Another Shooting

[NorthDakota]

What you call soft I call a collective "What the fuck are we doing?" Senses came to, guns handed in on a buy back. And no mass shootings since.

Cool. If the people there were okay with it, that's their prerogative. That's not something I'm remotely interested in doing here

 

[Bishop2b5]

Thats interesting. I don't need a gun to feel confident or empowered. Granted I also don't live in the crime ridden streets of where ever that guys lives in Tennessee (WOW!). What does this article have to do with anything outside of pointing out that this guys is empowered and spreading his contagiousness to his neighbors?

I think you totally missed the entire point of the article if that's what you got from it. You're giving others grief for being so locked into a position that they've ceased to be on a first name basis with logic or that they're willing to "die on that hill," but you're doing exactly the same from the other end of the issue's spectrum.

 

[IrishLax]

Sheriff says he got 23 calls about shooter's family, but records show more

45 calls on Cruz, did nothing.

 

[Wild Bill]

Still waiting for an answer to my question.

Zero, in any school.

Perhaps the second amendment provided Americans with a false sense of security for a couple hundred years, and then at some point in the 90s it became the cause of school shootings across the country.

Or maybe there is a deeper explanation. What if these mass shootings are somehow connected to the cultural decline we've experienced in my lifetime and the complete lack of social cohesion?

Given the cultural decline and lack of social cohesion, do you think it's realistic that law abiding citizens are going to willingly disarm themselves at the request of our country's media and elites? We're not that naive.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Sheriff says he got 23 calls about shooter's family, but records show more

45 calls on Cruz, did nothing.

Yup, Sheriff needs to resign now. Read somewhere that Gov. Scott is ordering an independent investigation into the situation.

I'm not against some new laws, but we need to get better at enforcing the current ones.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Perhaps the second amendment provided Americans with a false sense of security for a couple hundred years, and then at some point in the 90s it became the cause of school shootings across the country.

This Twitter thread makes a similar point:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some thoughts on why we and our institutions may be failing to deal with mass shootings because we approach them as part of broader problems, not as a distinct and self-perpetuating plague.</p>— Ari Schulman (@AriSchulman) <a href="https://twitter.com/AriSchulman/status/964614619523362816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The problem with almost every narrative that mass shootings are “actually an X problem” is that X is usually so broad it’s like saying the real problem with asteroid impacts is that the Earth is so big.

...

Mass shootings do have something to do with all of these factors (except race). But weakly. Saying they’re “actually about” any one thing misses the singular nature of this violence. It doesn’t go anywhere, rhetorically or practically or politically.

...

To the extent that mass shootings are about anything, it’s themselves. They have a distinct etiology: They’re a form of imitative apolitical terrorism, fueled by antisocial rage but spread by infamy-seeking and social contagion.

...

Strategies with a chance of doing anything must, like past efforts to stop hijacking, terrorism, and assassinations, understand mass shootings as a distinct form of self-perpetuating violence, and strategically target them as such.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

This Twitter thread makes a similar point:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some thoughts on why we and our institutions may be failing to deal with mass shootings because we approach them as part of broader problems, not as a distinct and self-perpetuating plague.</p>— Ari Schulman (@AriSchulman) <a href="https://twitter.com/AriSchulman/status/964614619523362816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This really is a great thread. I read it when you first posted it. Makes a lot of great points.

 

[Legacy]

Thats interesting. I don't need a gun to feel confident or empowered. Granted I also don't live in the crime ridden streets of where ever that guys lives in Tennessee (WOW!). What does this article have to do with anything outside of pointing out that this guys is empowered and spreading his contagiousness to his neighbors?

It's time we treated our AR-15s like our F-150s (Opinion piece in The Dallas Morning News, which has a section on Guns) FWI - has a paywall

 

[wizards8507]

It's time we treated our AR-15s like our F-150s (Opinion piece in The Dallas Morning News, which has a section on Guns) FWI - has a paywall

"Certainly most of us don't need them. Unless you include squirrels, there are no terrorists lurking in my subdivision that warrant arming ourselves with military-grade weaponry."

The "need" for military-style weapons (and I hate that term) is not for regular, everyday use. I probably won't "need" a million-dollar life insurance policy, but I still have one. Why? Just in case.

 

[RDU Irish]

Perhaps the second amendment provided Americans with a false sense of security for a couple hundred years, and then at some point in the 90s it became the cause of school shootings across the country.

Or maybe there is a deeper explanation. What if these mass shootings are somehow connected to the cultural decline we've experienced in my lifetime and the complete lack of social cohesion?

Given the cultural decline and lack of social cohesion, do you think it's realistic that law abiding citizens are going to willingly disarm themselves at the request of our country's media and elites? We're not that naive.

Amen

The article I posted discusses the increased violent crime in countries that ban guns. Criminals are emboldened. Top reasons not to be a burglar 1A) you might get shot, 1B) you might get caught and go to jail. To minimize 1A, criminals case the joint and break in when nobody is thought to be home. In gun free zones - home invasions skyrocket as criminals don't see the need to avoid guns, rather benefit from wallets and purses on premise - cash doesn't need to be fenced. Due to higher incident of interacting with resident - assault rates drastically increase. Home owners are safer as a result of the clear and present danger of breaking in with someone home and owning a gun.

Now in a time of social decline is a time to learn to protect yourself, not a time to submit your fate to the whims of authorities and politicians.

 

[phork]

Perhaps the second amendment provided Americans with a false sense of security for a couple hundred years, and then at some point in the 90s it became the cause of school shootings across the country.

Or maybe there is a deeper explanation. What if these mass shootings are somehow connected to the cultural decline we've experienced in my lifetime and the complete lack of social cohesion?

Given the cultural decline and lack of social cohesion, do you think it's realistic that law abiding citizens are going to willingly disarm themselves at the request of our country's media and elites? We're not that naive.

I asked this question a little ways back. Is it just the decline in American society?

Amen

The article I posted discusses the increased violent crime in countries that ban guns. Criminals are emboldened. Top reasons not to be a burglar 1A) you might get shot, 1B) you might get caught and go to jail. To minimize 1A, criminals case the joint and break in when nobody is thought to be home. In gun free zones - home invasions skyrocket as criminals don't see the need to avoid guns, rather benefit from wallets and purses on premise - cash doesn't need to be fenced. Due to higher incident of interacting with resident - assault rates drastically increase. Home owners are safer as a result of the clear and present danger of breaking in with someone home and owning a gun.

Now in a time of social decline is a time to learn to protect yourself, not a time to submit your fate to the whims of authorities and politicians.

Man Canada must be a crime infested cess pool, not to mention a bunch of other countries. Oh wait.

 

[ACamp1900]

Canada is definitely a cess pool...

next topic.

 

[NorthDakota]

Canada is definitely a cess pool...

next topic.

Other than Quebec, definitely.

 

[Legacy]

"Violent Death Rates: The US Compared with Other High-income OECD Countries, 2010," American Journal of Medicine, 2015.

 

[wizards8507]

"Violent Death Rates: The US Compared with Other High-income OECD Countries, 2010," American Journal of Medicine, 2015.

Who cares? We're 94th in murders per 100,000. Yeah, banning guns would reduce gun murders and gun violence, but it wouldn't do shit to reduce total murders or total violence. Would it really be solace to a murder victim and his family that "welp, at least he wasn't murdered with a gun!"?

List of countries by intentional homicide rate

Canada is definitely a cess pool...

next topic.

Can confirm. Am 75% French Canadian, identify as Portuguese.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I asked this question a little ways back. Is it just the decline in American society?

I don't think so, but I do think it's significantly worse in American society for several reasons. We're seeing an entire culture under attack and being essentially obliterated in only a generation or two. Hard for anyone to adapt well to that, and many of the changes are undeniably unhealthy and downright destructive to individuals and society as a whole. There's been an enormous erosion of civility, following the golden rule, respect for anyone who's values or views differ from yours, a polarization of the political camps, and a general coarsening of culture and society. Lots of reasons why, many of them unique to the US or at least much more prevalent here. Social media and the ability to lash out, fuel the fires, and say almost anything anonymously on the Internet haven't helped.

 

[phgreek]

Perhaps the second amendment provided Americans with a false sense of security for a couple hundred years, and then at some point in the 90s it became the cause of school shootings across the country.

Or maybe there is a deeper explanation. What if these mass shootings are somehow connected to the cultural decline we've experienced in my lifetime and the complete lack of social cohesion?

Given the cultural decline and lack of social cohesion, do you think it's realistic that law abiding citizens are going to willingly disarm themselves at the request of our country's media and elites? We're not that naive.

Ding, Ding, Ding. Give the man a prize.

 

[phork]

Who cares? We're 94th in murders per 100,000. Yeah, banning guns would reduce gun murders and gun violence, but it wouldn't do shit to reduce total murders or total violence. Would it really be solace to a murder victim and his family that "welp, at least he wasn't murdered with a gun!"?

I'd sleep better at night know that my kids weren't getting mowed down in school the next day. Which is, you know, the whole point of this thread.

 

[NorthDakota]

I'd sleep better at night know that my kids weren't getting mowed down in school the next day. Which is, you know, the whole point of this thread.

The deadliest school shooting in American history happened when I was in high school. Probably 20-30% of the guys in my class kept guns in their vehicles. Never worried about getting shot at.

 

[irishff1014]

I'd sleep better at night know that my kids weren't getting mowed down in school the next day. Which is, you know, the whole point of this thread.

I wasn’t going to get in this topic but I see i’ll have to drop my comment.

You all talking about mental health and how it will help these shootings from not happen. No the f it won’t and you want to know why?

Because a man can cut off his pecker and be a woman. That’s mental heath at it’s finest. You don’t get more bat shit crazy than that.

This didn’t happen 25 years ago. Society has allowed it to be acceptable.

Guy wants to be a girl screwed up and kided wants to kill his classmates screwed up. They wired different upstairs no matter what a human does to try to change that. It just flat out won’t work!

 

[yankeehater]

What you call soft I call a collective "What the fuck are we doing?" Senses came to, guns handed in on a buy back. And no mass shootings since.

Once you remove all of the guns from the US, how do you propose stopping illegal guns from crossing the borders back into the States? My guess is it would be easier to do on an island Continent like Australia.

BTW....we currently do have gun buy back programs in California and Los Angeles as well as other states. I find it hard pressed to find a difference in gun crimes because of it.

 

[Wild Bill]

I asked this question a little ways back. Is it just the decline in American society?

We (Americans not leafs) live in a low trust society, far lower than most countries in the western world. Rather than learning from the mistakes we made, the rest of the western world decided to follow our lead. We're paying the price now. The rest aren't far behind. They'll be paying the toll soon enough.

 

[SonofOahu]

Or maybe there is a deeper explanation. What if these mass shootings are somehow connected to the cultural decline we've experienced in my lifetime and the complete lack of social cohesion?

The current resident in the White House has been taped discussing his love of sexually assaulting women, has sided with actual fucking nazis, and lies more often than he tells the truth. Yeah, I'd say we're experiencing a cultural decline and lack of social cohesion.

 

[SonofOahu]

Can confirm. Am 75% French Canadian, identify as Portuguese.

This really explains a lot.

 

[phgreek]

This Twitter thread makes a similar point:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some thoughts on why we and our institutions may be failing to deal with mass shootings because we approach them as part of broader problems, not as a distinct and self-perpetuating plague.</p>— Ari Schulman (@AriSchulman) <a href="https://twitter.com/AriSchulman/status/964614619523362816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

"To the extent that mass shootings are about anything, it’s themselves. They have a distinct etiology: They’re a form of imitative apolitical terrorism, fueled by antisocial rage but spread by infamy-seeking and social contagion.
"

I tend to agree. But as the infamy seeking pays off orders of magnituide more with 24 hour news, social media, etc., the frequency increases....its almost like media is the "Bump Stock" to the etiology...and here is the kicker...then too should we ban showing the faces and providing the identity of these people? Or is it so clear the lever to command the issue lies in second amendment and not first?

 

[Wild Bill]

The current resident in the White House has been taped discussing his love of sexually assaulting women, has sided with actual fucking nazis, and lies more often than he tells the truth. Yeah, I'd say we're experiencing a cultural decline and lack of social cohesion.

This all started November 8, 2016. #resist

 

[SonofOahu]

This all started November 8, 2016. #resist

The only thing your side is resisting is admitting the fact that y'all are Russian cucks... Rucks?

 

[Legacy]

Concealed Carry Reciprocity: Overriding State Public Safety Laws (Everytown for Gun Safety)

Bottom Line: Concealed carry reciprocity would force each state to recognize the concealed carry standards from every other state, even those that have dramatically weaker standards—and those that don’t require any permit at all. Law enforcement overwhelmingly opposes this legislation, which would put police in danger for doing their jobs.

Reciprocity would force states to let violent offenders and people with no firearm safety training carry hidden, loaded handguns—even if those people could not otherwise legally purchase a gun in the state.

Legislation pushed by the gun lobby (H.R. 38; S.446) would even force states to allow concealed carry by many people with no permit whatsoever—allowing people who have never been screened by a background check to carry throughout the country....

How I Got Licensed to Carry a Concealed Gun in 32 States by Barely Trying (Mother Jones)

I was clueless, hung over, and totally worthless with a firearm. Four hours later, I was officially qualified to pack heat.

According to the state of Utah, I earned the right to carry a concealed handgun on a Saturday morning in a suburban shopping center outside Baltimore. Toward the back, next to a pawnshop and White Trash Matt’s tattoo parlor, is the global headquarters of Dukes Defense World, a mom-and-pop firearms instruction shop certified by the Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification to teach nonresidents firearm safety as a prerequisite for obtaining a concealed-carry permit.

My achievement doesn’t make sense for a number of reasons. One, I don’t live in Utah. I’m a resident of Washington, DC, a city that holds concealed handguns in roughly the same esteem as working escalators. I’ve never shot a gun. And in distinctly un-Utahn fashion, I’m nursing a hangover. Fortunately, none of that matters here. After four hours at Dukes Defense, I have a completed application and a snazzy graduation certificate for my wall. Sixty days after my application is processed, I’ll be able to carry a concealed weapon in no fewer than 32 states. It’s great for road trips

House Concealed-Carry Reciprocity Measure Still Roadblock to Gun Legislation (RollCall)

A measure that would allow citizens with concealed-carry permits in one state to carry their guns into states with stricter gun laws looms as a roadblock for legislative action to bolster the criminal background check system for gun purchases.

The Republican-controlled House passed a bill in December mostly on party lines that attached the so-called concealed-carry reciprocity measure to the Senate’s “Fix-NICS” bill aimed at bolstering enforcement of the current federal background check system.

 

[wizards8507]

Concealed Carry Reciprocity: Overriding State Public Safety Laws (Everytown for Gun Safety)

How I Got Licensed to Carry a Concealed Gun in 32 States by Barely Trying (Mother Jones)


House Concealed-Carry Reciprocity Measure Still Roadblock to Gun Legislation (RollCall)

Yeah individual states need to close those loopholes. Reciprocity should only be based on states with equal or more stringent standards. Once finish all of Connecticut's bullshit, I should be able to carry on a damn naval base. I'd even advocate no reciprocity at all. One state shouldn't be on the hook for another state's lax standards.

See Cack? Common sense reform that I can agree on.

Regardless, concealed carry permits have absolutely nothing to do with school shootings.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Who cares? We're 94th in murders per 100,000. Yeah, banning guns would reduce gun murders and gun violence, but it wouldn't do shit to reduce total murders or total violence. Would it really be solace to a murder victim and his family that "welp, at least he wasn't murdered with a gun!"?

List of countries by intentional homicide rate

I get what you're saying, but when I look at that list I see a whole lot of countries who have rates <1. Seems logical to look at them and see what it is they do differently. Not just in terms of gun control but just values and culture in general.

Sure would be nice to have the CDC do some research on the the issue. Oh wait...