All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

InKellyWeTrust

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I wish C3PO would have died when they made a big deal about him losing his memory. All he had to do was reboot his backup? lame

Agreed. There needs to be some attrition from the good guys too. Someone said it earlier in this thread I think but they outed some potential emotional payoffs. Chewies dead! Nope. C3po processor wipe! Nope. Kylo died! Nope. Rey died! Nope. Kylo died again! Probably permanent? I liked the movie overall but I thought it could have had a larger emotional impact. I also dont like how characters were introduced so late in the story but i guess Rian Johnson ruined the middle chapter so the build up wasnt there.
 

ulukinatme

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Palpatine. Vader fucking killed him. Bringing him back as anything other than a force ghost was stupid and felt like desperation.

Again, it was unfortunate but necessary. There was no antagonist for Rey to face to complete her character arc after Last Jedi. Abrams' hand was forced to go back to the well for a bad guy when Johnson served him a shit sandwich killing off his Snoke in Last Jedi. Nobody was going to care if Rey faced a brand, new baddie that was getting introduced in the final film of a trilogy. You can blame Johnson for being a dumbass.
 

greyhammer90

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But seriously, who gives a shit about the new trilogy. The Mandalorian is soooooo lit.
 

ulukinatme

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But seriously, who gives a shit about the new trilogy. The Mandalorian is soooooo lit.

I just binged it over Christmas after my SIL gave us a profile to login with. I'm through Episode 8 now, absolutely love it. John Favreau is king, who would have thought that a bit player in Rudy would turn out to be an incredible Hollywood player.
 

IrishLax

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But seriously, who gives a shit about the new trilogy. The Mandalorian is soooooo lit.

We just watched it this weekend and my wife, who is not a huge Star Wars fan, proclaimed it as “the greatest show ever.” I came home today to her watching it again from the beginning.

While I don’t think it’s quite an A+, it certainly has A+ potential and I can’t wait to see what they do with it. I have a lot of faith in Jon Favreau and the first three episodes + last two episodes were excellent.
 

greyhammer90

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I just binged it over Christmas after my SIL gave us a profile to login with. I'm through Episode 8 now, absolutely love it. John Favreau is king, who would have thought that a bit player in Rudy would turn out to be an incredible Hollywood player.

I just watched the last three episodes and commented to my wife how I felt nothing in the theater last week and left thinking "I think I've outgrown this. I'm feeling no magic", then I come home to this, watch episode 8 and just want to play with a tie fighter action figure and pretend I'm a bounty hunter blowing it up.
 

wizards8507

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I just binged it over Christmas after my SIL gave us a profile to login with. I'm through Episode 8 now, absolutely love it. John Favreau is king, who would have thought that a bit player in Rudy would turn out to be an incredible Hollywood player.
Password sharing a $7 subscription is the Poorest shit I've ever heard.
 

calvegas04

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We just watched it this weekend and my wife, who is not a huge Star Wars fan, proclaimed it as “the greatest show ever.” I came home today to her watching it again from the beginning.

While I don’t think it’s quite an A+, it certainly has A+ potential and I can’t wait to see what they do with it. I have a lot of faith in Jon Favreau and the first three episodes + last two episodes were excellent.

If the show did not have Star Wars in front of the name it would be a basic Sci Fi channel show. The last 2 episodes really saved the season from being a very poor show. I would give it a B overall
 

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If the show did not have Star Wars in front of the name it would be a basic Sci Fi channel show. The last 2 episodes really saved the season from being a very poor show. I would give it a B overall

Except for the acting, writing, score, and visual effect.

Sci-fi has never produced a single frame with the production quality that the mandalorian has. It's basically a triple a movie made for TV.
 
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gkIrish

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If my fiance is in love with the show as much as I am and she hates sci-fi they did an A+ job.
 

calvegas04

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You seem to have woken up a little salty today. /hand wave/ This isn't the thread you're looking for.

Not salty, I just thought the story was very weak up until the last two episodes. I can't wait for the Obi Wan series as they should have a better time creating a story for him.
 

IrishLax

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Or only taking vacations to Disney because you get a discount

source.gif
 

IrishLax

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If my fiance is in love with the show as much as I am and she hates sci-fi they did an A+ job.

My wife has now watched the series twice in the span of 4 days (!!!!) and is messaging me links about about stuff (like a "dark saber") with snarky ass comments like "I'm surprised you didn't know this, I thought you said you read Star Wars books when you were growing up." I'm not sure whether impressed or scared.

Before this she *barely tolerated* Star Wars media.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Finally saw Rise of Skywalker last night. I enjoyed that it was basically an extended apology for the abomination that was TLJ: the irrelevancy of Rose, Finn getting a new love interest, deriding the "Holdo Manuever"; etc. Ben and Rey needed to marry before the former died, though, so the latter could carry on the Skywalker bloodline. Her taking the name without being pregnant felt a little hollow.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“I’m Rey.” <br>“Rey who?”<br>*Rey looks around for a moment, then smiles*<br>“Rey Star Wars.”<br><br>DIRECTED BY JJ ABRAMS</p>— Chris Evangelista (@cevangelista413) <a href="https://twitter.com/cevangelista413/status/1208897096218300417?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 22, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

But man, the new trilogy sucked so bad. It's clear that at least some people at Disney know how to do Star Wars well, so how did a decade and billions of dollars get wasted on this incoherent mess?

But seriously, who gives a shit about the new trilogy. The Mandalorian is soooooo lit.

We just watched it this weekend and my wife, who is not a huge Star Wars fan, proclaimed it as “the greatest show ever.” I came home today to her watching it again from the beginning.

While I don’t think it’s quite an A+, it certainly has A+ potential and I can’t wait to see what they do with it. I have a lot of faith in Jon Favreau and the first three episodes + last two episodes were excellent.

I just watched the last three episodes and commented to my wife how I felt nothing in the theater last week and left thinking "I think I've outgrown this. I'm feeling no magic", then I come home to this, watch episode 8 and just want to play with a tie fighter action figure and pretend I'm a bounty hunter blowing it up.

If my fiance is in love with the show as much as I am and she hates sci-fi they did an A+ job.

Star Wars has never had a unique plot. The original trilogy featured a garden variety fantasy storyline populated by stock characters from samurai and western films (Solo is basically Shane in space, Din Djarin could've stepped right out of a Kurosawa movie, etc.) And that's what makes them great: recognizable characters in a timeless meta-mythic story, but with cutting edge special effects, sound and musical score.

As soon as you start trying to demystify the Force, cram modern political propaganda into the plot, or get away from the recognizable stock characters, then Star Wars becomes unbearably f*cking lame. George Lucas is basically an idiot savant who made a masterpiece with the original trilogy, and then proceeded to run the franchise into the ground over the next two decades because he didn't understand why it succeeded in the first place.

Hopefully Disney has learned a very expensive lesson and figured out the formula for success.
 

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Star Wars has never had a unique plot. The original trilogy featured a garden variety fantasy storyline populated by stock characters from samurai and western films (Solo is basically Shane in space, Din Djarin could've stepped right out of a Kurosawa movie, etc.) And that's what makes them great: recognizable characters in a timeless meta-mythic story, but with cutting edge special effects, sound and musical score.

As soon as you start trying to demystify the Force, cram modern political propaganda into the plot, or get away from the recognizable stock characters, then Star Wars becomes unbearably f*cking lame. George Lucas is basically an idiot savant who made a masterpiece with the original trilogy, and then proceeded to run the franchise into the ground over the next two decades because he didn't understand why it succeeded in the first place.

Star Wars is a victim of its own success in that regard. ESB is legitimately one of the greatest movies of all time. It's own quality has warped peoples perception of what Star Wars films are "supposed" to be.
 

greyhammer90

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Star Wars is a victim of its own success in that regard. ESB is legitimately one of the greatest movies of all time. It's own quality has warped peoples perception of what Star Wars films are "supposed" to be.

Bingo.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Star Wars is a victim of its own success in that regard. ESB is legitimately one of the greatest movies of all time. It's own quality has warped peoples perception of what Star Wars films are "supposed" to be.

I might be tempted to agree if ESB was the product of a bunch of difficult-to-replicate coincidences, but it wasn't lightning in a bottle. It was the 2nd installment in a trilogy that was well set-up by its precursor. The formula is there for Disney to replicate its success, as Favreau has shown with The Mandalorian.

If the Obi-Wan serial is as good or better than The Mandalorian, then that ought to bode well for future theater releases.
 

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I might be tempted to agree if ESB was the product of a bunch of difficult-to-replicate coincidences, but it wasn't lightning in a bottle. It was the 2nd installment in a trilogy that was well set-up by its precursor. The formula is there for Disney to replicate its success, as Favreau has shown with The Mandalorian.

If the Obi-Wan serial is as good or better than The Mandalorian, then that ought to bode well for future theater releases.

I think the chances of them pulling off something transcendent are much higher as they move away from the OT/Skywalker era. Fact is there was no trilogy they could have come up with that included the old guard that would have check all the boxes they needed to hit.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I think the chances of them pulling off something transcendent are much higher as they move away from the OT/Skywalker era. Fact is there was no trilogy they could have come up with that included the old guard that would have check all the boxes they needed to hit.

That I agree with. TFA was criticized for being an uninspired rehash of ANH. TLJ might have been an over correction to that initial criticism, and then TRoS ended up a bit of a rushed mess as Abrams tried to retcon TLJ sufficiently to wrap up the homage of the original trilogy that he had envisioned from the start.

As I mentioned earlier, there's nothing unique about most of the main characters. Han Solo is a space cowboy. The Millennium Falcon (the coolest car in cinematic history), is his epic mount. All Disney has to do is dive into the enduring tropes of fantasy, western and samurai films, and then put a Star Wars twist on it. People will eat it up.
 

ACamp1900

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I think the chances of them pulling off something transcendent are much higher as they move away from the OT/Skywalker era. Fact is there was no trilogy they could have come up with that included the old guard that would have check all the boxes they needed to hit.

Thrawn would have,... easily. They tried to reinvent the wheel,...
 

arrowryan

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For people asking why Jedi's can heal now. Didn't Palpatine tell Anakin in Episode 3 that there were healing powers that could be learned? Which was basically the only reason he turned to the dark side, to prevent Amidala from dying while giving birth?

I wouldn't consider myself a Star Wars nerd, but I'm a big fan of the series. I'm in the middle of rewatching all of them in order to fully understand all of it.

I thought ROS was good. I'm interested to see what they do for a new trilogy.

I'll have to rewatch The Last Jedi. I had no idea who Rian Johnson was until 15 minutes ago after reading this thread.
 

arrowryan

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As for Mandolorian, the last two episodes saved the season.

I thought Mando and Baby Yoda riding in the galaxy like dad and lad was cool at first, but it was getting stale. I'm glad they gave the series a true plot with some substance in episode 7.

In the next season, I'd like for them to show us the back story of Baby Yoda and his species. Where did he come from? Why was he on the planet where Mando found him? Will he have a larger role with more powers? Or is he just gonna play cute and do something important when he absolutely needs to?
 

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Then recast,... would have been better than what they did...

I agree with you, but again that goes to my point of them not being able to please everyone. Can you imagine the firestorm that would have been caused if Disney announced a sequel trilogy that didn't include Hamill, Fisher, or Ford?
 

IrishLax

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The OT crew was way too old to pull off Thrawn. That's supposed to take place 5 years after RotJ.

The thing is, there was so much EU content that it easily could've been changed/adapted to have a cohesive storyline with a 30 year time jump. You could've just reimagined Thrawn like many franchises do with primary antagonists.

If they were going to completely punt on all of that content, which I understand strategically, then they needed to a MCU-style cohesive plan not only for the new trilogy but a wide array of spinoffs. Instead, they let a rogue director take whatever plot arc they were going for and light it on fire. This not only compromised the integrity of the new trilogy, but seriously threatened the viability of the entire franchise.

It seems more likely than not that what is going to ultimately save Star Wars are the Disney+ shows. The Mandalorian is already a mega hit, but they all don't need to be. There is a much larger margin for error with spinoff streaming series -- as we saw with some mediocre Marvel shows on Netflix -- and they have an opportunity to build up good will before they release another tent pole movie.
 

Whiskeyjack

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The Washington Examiner just published an article by Jibran Khan titled "The Way of the Mandalore":

The Mandalorian, the new Star Wars space western by Jon Favreau and George Lucas protégé Dave Filoni now streaming on Disney Plus, feels like vintage Star Wars. It does so despite, or perhaps as a result of, its creators’ decision to eschew the consciously “retro” approach of recent sequel films, such as The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker, and to instead draw directly on the very genres, ideas, and filmmakers that captured Lucas’s imagination all those years ago. The score, by Ludwig Goransson, sounds like Ennio Morricone with Eastern instruments, evoking a cross between the lone rider and the samurai. But even more crucially, the series taps into what was behind the visuals of the original films. The Mandalorian is the portrait of a believer, grounded in his creed and rituals, in a chaotic environment where this path could lead to his persecution.

The show stars Pedro Pascal as an unnamed Mandalorian bounty hunter, “the” Mandalorian, as far as anyone knows, called “Mando” by most. He’s extremely skilled as a combatant, and his helmet is immediately recognizable. But this helmet is not just a piece of armor but also a religious head-covering that cannot be removed in front of others. It turns out that he is one of a group of Mandalorians in hiding, all of whom seek to “walk the Way of the Mandalore.” And when a bounty contract leads to a result — the possibility of harm to a child — that is unacceptable to his religious and moral code, he breaks the rules of his guild to follow the "Higher Law." This causes an immediate and violent backlash that requires the clan to come out of hiding to help defend the hero and the child. He apologizes for forcing his people to reveal themselves, which will require them to seek a new sanctuary, but the apology is unnecessary. “This is the Way,” his fellow Mandalorian replies. Morality and the sacred order must be upheld, even at personal cost.

Mando’s actions put him in the role of surrogate father to the child, which in itself sets up a homage to the legendary Japanese comic, film, and TV series Lone Wolf and Cub, which follows a wandering samurai and his baby son. Lone Wolf and Cub was contemporaneous with Star Wars, rather than an influence on it, but it drew from the same well of Japanese jidaigeki (period drama) that George Lucas did.

Lucas has spoken about the experience of watching Akira Kurosawa’s jidaigeki films about samurai and feudal Japan — including classics such as The Hidden Fortress, The Seven Samurai, and Yojimbo — without any background in Japanese history, culture, or religion. He had to learn that world experientially. He sought to replicate this dynamic in Star Wars, taking a “show, not tell” approach to introducing his galaxy, even when it came to the universe’s metaphysics. This is the feeling captured by The Mandalorian from the outset. We observe the Mandalorian religion in action long before it is laid out, when Mando and army veteran Cara Dune (played by Gina Carano) explain: “Mandalorian isn’t a race. It’s a creed.”

Star Wars features fervent believers (“may the Force be with you”), amused skeptics (“I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything”), and those actively hostile to faith (“your sad devotion to that ancient religion”). Lucas chose to show this diversity rather than to take too explicit a stance. He knows that the Force is real, but he leaves it up to the viewer to learn this for himself.

Critics often cite Star Wars’s debt to the mythologist Joseph Campbell, particularly his notion of “the hero’s journey” contained in his book The Hero With a Thousand Faces. Often overlooked is Campbell’s belief that all myths and religions emerged from a primordial monotheism, written into the universe and all that reside in it. And religion doesn’t simply consist of “faith.” It also consists of training and initiation to take the young boy into manhood, grounded in rituals that help him transcend his lower self and understand his place in the world. This pattern could be found in every traditional society, and there is much to be said about the problems generated by its absence today.

As Cambridge theologian Timothy Winter explained in a 2016 lecture, the hero "grows into a role of sacred warriorhood. And that's present in all of the Chinese, the Indian, the Islamic [legends]. It's a universal legend, as [Campbell] saw it, of humanity. And [Lucas] used this essentially sacred story, with its quasi-static hippy-ish dimension of 'the Force be with you,' as a way of retelling for modern audiences [this] really ancient story."

Winter’s analysis echoes the words of Lucas himself, who explained in the 1999 Phantom Menace Scrapbook,
I wanted a concept of religion based on the premise that there is a God and there is good and evil. I began to distill the essence of all religions into what I thought was a basic idea common to all religions and common to primitive thinking … I believe in God and I believe in right and wrong. I also believe that there are basic tenets which through history have developed into certainties, such as 'thou shalt not kill.' I don't want to hurt other people. 'Do unto others ...' is the philosophy that permeates my work

I’ve been a Star Wars fan all my life. But I’ve only just picked up on how well the series reflects the observation of the eighth century Baghdadi poet Abu al Atahiya that “in every thing there is a sign that indicates that He is One.”

Star Wars is a didactic text dressed up as a B-movie. And this is an aspect of the mythos that the writers of The Mandalorian take very seriously. Lucas advised Favreau, “We enjoy the stories as adults, but really, storytelling is about imparting the wisdom of the previous generations on to the children.” We’ve come to sneer at morality plays today, finding the notion of spiritual or moral instruction through entertainment patronizing. Yet for just about every culture, narrative and moral education work as a pair. The Mandalorian has been out for just a few weeks, but by way of Japan and America, it taps into this much older, universal tradition. This is the Way.

Touches on some points I tried to make earlier regarding why The Mandalorian is great, and the new trilogy sucks.
 
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