Baylor IS in some deep trouble

[Irish YJ]

Wow

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/4gg4wr/comprehensive_baylor_timeline_covering/

triple wow. holy cow

Waco PD report details domestic violence incident involving Baylor’s Shawn Oakman in 2013 – CollegeFootballTalk

180 days, you have to be kidding me...

 

[dublinirish]

from r/cfb a timeline of the incidents @ Baylor

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/4gg4wr/comprehensive_baylor_timeline_covering/

 

[NDRock]

Wait a second. Ken Starr, who spent millions of dollars of taxpayer money to find out our President got some blow jobs is now the President of Rape U? Wow, that's great.

 

[NDty9]

triple wow. holy cow



180 days, you have to be kidding me...

My god !!!... this has to be a joke. Even some of their fans are saying they don't know how Art is still their coach.

 

[Irish#1]

"Victim is told that it is her responsibility to alter class schedules to avoid Ukwuachu."


What a ridiculous statement. It shouldn't be her responsibility, but you know if she asked to see his schedule they would refuse citing privacy issues.

Briles will simply state these are school matters to be handled by the school and not him, yet he has a history of bringing in the wrong kids.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Wait a second. Ken Starr, who spent millions of dollars of taxpayer money to find out our President got some blow jobs is now the President of Rape U? Wow, that's great.

Maybe the best post ever.

My god !!!... this has to be a joke. Even some of their fans are saying they don't know how Art is still their coach.

After this the question shouldn't be whether Art is the coach, but if Baylor even is allowed to have a team, or if it remains a university. (Seriously.)

 

[ACamp1900]

At least they're consistent

 

[Bogtrotter07]

"Victim is told that it is her responsibility to alter class schedules to avoid Ukwuachu."


What a ridiculous statement. It shouldn't be her responsibility, but you know if she asked to see his schedule they would refuse citing privacy issues.

Briles will simply state these are school matters to be handled by the school and not him, yet he has a history of bringing in the wrong kids.

This may be the best reason to disenfranchise the university of wacko. This is proof that the entire university is incapable of running a safe/functional environment for students. This is institutional malfeasance at its most basic.

One statement like this, and the entirety of Ken Starr's involvement, actions, and statements is proof of the gross incapability this institution has in meeting the basic terms of its charter. Disassemble the place.I would say the same thing of anyplace, with a quarter the shenanigans of Baylor this go-round, even Notre Dame.

 

[IrishLion]

This may be the best reason to disenfranchise the university of wacko. This is proof that the entire university is incapable of running a safe/functional environment for students. This is institutional malfeasance at its most basic.

One statement like this, and the entirety of Ken Starr's involvement, actions, and statements is proof of the gross incapability this institution has in meeting the basic terms of its charter. Disassemble the place.I would say the same thing of anyplace, with a quarter the shenanigans of Baylor this go-round, even Notre Dame.

Unfortunately, that statement is more common than you would think it should be.

At an institution that I'm familiar with, I've heard of several cases where a victim of assault was told that they would need to alter their schedule, since they were the party initiating the process, rather than the institution removing/rescheduling the guilty party.

It's also common that victims are persuaded to not move forward with criminal proceedings by being offered free tuition, room, board, textbooks and stipends, under the condition that the guilty party is allowed to remain in school. Some victims take this offer, while others move forward with criminal proceedings, which then usually results in settlements that no one ever hears about.

It is passed off as giving "Everyone a chance at a fresh start," but really it's because the institutions want as few "sexual assault" data points as possible in the eyes of the state government.

 

[Irish#1]

Unfortunately, that statement is more common than you would think it should be.

At an institution that I'm familiar with, I've heard of several cases where a victim of assault was told that they would need to alter their schedule, since they were the party initiating the process, rather than the institution removing/rescheduling the guilty party.

It's also common that victims are persuaded to not move forward with criminal proceedings by being offered free tuition, room, board, textbooks and stipends, under the condition that the guilty party is allowed to remain in school. Some victims take this offer, while others move forward with criminal proceedings, which then usually results in settlements that no one ever hears about.

It is passed off as giving "Everyone a chance at a fresh start," but really it's because the institutions wants as few "sexual assault" data points as possible in the eyes of the state government.

It goes on all over the place. These schools will do anything to keep something like this out of the press.

 

[ulukinatme]

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The devil will come and try to strip you of everything you worked for</p>— Shawn Oakman (@PA2BU) <a href="https://twitter.com/PA2BU/status/716643027180064768">April 3, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Makes sense. He's the devil, and he's stripped himself of everything he's worked for. Deep message.

 

[phgreek]

Wait a second. Ken Starr, who spent millions of dollars of taxpayer money to find out our President got some blow jobs is now the President of Rape U? Wow, that's great.

... our president engaged in conduct with basically a teenager that would get ANYONE FIRED, and as is the Clinton way attacked the victim AND anyone who tried to help her...and ya know, he could have chosen to be honest to avoid the millions you crow about...but yea, lets put that on Star, who is clearly a bad administrator/executive, but seems like he did his job regarding Clinton...he just refused to be bullied.

I hope you don't have daughters because your politics makes you see shit in ways that is harmful to women, which is ironic given the topic you chimed in on.

 

[phgreek]

Unfortunately, that statement is more common than you would think it should be.

At an institution that I'm familiar with, I've heard of several cases where a victim of assault was told that they would need to alter their schedule, since they were the party initiating the process, rather than the institution removing/rescheduling the guilty party.

It's also common that victims are persuaded to not move forward with criminal proceedings by being offered free tuition, room, board, textbooks and stipends, under the condition that the guilty party is allowed to remain in school. Some victims take this offer, while others move forward with criminal proceedings, which then usually results in settlements that no one ever hears about.

It is passed off as giving "Everyone a chance at a fresh start," but really it's because the institutions want as few "sexual assault" data points as possible in the eyes of the state government.

In cases where a determination is made regarding guilt...there is no excuse for doing this to a victim. In cases where there are accusations and pending investigations...how would you advise a school proceed? I seriously have a hard time with this...not sure there is a right answer.

 

[IrishLion]

In cases where a determination is made regarding guilt...there is no excuse for doing this to a victim. In cases where there are accusations and pending investigations...how would you advise a school proceed? I seriously have a hard time with this...not sure there is a right answer.

That's the problem. The institution initiates all of their "protocols" before guilt is even close to being determined in the first place. So if a female with a legitimate case comes forward, campus PD says they have to work in conjunction with the university. The university then offers the victim everything they can to try and keep it from becoming a criminal case, and campus PD sits on any investigation until they are given their orders.

The university doesn't care about whether it happened or not. The university cares about that case becoming a data point. Their first action isn't to determine guilt, it's to protect their own interests, which often (most of the time? nearly always?) leaves the victim on the short end of justice.

 

[NDRock]

... our president engaged in conduct with basically a teenager that would get ANYONE FIRED, and as is the Clinton way attacked the victim AND anyone who tried to help her...and ya know, he could have chosen to be honest to avoid the millions you crow about...but yea, lets put that on Star, who is clearly a bad administrator/executive, but seems like he did his job regarding Clinton...he just refused to be bullied.

I hope you don't have daughters because your politics makes you see shit in ways that is harmful to women, which is ironic given the topic you chimed in on.

Great post. I love how you make assumptions on my politics from the post I made. I guess because I didn't automatically call Clinton the anti-Christ I must be some crazy liberal. Send me your contact info so you can talk to my daughter as she obviously needs a better male role model. Douche.

I jsut find it crazy that the lead investigator of the most famous case of sexual impropriety is now the President of a school whose football team racks up more sexual assault charges than yards. At a Christian University no less. Even some of their own fans think it is crazy and Briles should be gone.

 

[ND NYC]

Briles and Starr need to go...

 

[Bogtrotter07]

... our president engaged in conduct with basically a teenager that would get ANYONE FIRED, and as is the Clinton way attacked the victim AND anyone who tried to help her...and ya know, he could have chosen to be honest to avoid the millions you crow about...but yea, lets put that on Star, who is clearly a bad administrator/executive, but seems like he did his job regarding Clinton...he just refused to be bullied.

I hope you don't have daughters because your politics makes you see shit in ways that is harmful to women, which is ironic given the topic you chimed in on.

Are you talking about Monica Lewinsky?

Monica Samille Lewinsky (born July 23, 1973) is a former White House intern with whom President Bill Clinton admitted to having had what he called an "inappropriate relationship" while she worked at the White House in 1995 and 1996. The affair and its repercussions, which included Clinton's impeachment, became known as the Lewinsky scandal.

As a result of the scandal, Lewinsky gained worldwide celebrity status; she subsequently engaged in a variety of ventures including designing a line of handbags under her name, being an advertising spokesperson for a diet plan, working as a television personality, and then leaving the public spotlight to pursue a master's degree in psychology in London. She was also publicly ridiculed on the Internet for the scandal. In 2014, she returned to public view as a social activist, discussing the scandal's effects and speaking out against cyberbullying.

She was between 22 and 24 when the best Republican President since Eisenhower had his fling with her. (Yes I said that about Slick Willie. That is why he is so slick, beyond all else he is a Republican in Democrats' clothing. I suppose it amounts to the same thing, [wolf in sheep's clothing!])

Almost all politicians suck, (literally, I suppose, too.)

The only reason I didn't want him impeached and convicted, is because if we weren't going to be hypocritical about it, most of the government would have had to resign following the same guidelines.

And, not making the distinction of Kenneth Starr, leading the upright moral charge then, (for an act that was not illegal, though was thoroughly unethical, makes me wonder if we have the discrimination to properly have this conversation now.

In my mind there is no set of circumstances that allow Kenneth Starr to prosecute William Jefferson, and defend Baylor, period. It is the darkest of mental ill health and general bull shit on display, in this man's specific actions.

And yes, I have four daughters. God help anyone that drivels any institutional, fresh start, or Kenneth Starr bull shit to any of them if they are abused in any way.

 

[phgreek]

That's the problem. The institution initiates all of their "protocols" before guilt is even close to being determined in the first place. So if a female with a legitimate case comes forward, campus PD says they have to work in conjunction with the university. The university then offers the victim everything they can to try and keep it from becoming a criminal case, and campus PD sits on any investigation until they are given their orders.

The university doesn't care about whether it happened or not. The university cares about that case becoming a data point. Their first action isn't to determine guilt, it's to protect their own interests, which often (most of the time? nearly always?) leaves the victim on the short end of justice.

I got ya...your point is universities are using the time they should be investigating to obfuscate and avoid...I can see that here for sure.

 

[phgreek]

Are you talking about Monica Lewinsky?



She was between 22 and 24 when the best Republican President since Eisenhower had his fling with her. (Yes I said that about Slick Willie. That is why he is so slick, beyond all else he is a Republican in Democrats' clothing. I suppose it amounts to the same thing, [wolf in sheep's clothing!])

Almost all politicians suck, (literally, I suppose, too.)

The only reason I didn't want him impeached and convicted, is because if we weren't going to be hypocritical about it, most of the government would have had to resign following the same guidelines.

And, not making the distinction of Kenneth Starr, leading the upright moral charge then, (for an act that was not illegal, though was thoroughly unethical, makes me wonder if we have the discrimination to properly have this conversation now.

In my mind there is no set of circumstances that allow Kenneth Starr to prosecute William Jefferson, and defend Baylor, period. It is the darkest of mental ill health and general bull shit on display, in this man's specific actions.

And yes, I have four daughters. God help anyone that drivels any institutional, fresh start, or Kenneth Starr bull shit to any of them if they are abused in any way.

So...everyone was doing it...she was 22-24 so that's all you need to know there...and Ken Star could not have the moral authority to pick on my boy back in the 90s....because look how bad he sucks at this moral issue...Awesome.

 

[dublinirish]

Engel: Art Briles on thin ice at Baylor

 

[Bogtrotter07]

So...everyone was doing it...she was 22-24 so that's all you need to know there...and Ken Star could not have the moral authority to pick on my boy back in the 90s....because look how bad he sucks at this moral issue...Awesome.

Sorry if my post had more than its share of 'dickiness;' it wasn't intended to be personally toward you.

What had me so absolutely pissed was the following, all expressed in this thread.

One of the athletes is accused of sexually assaulting an 11 year-old. An eleven year old! That is a baby. These are seriously sick individuals. And it ain't even in the same league as what some of these other sick individuals did praying on co-eds who average between 17 and 21 years of age in the examples cited in this case.

Every twentieth century and twenty-first century ex-president had an affair with the opposite sex during his marriage except maybe Teddy Roosevelt, Gerald Ford, Harry S Truman, Jimmy Carter, and Richard Nixon. With Nixon there may be doubt about that if you take the 'opposite sex' criterion out of the statement, (see Bebe Rebozo.)

Senate powers like Strom Thurmond, (etc.,) practically fueled a cottage industry in providing care and financial contributions for illegitimate children. Strom belonged to a gentlemen's club which toasted him approaching his 100th birthday for doubting he would ever die and get buried, because 'it would be two hard to beat down his erection to get the coffin closed.' There was a reason all the members thought it was such a funny comment. And this list goes on, almost to the point that there would be nobody left in government service, if all the philanderers were eliminated.

It is Ken Starr, and his moral authority was politically selective in the nineties. Which is okay, if that is your thing. But their is nothing but criminal hypocrisy involved with an individual that wants to prosecute any man for what Clinton (obviously) did, and wants to defend what Art Broyles and Baylor did recently. Starr is not my cup of tea for the former, but if that is his thing, okay. But combined with the latter, he is entirely outside of any defendable moral frame work, and can only be seen as part of the problem, at least as bad as Clinton, or Briles, take your pick!

 

[phgreek]

Sorry if my post had more than its share of 'dickiness;' it wasn't intended to be personally toward you.

What had me so absolutely pissed was the following, all expressed in this thread.

One of the athletes is accused of sexually assaulting an 11 year-old. An eleven year old! That is a baby. These are seriously sick individuals. And it ain't even in the same league as what some of these other sick individuals did praying on co-eds who average between 17 and 21 years of age in the examples cited in this case.

Every twentieth century and twenty-first century ex-president had an affair with the opposite sex during his marriage except maybe Teddy Roosevelt, Gerald Ford, Harry S Truman, Jimmy Carter, and Richard Nixon. With Nixon there may be doubt about that if you take the 'opposite sex' criterion out of the statement, (see Bebe Rebozo.)

Senate powers like Strom Thurmond, (etc.,) practically fueled a cottage industry in providing care and financial contributions for illegitimate children. Strom belonged to a gentlemen's club which toasted him approaching his 100th birthday for doubting he would ever die and get buried, because 'it would be two hard to beat down his erection to get the coffin closed.' There was a reason all the members thought it was such a funny comment. And this list goes on, almost to the point that there would be nobody left in government service, if all the philanderers were eliminated.

It is Ken Starr, and his moral authority was politically selective in the nineties. Which is okay, if that is your thing. But their is nothing but criminal hypocrisy involved with an individual that wants to prosecute any man for what Clinton (obviously) did, and wants to defend what Art Broyles and Baylor did recently. Starr is not my cup of tea for the former, but if that is his thing, okay. But combined with the latter, he is entirely outside of any defendable moral frame work, and can only be seen as part of the problem, at least as bad as Clinton, or Briles, take your pick!

The investigation into Clinton was NOT instigated to look into blowjobs. That came out as a result of investigating a death and whitewater. I don't know Ken Starr but was he supposed to not report the Lewinsky affair? He did his job, and would not be intimidated.

In the case of Briles, he seems not to be doing his job...can't be pissed at both. Point is he doesn't need moral authority to investigate Bill Clinton or any case...and it is ridiculous to insinuate the Clinton issue from the 90s is more or less valid based on events unrelated at Baylor...Bill Clinton lied to investigators...he got in hot water.

 

[Legacy]

Wow

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/4gg4wr/comprehensive_baylor_timeline_covering/

Ken Starr's Speech to Baylor students (linked above):

Feb. 3, 2016
Dear Students,

With a new semester underway and a year of promise and opportunity before us as a caring and dynamic Baylor community, I write to provide you with an update about Title IX, Baylor’s efforts to prevent and respond to sexual violence and the ongoing external review we commissioned in the fall. Many of you have participated in our Title IX training activities and “It’s on Us” awareness campaign, and I am deeply grateful for your willingness to help ensure that Baylor is a safe campus, free from harassment, discrimination and interpersonal violence. Together we are developing a campus culture that is educated about interpersonal violence and responsive to those who have experienced sexual violence.

Last fall, Baylor University’s Board of Regents initiated a comprehensive external and completely independent review of the University’s response to previous reports of sexual violence. Pepper Hamilton, a nationally recognized law firm with expertise in the institutional response to all aspects of sexual misconduct, has been on campus throughout the fall semester, meeting with administrators and former students and conducting an extensive review of University documents. Baylor has freely provided Pepper Hamilton experts with access to any information they have requested and will continue to cooperate fully with their review, which we understand will continue this semester. Pepper’s review provides a unique opportunity for Baylor to be self-aware, and their guidance will help pinpoint where our processes for responding to acts of interpersonal violence are strong and, most importantly, where we may need to improve. We have asked for, and we expect, a frank and candid assessment that addresses past practices and offers forward-looking recommendations.

In addition to the media coverage about this review, you may have seen or heard recent news reports that focused on Baylor’s response to incidents of sexual assault on our campus involving two former student-athletes, both of whom were subsequently convicted and incarcerated for their crimes. I want to take this opportunity to say a few things about the media coverage of these matters. First, our hearts go out to the survivors of these crimes. Sexual violence has no place at Baylor. Such acts are not consistent with Baylor’s Christian values, and no one should have to endure the trauma and impacts described by these young women. We acknowledge and appreciate the tremendous courage these women demonstrated by coming forward to share their experiences and to continue to raise consciousness and awareness about these critical issues. Their voices are important, and their perspectives help to inform positive steps to enhance campus responses.

Second, while Baylor’s Title IX Coordinator spoke at length to ESPN about Baylor’s ongoing efforts to improve our Title IX work, Baylor could not provide commentary on the University’s handling of response to specific reports of sexual assault. This information is protected by federal student-privacy laws which prevent universities, including Baylor, from speaking publicly about particular incidents. In addition, out of deference to the integrity of the ongoing review by Pepper, any observations about policies and practices would be premature.

In recent years, Baylor has made broad and significant improvements in our Title IX responses. In November 2014, these improvements grew stronger when we hired a full-time, dedicated Title IX Coordinator, Patty Crawford. Patty’s mission is to make certain every person who comes to the Title IX Office is treated with dignity and respect. Patty also ensures that students have access to support and resources, including academic accommodations, access to counseling, residence modifications, no contact orders and other interim remedial and protective measures. Patty is supported by a full-time Title IX case manager and two trained Title IX investigators. The University’s Title IX Policy, which was adopted in August 2015, governs the University’s response to reports of sexual harassment, sexual violence and interpersonal violence. Under the policy, a trained and experienced external professional reviews the investigative report, meets with the parties and witnesses and renders an objective and impartial determination as to responsibility. When a student is found to have committed an act of sexual violence, strong disciplinary consequences ensue according to the University’s Title IX policy.

We have been equally engaged in prevention and education efforts. Nearly every member of Baylor’s campus has been provided the opportunity to attend Title IX training. For some community members, those trainings have been mandatory. During the fall semester, we provided extensive training for student leaders, incoming freshmen and transfers, all varsity athletics teams, student organizations and a number of upper-division student groups. Faculty and staff also received important Title IX training about how to identify and report misconduct and how to connect students with important resources. We are currently conducting additional training and awareness activities all across campus as well as continuing to work with our student advisory group.

Above all, we are most concerned about the safety of our students and are doing all we can to ensure we respond effectively and with great compassion to those impacted by interpersonal violence. Our Title IX Office is committed to responding quickly, compassionately and appropriately to reports of interpersonal violence by students or third-party reporters. In addition, there are campus resources available to all students to seek help and access confidential medical or counseling assistance. We actively encourage students to use all available resources and to contact the Title IX Office so they can provide information about support and resources, options under University policy and options to report to law enforcement. A student who reports sexual violence, but does not wish to pursue disciplinary action, can still receive help and information to inform decision-making. The Title IX Office is committed to balancing a student’s request to remain anonymous with the University’s commitment to provide a safe and non-discriminatory environment to other members of its campus community.

We encourage any member of the Baylor community with concerns related to interpersonal violence to step forward and share his or her experiences with our Title IX Office. You may contact the Title IX Office by phone at (254) 710-8454, by email at patty_crawford@baylor.edu or in person at their office in Clifton Robinson Tower, Suite 285. We also invite students who would like to get involved in the “It’s on Us BU” awareness campaign to contact the Title IX Office for further information.

The topic of interpersonal violence on college campuses is of great concern to me and to all of us who serve on Baylor’s faculty and staff. The well-being and success of our students are the University’s first priority, and on that foundation are built all of the academic and student life services on our campus. Acts of sexual violence contradict every value Baylor University upholds as a caring Christian community. I look forward to continuing our work together to ensure a safe and supportive campus for all students.

It’s on Us BU,

Ken Starr
President and Chancellor

 

[Cali_domer]

@AlexDunlapNFL: #BaylorScandal Internal Investigation will show that BU & Art Briles knew of previous issues w/ players, did nothing https://t.co/GSQzFUyKqJ

RosterWatch | Alex Dunlap on the Baylor Scandal

 

[phgreek]

Great post. I love how you make assumptions on my politics from the post I made. I guess because I didn't automatically call Clinton the anti-Christ I must be some crazy liberal. Send me your contact info so you can talk to my daughter as she obviously needs a better male role model. Douche.

I jsut find it crazy that the lead investigator of the most famous case of sexual impropriety is now the President of a school whose football team racks up more sexual assault charges than yards. At a Christian University no less. Even some of their own fans think it is crazy and Briles should be gone.

Douche was earned... I should not personalize it like that...I don't know you, your motivations, your politics, nor your parenting skills. That was mean spirited, and not reasonable. My sincere apologies.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

@AlexDunlapNFL: #BaylorScandal Internal Investigation will show that BU & Art Briles knew of previous issues w/ players, did nothing https://t.co/GSQzFUyKqJ

RosterWatch | Alex Dunlap on the Baylor Scandal

Think about this.

This is a fact:

The results of a private investigation Baylor has hired an outside firm to conduct will show that Baylor and Head Coach Art Briles were aware of alleged violent incidents involving players who were kept on the football team; and who later went on to commit or be accused of subsequent violent acts against female Baylor students.

If these damning details are not made available in the version of the investigation results Baylor chooses to dispense, it means they have been removed in an attempt to protect Briles, the athletics administration and BU president Ken Starr.

The proof is everywhere. Baylor knows it. Now the question is, will it continue with the cover-up or come clean? In the end, it doesn’t really matter, as I’m quite sure the truth will come out either way.

 

[Cali_domer]

 

[pkt77242]

If this is true, both McCraw and Briles should spend the rest of their life in jail (not that it will happen or even could happen but it is what they deserve).

 

[Bogtrotter07]

If this is true, both McCraw and Briles should spend the rest of their life in jail (not that it will happen or even could happen but it is what they deserve).

. . . being raped!

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Breaking: Police records obtained by OTL detail several more violence allegations against Baylor football players: <a href="https://t.co/NSYRL98wML">https://t.co/NSYRL98wML</a></p>— Chris Buckle (@chris_buckle) <a href="https://twitter.com/chris_buckle/status/732985460616790017">May 18, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>