup, clearly Kelly needs to go, there are better coaches out there we can snag. 71% winning percentage is unacceptable!

Obviously I don't want BK fired but 71% isn't exactly something to be overly proud of. Lloyd Carr was over 75% in his career at Michigan and they ran him out of town, for example.

 

[irishff1014]

Obviously I don't want BK fired but 71% isn't exactly something to be overly proud of. Lloyd Carr was over 75% in his career at Michigan and they ran him out of town, for example.

I don't want him fire either.

I am not trying to put you on the spot but who would you want to come in?

 

[Ndaccountant]

Also, the problem on this team isn't 3-stars playing like 3-stars... it's 5-stars playing like 3-stars.

Max Redfield. Top safety recruit. No impact.
Elijah Shumate. #2 composite safety. No Impact.
Greg Bryant. 5-star. No impact.
Jaylon Smith. Meh. Pretty good, no impact since beginning of the season though.

And on and on. All of the "great recruits" aren't playing like it.

I usually agree with you on everything, but the Jaylon comment is probably unfair. He is the only player outside of Day that the offense has to plan for and now that people now where to attack this defense, it's very easy to take him out of the game. That isn't his fault and he isn't playing like a 3 star.

NW basically attacked the same players on each play and there was nothing VG could do. The players were Morgan, Farley, Shumate, Drue & Butler. They challenged the ability of Morgan and the safeties to run sideline to sideline and it worked since mentally the guys were still diagnosing the plays. Morgan was out of position all game and NW ate him up. The sad part is, if ND had any DL to speak of, it wouldn't have mattered. But the lack of play makers up front killing this team, whether it is lack of passing pressure or inability to stop the run consistently when there is a passing threat in the flats. Lack of pressure, inexperienced CB's (Butler) and cover challenged DB's (Farley) get exposed.

 

[gkIrish]

I don't want him fire either.

I am not trying to put you on the spot but who would you want to come in?

I can't think of any coaches that would come here that would be a better option than BK considering we would have to start the program over.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Also, the problem on this team isn't 3-stars playing like 3-stars... it's 5-stars playing like 3-stars.

Max Redfield. Top safety recruit. No impact.
Elijah Shumate. #2 composite safety. No Impact.
Greg Bryant. 5-star. No impact.
Jaylon Smith. Meh. Pretty good, no impact since beginning of the season though.

And on and on. All of the "great recruits" aren't playing like it.

I think that the whole coaching staff has a little bit of 'paralysis by analysis'. Why BVG continues to play games with other teams is beyond me. Just chill for a minute and see how the game flows. Same goes for Kelly. I think thats one of the reasons are big recruits are under performing because they are locked into a "scheme". Just play f'ing football. If the running game is working run it. if the blitz is working blitz. But this mind set of "this is what we do, im not changing" blows my mind.

 

[ulukinatme]

Obviously I don't want BK fired but 71% isn't exactly something to be overly proud of. Lloyd Carr was over 75% in his career at Michigan and they ran him out of town, for example.

You know some scUM fans want Lloyd to come back to coaching, right? 71% isn't Saban level, but consider that Lou was .75 in his career and .710 doesn't look so bad given how we've hamstrung ourselves since Lou was here. Davie had a .583 winning percentage, as did Ty, and Charlie had .565.

A few more wins and a national championship will net Kelly a statue out front.

 

[T Town Tommy]

VTech is not the SEC, nor is Texas...neither have ties to the SEC except Muschamp coaches FL.

If we, some how some way, could get Muschamp as D Coordinator...yes please.

Keep hearing Muschamp to S. Carolina as DC. Don't know if true but the OBC needs him a better DC than he currently has. We will see I guess.

The strange thing with BVG is that when at Ga, it took that Bulldog team half the season to figure his defense out. But when they did they were dynamic and a top 5 defense. The Irish starts out like they have played his defense forever, but then regresses as the season goes on. Yes... some depth, suspensions, injuries, etc happened. But without looking it up, I bet Ga had the same thing during his time there. Also, I would think Ga had a much better pass rush during his time there. A good pass rush does take a lot of pressure off the rest of the defense. I will stop rambling now.

 

[gkIrish]

You know some scUM fans want Lloyd to come back to coaching, right? 71% isn't Saban level, but consider that Lou was .75 in his career and .710 doesn't look so bad given how we've hamstrung ourselves since Lou was here. Davie had a .583 winning percentage, as did Ty, and Charlie had .565.

A few more wins and a national championship will net Kelly a statue out front.

In Lou's 11 seasons with Notre Dame, he only had 3 seasons with 4 or more losses. Kelly already has that many (and soon to be 4) in 5 seasons. Lou also had a 5-6 first season. Otherwise he would be at 78%.

 

[Irish Fam]

Just out of curiosity, what type of defensive scheme would you prefer we ran, given our current personnel?

We have/had ONE consistently strong defensive lineman (Day).

We have ONE talented/athletic/experienced linebacker (Jaylon).

And we have maybe? ONE reliable defensive back (Luke).

The rest are consistent question marks. Sure Jarron can rip through the line and make a big play, but he can also disappear for three quarters. Farley may make a good, experienced play from the nickel position, but he is just as likely to get burnt by an athletic slot receiver or running back. And the safeties are all injured or very inexperienced and underperforming.

I have said this before, and I am comfortable sticking by it: Van Gorder's scheme is not crazy. If anything, it fits perfectly with what we have, a lot of young, athletic, talented (im not ready to write off Redfield, Rochell, Butler, Morgan, Trumbetti, etc.) players who can flash and make a big play. Why not let them loose rather than constrict them to a Diaco-esque scheme of bringing 4-5 guys and letting the offense chip away at a "keep everything in front of you" defense.

I welcome other viewpoints as I am in no way an expert. But I cannot help but remember watching that Diaco defense, which had some significant talent, gifting 5-7 yards a play against some mediocre competition.

 

[ulukinatme]

In Lou's 11 seasons with Notre Dame, he only had 3 seasons with 4 or more losses. Kelly already has that many (and soon to be 4) in 5 seasons. Lou also had a 5-6 first season. Otherwise he would be at 78%.

True, but many of the players that played for Lou in the good years wouldn't even make it through admissions now. If Kelly had what Lou had to work with, I think he wouldn't lose as many of the occasional head scratcher match ups and he maybe beats FSU. There's also the fact that Kelly plays more games each season than Lou did. Lou only had 13 game seasons twice, along with some 11 game seasons mixed in there.
I love Lou, he's in my avatar of course, but it was easier I think for Lou to have his success when he did than what Kelly has to work with. If Kelly had come in when Lou did, I bet they have similar records.

 

[Irish#1]

True, but many of the players that played for Lou in the good years wouldn't even make it through admissions now. If Kelly had what Lou had to work with, I think he wouldn't lose as many of the occasional head scratcher match ups and he maybe beats FSU. There's also the fact that Kelly plays more games each season than Lou did. Lou only had 13 game seasons twice, along with some 11 game seasons mixed in there.
I love Lou, he's in my avatar of course, but it was easier I think for Lou to have his success when he did than what Kelly has to work with. If Kelly had come in when Lou did, I bet they have similar records.

I might be wrong and I know Lou had some leeway, but not as much as some think. I think BK has about the same leeway except for a couple of Prop 13 type players.

 

[gkIrish]

True, but many of the players that played for Lou in the good years wouldn't even make it through admissions now. If Kelly had what Lou had to work with, I think he wouldn't lose as many of the occasional head scratcher match ups and he maybe beats FSU. There's also the fact that Kelly plays more games each season than Lou did. Lou only had 13 game seasons twice, along with some 11 game seasons mixed in there.
I love Lou, he's in my avatar of course, but it was easier I think for Lou to have his success when he did than what Kelly has to work with. If Kelly had come in when Lou did, I bet they have similar records.

Your points are valid but I think you're starting to approach "BK is as good of a coach as Lou" territory with your rhetoric. And I don't think that's remotely true.

 

[ulukinatme]

Your points are valid but I think you're starting to approach "BK is as good of a coach as Lou" territory with your rhetoric. And I don't think that's remotely true.

No, that's definitely not the case. I think BK is a good coach, and probably the best we can do given CFB's current roster of coaches and our stiff requirements. Getting rid of him at this point would be awful for the program because it's highly unlikely we get anyone on par. That was mostly my point, refuting what someone else said earlier that we should get rid of BK...which is laughable.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Just out of curiosity, what type of defensive scheme would you prefer we ran, given our current personnel?

We have/had ONE consistently strong defensive lineman (Day).

We have ONE talented/athletic/experienced linebacker (Jaylon).

And we have maybe? ONE reliable defensive back (Luke).

The rest are consistent question marks. Sure Jarron can rip through the line and make a big play, but he can also disappear for three quarters. Farley may make a good, experienced play from the nickel position, but he is just as likely to get burnt by an athletic slot receiver or running back. And the safeties are all injured or very inexperienced and underperforming.

I have said this before, and I am comfortable sticking by it: Van Gorder's scheme is not crazy. If anything, it fits perfectly with what we have, a lot of young, athletic, talented (im not ready to write off Redfield, Rochell, Butler, Morgan, Trumbetti, etc.) players who can flash and make a big play. Why not let them loose rather than constrict them to a Diaco-esque scheme of bringing 4-5 guys and letting the offense chip away at a "keep everything in front of you" defense.

I welcome other viewpoints as I am in no way an expert. But I cannot help but remember watching that Diaco defense, which had some significant talent, gifting 5-7 yards a play against some mediocre competition.

In theory, you're right, but in practice we're playing a scheme that doesn't cause big defensive plays and doesn't prevent big offensive ones and gives up a ton in the middle. Our corners desperately need more safety help. As Lax pointed out, NW was a couple of dropped balls away from hanging 60 on us on Saturday. It would be a different story if our blitzes were actually generating pressure, but once teams got enough film on us (post-Stanford) they seem to have had no trouble making adjustments.

I would rather see this team play an incredibly simplified cover-2 or man cover-2 defense at this point. I think they actually dialed back on the blitzes a lot in the second half and played much better over all on Saturday.

 

[BigIrish]

I would remind everyone that Lou coached option football at ND. It's been almost 2 decades since his final season, and 3 decades since he came to ND. The game has changed since then. It's useless to compare BK to Holtz.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm no expert on newfangled advanced statistics, but it looks like our defense really isn't that bad, 21st in the country based on DFEI. Conversely, our offense is ranked 31st. This seems to confirm my suspicions that the defense has looked inordinately terrible due to turnovers and poor starting field position.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2014 FEI COLLEGE FOOTBALL RATINGS, OFFENSE
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2014 FEI COLLEGE FOOTBALL RATINGS, DEFENSE

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm no expert on newfangled advanced statistics, but it looks like our defense really isn't that bad, 21st in the country based on DFEI. Conversely, our offense is ranked 31st. This seems to confirm my suspicions that the defense has looked inordinately terrible due to turnovers and poor starting field position.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2014 FEI COLLEGE FOOTBALL RATINGS, OFFENSE
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2014 FEI COLLEGE FOOTBALL RATINGS, DEFENSE

Normally I'd hear you out, but this week statistics can suck a d**k. We gave up 43 points to Northwestern off one turnover and a botched extra point. The defense is circling the drain of absolute suckatude.

 

[tko]

Prevent defense? How about... BLITZ IN THE FACE

Fucking love this guy!

love this post from "back in the day" i wanted him as our head coach then as well.

 

[IrishLax]

love this post from "back in the day" i wanted him as our head coach then as well.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

 

[tko]

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Love it Lax. I hope year two brings much more success. We need to get back to fearing the stache.

 

[wizards8507]

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Awesome quote from an awesome movie that was rendered completely hollow when the idiots at Warner Brothers decided that Bruce Wayne could have somehow survived a nuclear explosion at the end of Dark Knight Rises. [Frick] you, Christopher Nolan, [frick] you. Of all the idiot mistakes in that movie, Bruce not dying at the end has to be the worst.