All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[ulukinatme]

Should have cast Salma Hayek then... I'd have already seen it four times.

Given this thread, I was going to take the high ground, but...

You underestimate their power

Four is a low ball figure.

 

[ACamp1900]

Even as she gets older... just....

 

[RDU Irish]

Lando was highlight of the movie. Happy his droid got blown up - over the top feminazi attitude was a bit too much for a robot. Humanization of droids is getting ridiculous - almost as predictable as shoving women into as many bad ass roles as possible (looking at you Marauders - nice twist but it is getting too forced at this point). Lando can be loyal and "love" his trusty companion without wanting to screw it.

Solo was way too naive and inexperienced - lacked depth. However I think that may be by design as they are setting up a sequel or series out of this whole thing.

No doubt he shot first at the end.

Chewy kicks ass.

 

[calvegas04]

Ok so Darth Maul at the end I was not expecting at all. I know he was alive from the cartoon shows but din't think they would bring him back in a movie. Gotta be setting up as a villain in the Obi Wan movie then right?

 

[wizards8507]

Star Wars Spinoffs on Hold at Lucasfilm | Collider

SMH

This movie that NOBODY WANTED bombed so we're going to stop making the movies that EVERYONE WANTS.

 

[IrishLion]

Star Wars Spinoffs on Hold at Lucasfilm | Collider

SMH

This movie that NOBODY WANTED bombed so we're going to stop making the movies that EVERYONE WANTS.

The consensus growing in the industry and among fans seems to be that the movie was actually kind of good, and a welcome addition as a standalone film... but it's bombing at the box office because of poor/not enough marketing.

I still haven't seen it, so I'm contributing to the failure.

(My wife and I alternate movie picks for date night... I get to go see Oceans 8 tomorrow instead of Solo or The Incredibles 2.)

 

[zelezo vlk]

The consensus growing in the industry and among fans seems to be that the movie was actually kind of good, and a welcome addition as a standalone film... but it's bombing at the box office because of poor/not enough marketing.

I still haven't seen it, so I'm contributing to the failure.

(My wife and I alternate movie picks for date night... I get to go see Oceans 8 tomorrow instead of Solo or The Incredibles 2.)

I saw Solo and Oceans 8 and enjoyed both. Neither were great (I'm hearing Incredibles 2 is), but fun times at the theater.

 

[GATTACA!]

The consensus growing in the industry and among fans seems to be that the movie was actually kind of good, and a welcome addition as a standalone film... but it's bombing at the box office because of poor/not enough marketing.

I still haven't seen it, so I'm contributing to the failure.

(My wife and I alternate movie picks for date night... I get to go see Oceans 8 tomorrow instead of Solo or The Incredibles 2.)

Solo was way better than I had anticipated. I think it bombed because they put it way too close to TLJ. Because they were waiting for TLJ to be out of theaters Solo didn't even get trailers until way later than usual.

Oceans 8 was fun. I'm a huge Soderberg fan, the Oceans movies in particular, so maybe I'm more lenient than I'd normally be.

I'd rank it something like

Oceans 11

Oceans 13

Logan Lucky

Oceans 8

Oceans 12

 

[IrishLax]

No one went to see Solo because the Last Jedi was loathed by most people with a brain/who aren't Disney shills... and those people aren't going to open up their wallets as long as Disney continues in their current direction.

TLJ had a 46% audience score (despite a 91% from critics)... and rather than own the number of problems it had, the response has been -- literally -- to blame "sexism" and "white males" and everything but the fact that it had major plot holes and horrible characters.

I feel bad for JJ Abrams because he has a 0% chance of saving the next film regardless of how hard he tries. Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson killed all the institutional goodwill that existed for decades among Star Wars fans.

 

[wizards8507]

TLJ had a 46% audience score (despite a 91% from critics)... and rather than own the number of problems it had, the response has been -- literally -- to blame "sexism" and "white males" and everything but the fact that it had major plot holes and horrible characters.

The Rotten Tomatoes audience score is absolutely because of racism and sexism and white males. This is well documented.

I'm open to debate any alleged plot holes you think there might have been. I think there are plot problems (Canto Bight and Finn not dying chief among them), but not plot holes.

 

[zelezo vlk]

The Rotten Tomatoes audience score is absolutely because of racism and sexism and white males. This is well documented.

I'm open to debate any alleged plot holes you think there might have been. I think there are plot problems (Canto Bight and Finn not dying chief among them), but not plot holes.

What's the best explanation you've seen for the hyperspace jump not being used before? I've seen only a couple theories that seem plausible

 

[wizards8507]

What's the best explanation you've seen for the hyperspace jump not being used before? I've seen only a couple theories that seem plausible.

Because the Rebel fleet was extremely small and the Imperial fleet was immeasurably large. Suicide bombing Mon Cal cruisers and Corellian corvettes into Star Destroyers wouldn't end well for the Rebellion. They'd run out of ships a lot faster than the Empire would. The Holdo maneuver was only smart because the Raddus was out of fuel and was going to be destroyed or captured anyways, so fuck it.

If I have 10 ships and you have 1,000 ships and I start crashing all of my ships into yours, I'm going to end up with zero ships and you'll be left with 990.

The other example I've seen a lot of times is flying an X-wing through the Death Star. It wouldn't work. An X-wing flying a bazillion miles per hour at the Death Star is still going to be smashed to oblivion on the hull of said Death Start. Its speed is irrelevant. It's like saying you can blow up the Earth by shooting a bullet through the core. No, you can't. Because even at lightspeed, a bullet is (at best) just going to blast a small hole in the crust and get stuck a few hundred feet down (again, at best). The maneuver only worked because the Raddus was large enough in comparison to the Supremacy.

Flying an airplane into a building destroys the building (and the airplane). Flying a paper airplane into a building at lightspeed destroys the paper airplane but the building is unscathed.

ETA: All of this is ignoring special relativity. In Star Wars, light speed seems to mean something akin to "really really really really fast."

 

[ACamp1900]

No one went to see Solo because the Last Jedi was loathed by most people with a brain/who aren't Disney shills... and those people aren't going to open up their wallets as long as Disney continues in their current direction.

TLJ had a 46% audience score (despite a 91% from critics)... and rather than own the number of problems it had, the response has been -- literally -- to blame "sexism" and "white males" and everything but the fact that it had major plot holes and horrible characters.

I feel bad for JJ Abrams because he has a 0% chance of saving the next film regardless of how hard he tries. Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson killed all the institutional goodwill that existed for decades among Star Wars fans.

This all day... also either star destroyer situation.... light speed one cruiser... come on. TLJ destroyed the SW franchise irrevocably and it’s got nothing to do with “racist white males...”

 

[dublinirish]

lol the campaign to Remake the Last Jedi is so dumb i love it

 

[IrishLax]

The Rotten Tomatoes audience score is absolutely because of racism and sexism and white males. This is well documented.

I'm open to debate any alleged plot holes you think there might have been. I think there are plot problems (Canto Bight and Finn not dying chief among them), but not plot holes.

There are massive plot holes, and there is literally no explanation for the "light speed suicide" not having EVER been used before in the THOUSANDS of years it has existed if it was something you could plausibly do.

For example, every one of the cruisers that had been getting blown up when they ran out of fuel would've been better off just suiciding into an imperial vessel. Death Star? Fuck it, let's just light speed an x-wing into it. Want to blow up an entire fucking planet? Just have a droid light speed a cruiser into it.

I have to do work right now so I don't have time to type up a long laundry list, but it doesn't surprise me that you're going to defend that hot garbage. You are a Disney shill.

 

[IrishLax]

Because the Rebel fleet was extremely small and the Imperial fleet was immeasurably large. Suicide bombing Mon Cal cruisers and Corellian corvettes into Star Destroyers wouldn't end well for the Rebellion. They'd run out of ships a lot faster than the Empire would. The Holdo maneuver was only smart because the Raddus was out of fuel and was going to be destroyed or captured anyways, so fuck it.

If I have 10 ships and you have 1,000 ships and I start crashing all of my ships into yours, I'm going to end up with zero ships and you'll be left with 990.

The other example I've seen a lot of times is flying an X-wing through the Death Star. It wouldn't work. An X-wing flying a bazillion miles per hour at the Death Star is still going to be smashed to oblivion on the hull of said Death Start. Its speed is irrelevant. It's like saying you can blow up the Earth by shooting a bullet through the core. No, you can't. Because even at lightspeed, a bullet is (at best) just going to blast a small hole in the crust and get stuck a few hundred feet down (again, at best). The maneuver only worked because the Raddus was large enough in comparison to the Supremacy.

Flying an airplane into a building destroys the building (and the airplane). Flying a paper airplane into a building at lightspeed destroys the paper airplane but the building is unscathed.

ETA: All of this is ignoring special relativity. In Star Wars, light speed seems to mean something akin to "really really really really fast."

That's literally not how physics works. God this is so fucking dumb.

 

[wizards8507]

That's literally not how physics works. God this is so fucking dumb.

Did you read my last sentence? Star Wars physics is not real physics, but its rules are well established. Hyperspeed in Star Wars is just "really really really really fast."

"We could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"
- Han Solo in the first fucking Star Wars movie

You are a Disney shill.

Not at all. I hate Rogue One as much as you seem to hate TLJ.

 

[IrishLax]

Did you read my last sentence? Star Wars physics is not real physics, but its rules are well established. Hyperspeed in Star Wars is just "really really really really fast."

"We could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"
- Han Solo in the first fucking Star Wars movie

It's funny because you completely missed the point, which is that traveling "really, really fast" exerts a fuck ton of force even if it's a small object. Derpity derp.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I was a SW nut who slept out for the re-releases and saw Episode 1 over 10 times in the theater. I must have brought 20 people to see Episode VII and Rogue I (which I love).

The sexism stuff is so lazy.

Princess Leah took control of the men around her the second she came on screen in ANH. She was in charge of the base on Hoth, and by ROJ they revealed that another woman essentially led the whole rebellion.

Both Yoda and Darth Vadar acknowledged that Leah could be trained to replace Luke ("This boy is our last hope.... No there is another." "Perhaps if you won't turn, she will...")

Padme was supposed to be strong and assertive, but those movies were disasters.

Episode VII and Rogue were both led by female heroes.

So TLJ did not suddenly discover strong women. If you hated strong females taking charge and fighting, SW was never for you.

But, like everything else about TLJ, the feminist aspects of the plot were clunky and contrived. They were so, so clearly designed to please the right people (which they did), and annoy the wrong people (which they did). However, they just ended up boring most people, including myself. That movie SUCKED.

 

[wizards8507]

It's funny because you completely missed the point, which is that traveling "really, really fast" exerts a fuck ton of force even if it's a small object. Derpity derp.

The fuck ton of force doesn't matter because of the relative strengths of the hulls of the ships. The issue isn't the mass or the velocity, it's the fact that the fuckage in a collision between an X-wing and a Death Star is all going to be borne by the X-wing.

 

[Domina Nostra]

The fuck ton of force doesn't matter because of the relative strengths of the hulls of the ships. The issue isn't the mass or the velocity, it's the fact that the fuckage in a collision between an X-wing and a Death Star is all going to be borne by the X-wing.

But why wouldn't the rebellion have emptied out one of the cigar shaped transports, put a robot in it, and just kept it around to shoot at any significantly high value target, like the Death Star or a Super Star Destroyer? Maybe you put an asteroid in the middle to solve the mass problem. Doesn't seem hard.

That would be the first tactic you learned in space battles 101. It would be a huge deterrent from every flying a capital ship in at the beginning of a battle.

Any fleet without a few of them would be considered a joke.

 

[wizards8507]

But why wouldn't the rebellion have emptied out one of the cigar shaped transports, put a robot in it, and just kept it around to shoot at any significantly high value target, like the Death Star or a Super Star Destroyer?

Because the rebels have fewer cigar shaped transports than the Empire has capital ships. They can't be trading ships one-for-one, they need to get one-for-many value out of them.

 

[ACamp1900]

Because the rebels have fewer cigar shaped transports than the Empire has capital ships. They can't be trading ships one-for-one, they need to get one-for-many value out of them.

This is why you’re called a shill... one cruiser or risk EVERYTHING... the “winning scenario” was all but two of their x wing fleet while coming seconds from all of them dying... you always sacrifice the one cruiser or just fly one loaded d wing into the Death Star cannon... if one single shot in a shaft can trigger that, surely one whole x wing would at least disable it if not destroy it... a cruiser and it’s over.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Because the rebels have fewer cigar shaped transports than the Empire has capital ships. They can't be trading ships one-for-one, they need to get one-for-many value out of them.

Even taking that for granted, what does that have to do with the Death Star battles? Surely in that case they could spare one transport? They were willing to risk the whole fleet to take it down! They even had time to plan for the second battle.

And I didn't say you shoot it every time. But why wouldn't you have at least one ready in case a Super Star Destroyer or something came around?

 

[IrishLax]

The fuck ton of force doesn't matter because of the relative strengths of the hulls of the ships. The issue isn't the mass or the velocity, it's the fact that the fuckage in a collision between an X-wing and a Death Star is all going to be borne by the X-wing.

Again, not true. This is literally not true and not how things work. Unless your premise is that the metal used to make Ship A is for some unthinkable reason astronomically less dense than the metals used to Ship B ... because... I don't know, magic? ... that's not how this works.

If you were flying in a ship "really really fast" ... near light speed, for argument's sake... and ran into even a small rock it would do catastrophic damage. Same thing applies to small ship hitting a large ship, etc.

There are three massive issues with the idiotic plot point of a hyperspeed ramming in TLJ:
1. The idea that she was the first person ever to think about doing such a thing in a universe where hyperspeed has existed thousands upon thousand of years. It is beyond belief that "hyperspeed" and "hyperspace" have been around for thousands of years and no one was like "hmm what I tried to hyperspeed into this thing that is going to otherwise blow me up anyways?" I mean for fucks sake kamikaze runs have existed literally since people have been piloting things that fly.
1A. If you assume that this is possible and could've been done before... why not have a Corellian Corvette hyperspeed attack the Executor? That's a good trade of resources, period. Or if you're the Empire with a massive logistical and resource advantage, why not kamikaze literally every single Alliance capital ship? Why not have a droid pilot unmanned craft at "hyperspeed"? It literally doesn't make sense, at all.
1B. If the answer is "people haven't been doing this because of interdiction fields, etc." then why wouldn't the people in TLJ have those on? Again, any explanation one can come up with is beyond the pale.

2. "Hyperspace" has always been some sort of extra-dimensional space. The entire premise of it is that you can't do things like that. It's supposed to function as a sort of worm hole... not just "really really fast" travel.

3. Ignoring ALL of that... if this is something Holdo knew could be done AND it was totally legit and we accept it makes perfect sense... then why wouldn't they have every single capital ship that was running out of fuel do a similar suicide run!?!?

But please, shill more about it and how awesome it was and totally not a plot hole.

 

[IrishLax]

This is why you’re called a shill... one cruiser or risk EVERYTHING... the “winning scenario” was all but two of their x wing fleet while coming seconds from all of them dying... you always sacrifice the one cruiser or just fly one loaded d wing into the Death Star cannon... if one single shot in a shaft can trigger that, surely one whole x wing would at least disable it if not destroy it... a cruiser and it’s over.

He's being a clown, don't waste your time. His entire position is completely devoid of logic and embarrassing to anyone that knows anything about war or physics or even common sense.

Hell, there wouldn't even be a need for a Death Star in the first place if you could just "hyperspace" into stuff:

Step 1: Make a big ship with a hyperdrive.
Step 2: Use a droid to pilot it.
Step 3: Fly it into a planet and destroy it.

DERP.

 

[Rack Em]

He's being a clown, don't waste your time. His entire position is completely devoid of logic and embarrassing to anyone that knows anything about war or physics or even common sense.

Hell, there wouldn't even be a need for a Death Star in the first place if you could just "hyperspace" into stuff:

Step 1: Make a big ship with a hyperdrive.
Step 2: Use a droid to pilot it.
Step 3: Fly it into a planet and destroy it.

DERP.

 

[wizards8507]

This is why you’re called a shill... one cruiser or risk EVERYTHING... the “winning scenario” was all but two of their x wing fleet while coming seconds from all of them dying... you always sacrifice the one cruiser or just fly one loaded d wing into the Death Star cannon... if one single shot in a shaft can trigger that, surely one whole x wing would at least disable it if not destroy it... a cruiser and it’s over.

Yeah, maybe a cruiser can take out the Death Star? So what? Now you don't have that cruiser (one of maybe a dozen in your entire fleet) to fight the thousands of Star Destroyers that show up to ruin your day. The Death Star was ONE weapon. Killing it didn't do dick to stop the Empire.

 

[wizards8507]

Again, not true. This is literally not true and not how things work. Unless your premise is that the metal used to make Ship A is for some unthinkable reason astronomically less dense than the metals used to Ship B ... because... I don't know, magic? ... that's not how this works.

Yes, fucking magic. Absolutely magic. You're making hard SF arguments about a film franchise that isn't hard SF. It's not even soft SF.

3. Ignoring ALL of that... if this is something Holdo knew could be done AND it was totally legit and we accept it makes perfect sense... then why wouldn't they have every single capital ship that was running out of fuel do a similar suicide run!?!?

Because it was Holdo's idea! I don't understand this weird obsession people have with movie characters needing to exhibit flawless tactics and impeccable logic at all times. Holdo decided to sacrifice herself and she wasn't going to ask anyone else to do the same thing. It's not any more complicated than that.

 

[zelezo vlk]

The best explanation I've read is that hyperspace ramming is considered a heinous war crime, one that would lose the Rebellion a lot of support. Not sure how well that holds up though.