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Breaking: Boston Marathon Explosion
- Thread starter BleedBlueGold
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Bogtrotter07
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In my experience, people who repeatedly say things intimating that the world has taken a radical turn, are showing their age.
However there has been a major switch. World War II put a lot of money in a lot of peoples pockets. It built a supercharged middle class. It reduced poverty. Not enough, it still remained, especially along lines of color.
The lie is that entitlement programs somehow turned a poorer class into rabble-rousers. That couldn't be further from the truth. The wealth created by the WWII lasted so long that the "middle classes", and I include most of what people like to call "upper middle class," actually are the ones that thought they were entitled.
With Viet Nam, they stopped sending their sons, and started "hiring" others to fight their wars. Social responsibility was reduce to limited ecological awareness and clothing drives. Nobody bothered to look what was going on around the world, the sheer butchery even in the past twenty-something years is unbelievable. But it has been kept localized; out of the United States. Since the Soviets are gone we need a new enemy. But that is another story.
What is being discussed in this thread lately is a real concern. People die in Boston, the country wants to kick some other country or organization's a$$; a whole school full of children get blown apart and nobody gives a good godammn. The change that you mention is the radicalization of us all. And with a buy into dogma at any level, as always, conceptualizations of reality become over simplified. So they can fit into nice neat packages. And that is what most scares me.
That more and more individuals take on the cloak of righteousness, and stay in the shadows of impersonalization. Those among us are fostered by staying unengaged from anything that will provide a solution. They are bolstered by the mental illness that is all around us, and at the same time we go off tromping for the bad guy organization that doesn't really exist, because we fail to see that with all of our attitudes, we are the bad guys.
However there has been a major switch. World War II put a lot of money in a lot of peoples pockets. It built a supercharged middle class. It reduced poverty. Not enough, it still remained, especially along lines of color.
The lie is that entitlement programs somehow turned a poorer class into rabble-rousers. That couldn't be further from the truth. The wealth created by the WWII lasted so long that the "middle classes", and I include most of what people like to call "upper middle class," actually are the ones that thought they were entitled.
With Viet Nam, they stopped sending their sons, and started "hiring" others to fight their wars. Social responsibility was reduce to limited ecological awareness and clothing drives. Nobody bothered to look what was going on around the world, the sheer butchery even in the past twenty-something years is unbelievable. But it has been kept localized; out of the United States. Since the Soviets are gone we need a new enemy. But that is another story.
What is being discussed in this thread lately is a real concern. People die in Boston, the country wants to kick some other country or organization's a$$; a whole school full of children get blown apart and nobody gives a good godammn. The change that you mention is the radicalization of us all. And with a buy into dogma at any level, as always, conceptualizations of reality become over simplified. So they can fit into nice neat packages. And that is what most scares me.
That more and more individuals take on the cloak of righteousness, and stay in the shadows of impersonalization. Those among us are fostered by staying unengaged from anything that will provide a solution. They are bolstered by the mental illness that is all around us, and at the same time we go off tromping for the bad guy organization that doesn't really exist, because we fail to see that with all of our attitudes, we are the bad guys.
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Emcee77
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I could not agree more with this. It's one thing to feel like you are doing or saying something totally inoffensive to which people are taking offense; I understand being frustrated by that because then it seems like you are being asked to condone craziness.
But if you know that something offends someone, and if you understand why, why would you still want to do it? That's just not courteous, gentlemanly behavior. It's not like playing Shipping Off to Boston is an absolute necessity. What do you really lose by playing something else?
If I have a choice between two courses of action, either
A) doing exactly what I want even though it greatly offends and upsets someone, or
B) doing something that may not be EXACTLY what I would do in a perfect world, but is a close substitute, that offends no one,
I'm picking B every time. I just don't understand why so many people seem to want to pick A because they think picking B is giving in to "political correctness." No it's not; it's just being courteous.
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BleedBlueGold
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Didn't they play that song during the NFL draft?
And yes, 3 more people in custody. Irishpat with 'I told you so' in 3,2,1...
And yes, 3 more people in custody. Irishpat with 'I told you so' in 3,2,1...
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Bogtrotter07
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There is no "I told you so." These are three college student friends of the younger one that helped him after the attack. I will bet that all the crimes they are charged with end in "after the fact", which makes the point of everybody I have talked to with an intelligent opinion. There is an upswelling of the disenfranchised, and with our media washing over the way things really are, we don't, maybe can't, even see it!
IrishinTN
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But aren't people who helped this guy after the fact, knowing full well what he did and who got hurt, pretty despicable? I personally am pretty outraged that anyone would help this guy at all.
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Bogtrotter07
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Yes, exactly!
But I think some of what some of us were angling for is (and Pat never did this) was that those who tried to draw attention to themselves or their cause claiming there was a big conspiracy before the fact, are still all a bunch of a$$hats.
phgreek
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Even if you arrest someone for conduct after the fact, it doesn't mean they weren't engaged earlier on...IN FACT, if I had to guess, people who aid after the fact do so because they are vested in some way....beyond being pals.
If it turns out these folks were indeed after the fact participants only...well then thats what they'll be charged with, but I would suggest the investigation into these folks has heated up based on the after the fact tie which may or may not lead to other participation.
If it turns out these folks were indeed after the fact participants only...well then thats what they'll be charged with, but I would suggest the investigation into these folks has heated up based on the after the fact tie which may or may not lead to other participation.
phgreek
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...and to those who thought this would end in a death sentence...think again.
Judy Clarke joined the defense team...which means the trajectory is likely life in prison plea deal.
so after this is all over, the message is likely to be...if you engage in bombing innocent people on American Soil, somewhere between 3 and 168 deaths is the line where we'll "kill ya back".
Not a death penalty zealot one way or the other...but if you can't bring this case, you need to remove the death penalty as an option all together.
Judy Clarke joined the defense team...which means the trajectory is likely life in prison plea deal.
so after this is all over, the message is likely to be...if you engage in bombing innocent people on American Soil, somewhere between 3 and 168 deaths is the line where we'll "kill ya back".
Not a death penalty zealot one way or the other...but if you can't bring this case, you need to remove the death penalty as an option all together.
IrishJayhawk
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I'm pretty much in favor of that line.
phgreek
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we'd likely have to move over to "just out of curiosity" the catchall politics debate thread, to have that discussion. Likely my rationale will/would be different than yours...but I may well end up in the same place someday.
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Bogtrotter07
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Judy Clarke is one of my hero's:
1) She does what she believes in;
2) She regularly forsakes money to maintain her principles;
3) She obviously gets treated worse by her clients that she does the most for, than by anyone else, (punched, kicked, screamed at, spit upon, etc.)
PH I love you, but mark this as a watershed day. With Martin Luther, dissidents got some information, the printed word; with Martin Luther King the dissidents and disenfranchised got the vote; today any crazy can assemble a mass killing machine and not have to look anybody in the eye. The first two were revolutions that the powers to be fought to repress. Today, this one is catastrophic. It is no longer a revolution. It is chaos. And how are the powers that be combating it? Trying to draw Jihadist connections like motherfukkers! It ain't there, andn things are going to get worse unless we all band together and make some meaningful changes!
1) She does what she believes in;
2) She regularly forsakes money to maintain her principles;
3) She obviously gets treated worse by her clients that she does the most for, than by anyone else, (punched, kicked, screamed at, spit upon, etc.)
PH I love you, but mark this as a watershed day. With Martin Luther, dissidents got some information, the printed word; with Martin Luther King the dissidents and disenfranchised got the vote; today any crazy can assemble a mass killing machine and not have to look anybody in the eye. The first two were revolutions that the powers to be fought to repress. Today, this one is catastrophic. It is no longer a revolution. It is chaos. And how are the powers that be combating it? Trying to draw Jihadist connections like motherfukkers! It ain't there, andn things are going to get worse unless we all band together and make some meaningful changes!
IrishJayhawk
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Fair enough.
phgreek
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She has a track record of working out deals that avoid judgment by peers in the cases I believe most need that. I can acknowledge the workings of the system which allow for her...not her fault. I agree, Ms. Clarke has a belief system. I respect that.
But I also think her practice has morphed into a form of systematic usurpation of the people to ultimately judge. That outcome of her beliefs I do not respect.
As for Martin Luther and Martin Luther King...follow ya. After that you lost me. The younger bomber indeed said this was a response to how America has treated Iraq and Afghanistan...if not Jihad, you pick the word/label to describe it...If Jihad is inaccurate because he was a US citizen, call him a domestic terrorist...but do keep in mind HE made the logical Jihad connection himself.
What meaningful changes avoid a whack job from small town USA, or from a foreign land from perpetrating this...certain death comes to my mind. We had the fortitude to do it with Mcveigh...why is this different?
Rhode Irish
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I thought this was a pretty interesting read, and well worth the time. This is the story of the missing Brown student who was initially identified as the marathon bomber, and who was shortly thereafter found dead in the Providence River.
Should Reddit Be Blamed for Spreading a Smear?
Should Reddit Be Blamed for Spreading a Smear?
NDBoiler
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A great inspirational story. I had a hard time thinking about the children involved especially.
Boston bombing victims learning to run again
Boston bombing victims learning to run again
connor_in
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Doesn't surprise me given the impact of his actions.
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Setting moral arguments aside, martyring Tsarnaev is a bad idea for lots of pragmatic reasons, too.
wizards8507
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Sad to see death followed by more death and then celebrated.
woolybug25
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I agree. They gave him exactly what he wanted instead of a lifetime of punishment.
I find it hard to believe that inmates would have made his life easy. He deserved a slow, painful life of agony. Not a quick, and high profile, martyrdom. I'm sure radicals will see this as a win against the western world.
Just my opinion...
ive been against the death penalty primarily due to all the wrongful convictions that have been documented over the years and not for any moral reason.
zero doubt this guy is and was guilty as charged and as such have zero problem with the sentence.
not buying the martyr bit either there's enough people who want to do exactly what he did regardless of whether he dies or not.
zero doubt this guy is and was guilty as charged and as such have zero problem with the sentence.
not buying the martyr bit either there's enough people who want to do exactly what he did regardless of whether he dies or not.
NDgradstudent
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What makes you think that he wants death? If he doesn't drop his appeals, he probably does not want death. I regularly hear opponents of capital punishment say that that life in prison is worse than execution, but very few capital offenders willingly drop their appeals in order to get executed, so they do not seem to think it is worse.
pkt77242
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Quick? Not very likely unless he doesn't appeal, which seems rather unlikely.
I am generally not a fan of the death penalty but I do feel that in a very small percentage of cases it is appropriate (such as this case, Timothy McVeigh, Dahmer, Gacy, Bundy, etc).