2018 Fall Camp Thread

[SoIll]

Bars
Mustipher
Need to see Gilman before I say him.
Maybe Tillery, but I doubt it

It doesn't matter if Kmet and Mack could start there. They'd be used less than they are now..

 

[IrishLion]

I love Kareem, but wasn’t he committed to Bama until they cooled on him? And I thought Coney, but Bama backers are just so good.

Bama is actually kind of thin and injury plagued at backer. Coney would have been a role player for sure, but I think he'd be starting for them after two unexpected departures, and a two-deep filled with relatively unproven guys.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Love would play. Start at corner? Nah probably not, but he could be a safety for them if this is their "reloading" year for that position.

 

[koonja]

How many would start on Michigan?

3 of their DL would start over ours, Tillery being the exception.

Would all their LBs? Would Coney start over Bush?

The secondary is a wash IMO, and that's being generous to ND.

 

[IrishLion]

How many would start on Michigan?

3 of their DL would start over ours, Tillery being the exception.

Would all their LBs? Would Coney start over Bush?

The secondary is a wash IMO, and that's being generous to ND.

Yeah but our whole offense would start over theirs, minus maybe the WR's. I'd probably call that a split, while admitting their young WR's have higher ceilings than Boykin while Claypool is capable of outplaying everyone based on physical talent.

I think there's an argument that Wimbush vs Patterson is a wash, because Wimbush has actually performed well against good teams, while Patterson folded like a lawn chair against the good defenses he played.

 

[Luckylucci]

How many would start on Michigan?

3 of their DL would start over ours, Tillery being the exception.

Would all their LBs? Would Coney start over Bush?

The secondary is a wash IMO, and that's being generous to ND.

FWIW. Tillery, Love, and Coney were more productive last year than their UM counterparts. Hill and Long don't even combine for as many passes defended as Love. Combined they have 13 to his 20. Combined they had 4 Int's to his 3. He had 68 tackles to their 44. He had 2 Td's to their zero. Statistically Love absolutely smashes either one of them, individually, and is pretty close to beating them both in all of those stats. Coney was better than Bush. Coney had 116, 11.5, and 3 to Bush's 95, 10, and 5. Tillery had 56, 9, 4.5 to Solomon's 16 tkls, and 2 TFLs, with 0 sacks.

Now granted Solomon didn't play much, but that's an advantage for Tillery. Plus, Coney didn't play as much as Bush, and still had better stats.

 

[NDMIA]

QB - Jalen Hurts, Tua Tagovailoa - Brandon Wimbush isn't as good
RB - Damien Harris, Josh Jacobs, Najee Harris - all better than anything we have
TE - Hale Hentges, Irv Smith Jr. - Irv Smith does what Brock Wright does. I think Cole Kmet is better than Hale Hentges so I think he'd start, Alize Mack would be valued by Bama for his blocking ability but I don't think he'd sniff a pass in his direction. Saban doesn't go for inconsistency. He's got too much talent for that
WR - Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, Devonta Taylor - I think Chase Claypool would be WR #4
OL - Jonah Williams, Lester Cotton, Ross Piersbacher, Alex Leatherwood, Jedrick Wills - Alex Bars at LG for Lester Cotton. Piersbacher & Mustipher are the #1 & #2 centers in college football so its a toss up.
DL - Raekwon Davis, Quinnen Williams, Isaiah Buggs - Jerry Tillery would probably be #4 or #5 and play a lot. As a 3-4, only ND's DT's qualify for their DLine and only Tillery could play for them right now
LB - Anfernee Jennings, Mack Wilson, Dylan Moses, Christian Miller - Coney would start over Moses in the fact that he has way more production during his career, but Moses might have more talent. Its a tough call. And our DE's which would be their OLB's need to get more than 3 sacks in a season to play for Bama.
CB - Trevon Diggs, Saivion Smith, Shyheim Carter - I think Julian Love would start over Saivion Smith but it would be a close competition. Troy Pride has amazing athleticism, but that's what every guy at Bama has so it wouldn't stick out as much in competition.
S - Xavier McKinney, Deionte Thompson - Love Alohi Gilman, but he's not starting for Bama
ST - Skyler DeLong (P), Joseph Bulovas (K) - Yoon & Newsome would be starting

In summary, I think Cole Kmet, Alex Bars, Te'Von Coney, Julian Love, Justin Yoon, and Tyler Newsome would start at Bama. Thoughts?

 

[koonja]

Yeah but our whole offense would start over theirs, minus maybe the WR's.

I think there's an argument that Wimbush vs Patterson is a wash, because Wimbush has actually performed well against good teams, while Patterson folded like a lawn chair against the good defenses he played.

I don't think any non-bias person would take Wimbush over Patterson. I'd take Patterson. Wimbush can run, and that has to be included, but so can Patterson. Not as well, but he can keep you honest at the very least. And he's a better runner than Wimbush is passer, if that makes any sense. Against good teams, Wimbush has been underwhelming as a passer.

Vs. MSU, Wimbush was 14/20 for 176 yards passing (90 QBR).

Vs. USC he was 9/19 for 120 yards passing (88 QBR).

Vs. NC State he was 10/19 for 104 yards passing (86 QBR).

Vs. Miami he was 10/21 for 119 yards passing (4 QBR).

Vs. Stanford he was 11/28 for 249 yards passing (39 QBR). 3 WRs averaged > 20 YPC in this game, which is why he actually had good yardage. Clearly the outlier.

Vs. LSU he was 3/8 with 52 yards passing (36 QBR).

 

[IrishLion]

I don't think any non-bias person would take Wimbush over Patterson. I'd take Patterson. Wimbush can run, and that has to be included, but so can Patterson. Against good teams, Wimbush has been underwhelming as a passer.

Vs. MSU, Wimbush was 14/20 for 176 yards passing (90 QBR).

Vs. USC he was 9/19 for 120 yards passing (88 QBR).

Vs. NC State he was 10/19 for 104 yards passing (86 QBR).

Vs. Miami he was 10/21 for 119 yards passing (4 QBR).

Vs. Stanford he was 11/28 for 249 yards passing (39 QBR). 3 WEs averaged > 20 YPC in this game, which is why he actually had good yardage. Clearly the outlier.

Vs. LSU he was 3/8 with 52 yards passing (36 QBR).

Except you can't really discount Wimbush's running ability, because that's a huge part of his game, and why him getting to even just 55% as a passer is a big deal this year.

I'd take Wimbush because of MSU and USC. We at least know his ceiling between passing/running makes our offense nearly unstoppable. Patterson can move a little, but he's not nearly the runner Wimbush is, and hasn't proven to be a high-level passer against any of the good defenses he's played.

That could change this year, of course, but Wimbush is a better overall player at the moment, or at least has proven to be so.

 

[ACamp1900]

How dafaq am I supposed to pretend to be the site's pessimistic jackass when koon is over here doing it for real!?!?!?

 

[NDohio]

How dafaq am I supposed to pretend to be the site's pessimistic jackass when koon is over here doing it for real!?!?!?

One of you has to go...

 

[IrishLax]

QB - Jalen Hurts, Tua Tagovailoa - Brandon Wimbush isn't as good
RB - Damien Harris, Josh Jacobs, Najee Harris - all better than anything we have
TE - Hale Hentges, Irv Smith Jr. - Irv Smith does what Brock Wright does. I think Cole Kmet is better than Hale Hentges so I think he'd start, Alize Mack would be valued by Bama for his blocking ability but I don't think he'd sniff a pass in his direction. Saban doesn't go for inconsistency. He's got too much talent for that
WR - Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, Devonta Taylor - I think Chase Claypool would be WR #4
OL - Jonah Williams, Lester Cotton, Ross Piersbacher, Alex Leatherwood, Jedrick Wills - Alex Bars at LG for Lester Cotton. Piersbacher & Mustipher are the #1 & #2 centers in college football so its a toss up.
DL - Raekwon Davis, Quinnen Williams, Isaiah Buggs - Jerry Tillery would probably be #4 or #5 and play a lot. As a 3-4, only ND's DT's qualify for their DLine and only Tillery could play for them right now
LB - Anfernee Jennings, Mack Wilson, Dylan Moses, Christian Miller - Coney would start over Moses in the fact that he has way more production during his career, but Moses might have more talent. Its a tough call. And our DE's which would be their OLB's need to get more than 3 sacks in a season to play for Bama.
CB - Trevon Diggs, Saivion Smith, Shyheim Carter - I think Julian Love would start over Saivion Smith but it would be a close competition. Troy Pride has amazing athleticism, but that's what every guy at Bama has so it wouldn't stick out as much in competition.
S - Xavier McKinney, Deionte Thompson - Love Alohi Gilman, but he's not starting for Bama
ST - Skyler DeLong (P), Joseph Bulovas (K) - Yoon & Newsome would be starting

In summary, I think Cole Kmet, Alex Bars, Te'Von Coney, Julian Love, Justin Yoon, and Tyler Newsome would start at Bama. Thoughts?

Sounds about right, though most of those guys are "toss ups"... at first blush I figured Mack/Kmet and Mustipher and Bars would be good candidates. Didn't even think about special teamers.

 

[IrishLax]

I don't think any non-bias person would take Wimbush over Patterson. I'd take Patterson. Wimbush can run, and that has to be included, but so can Patterson. Not as well, but he can keep you honest at the very least. And he's a better runner than Wimbush is passer, if that makes any sense. Against good teams, Wimbush has been underwhelming as a passer.

Vs. MSU, Wimbush was 14/20 for 176 yards passing (90 QBR).

Vs. USC he was 9/19 for 120 yards passing (88 QBR).

Vs. NC State he was 10/19 for 104 yards passing (86 QBR).

Vs. Miami he was 10/21 for 119 yards passing (4 QBR).

Vs. Stanford he was 11/28 for 249 yards passing (39 QBR). 3 WRs averaged > 20 YPC in this game, which is why he actually had good yardage. Clearly the outlier.

Vs. LSU he was 3/8 with 52 yards passing (36 QBR).

All three of those games were after he was hurt. There needs to be context.

 

[greyhammer90]

Using Wimbush's passing numbers during the USC game as a means to critique his game is the "miss the forest for the trees" of football analysis. USC had no answer for him and he broke their defensive back every time they thought they had him figured out. His passing numbers are never going to look good compared to air raid QBs from the Big 12. That's not the kind of QB he is and that's not the system the coaches have put around him (wisely). We are a power run, play-action team with a focus on timely chunk plays and avoiding turnovers under Wimbush. I don't know how that's going to go against Michigan, but I will say that if Wimbush turning into Baker Mayfield is your definition of success, prepare to be extremely disappointed.

Shea Patterson on the other hand, needs to be a pro-style QB who makes big throws and good decisions. He's not yet shown he can do that. We'll see if Harbaugh is really a QB guru come next Saturday.

 

[koonja]

All three of those games were after he was hurt. There needs to be context.

What was his injury? Everyone's "hurt" after week 4, as the saying goes.

I don't attribute him not being able to complete a 10 yard pass to pain/discomfort. Maybe I'm too conservative, but I just don't buy that, especially when everyone out there has bumps and bruises.

 

[Luckylucci]

And leaving out the rushing stats is such a minor league move. It's not like that's just some small part of the offense. He ran for 800 yards and 14 Td's.

Those 14 Td's went a long way in our offense being incredibly efficient in the RZ for 60% of the season. Coincidentally to Lax's point, post Wake Forest, those rushing numbers also came down quite a bit.

 

[koonja]

And leaving out the rushing stats is such a minor league move. It's not like that's just some small part of the offense. He ran for 800 yards and 14 Td's.

Those 14 Td's went a long way in our offense being incredibly efficient in the RZ for 60% of the season. Coincidentally to Lax's point, post Wake Forest, those rushing numbers also came down quite a bit.

To quote myself "Wimbush can run, and that has to be included".

Calling out something that's there is pony league.

 

[koonja]

I think you guys are in for an unpleasant surprise on Sept 1st.

Let's hope I'm the idiot and I'm in for a pleasant surprise.

 

[arrowryan]

I don't remember the last time I've read do many pessimistic posts leading up to the season. Why does it matter if our starters could/would start at Bama or Michigan? Alabama starters probably couldn't start at Notre Dame because they wouldn't survive a semester of Notre Dame academics.

I'll take our 11 offensive starters over Michigan's. I'll take Love/Pride over Michigan's corners every day of the week. And give me Coney over Bush as well. How productive Coney was in limited snaps last year is not talked about enough.

 

[arrowryan]

I think you guys are in for an unpleasant surprise on Sept 1st.

Let's hope I'm the idiot and I'm in for a pleasant surprise.

Elaborate on this, please. Clearly, it looks like you're predicting a Notre Dame loss. Are you predicting something like 17-13 or something like 35-7?

I think the chances of Notre Dame losing are real. With that being said, I like Notre Dame's chances in this game more than I did in the UGA game.

This isn't just for you Koon, but this Negative Nancy attitude/vibe is coming from everywhere and it came out of nowhere. I think it is undeserved.

 

[IrishLax]

What was his injury? Everyone's "hurt" after week 4, as the saying goes.

I don't attribute him not being able to complete a 10 yard pass to pain/discomfort. Maybe I'm too conservative, but I just don't buy that, especially when everyone out there has bumps and bruises.

I'm not going to get in to debating the extent of injury. I know you know people who know things, so just go ask them if Brandon Wimbush was significantly injured after Wake.

He turned into a pumpkin for the last third of the season, and lots of people like to act like this was some bizarre random happenstance. That he just mentally folded for no apparent reason. Just consider these two facts --

1. He leaves Wake game with injury.
2. He has three of his four worst QBR performances ... the other being Georgia ... in the span after. Before that six of his eight games he had an adjusted QBR of 80+.

You take those two things together and the obvious conclusion is that his injury affected him. It took away his aggressiveness running the ball, it hurt his ability handling the ball, and it hurt his decision making.

He's not an accurate thrower and has a ton of other flaws, but so much of the narrative about his "regression" misses the forest for the trees. Same thing with Josh Adams. You had guys not even close to 100% being asked to shoulder the load... part of that is bad coaching.

 

[Luckylucci]

To quote myself "Wimbush can run, and that has to be included".

Calling out something that's there is pony league.

That’s exactly the point. Saying he can run, doesn’t even come close to justifying those stats. Which is probably why they were left out. 800 and 14 isn’t “he can run”. It’s “he’s an elite playmaker when he’s running”.

 

[koonja]

That’s exactly the point. Saying he can run, doesn’t even come close to justifying those stats. Which is probably why they were left out. 800 and 14 isn’t “he can run”. It’s “he’s an elite playmaker when he’s running”.

He's a great runner, no denying that.

But I think people remember the total package of the "big games" and think he actually showed up as a passer in them, too.

Even in the games people point to to show he played great, it was because of his legs. He hasn't had a "great passing game" against a "good team", ever.

MSU was good, but it was still only 176 yards passing.

 

[koonja]

Elaborate on this, please. Clearly, it looks like you're predicting a Notre Dame loss. Are you predicting something like 17-13 or something like 35-7?

I think the chances of Notre Dame losing are real. With that being said, I like Notre Dame's chances in this game more than I did in the UGA game.

This isn't just for you Koon, but this Negative Nancy attitude/vibe is coming from everywhere and it came out of nowhere. I think it is undeserved.

I think Michigan wins. I don't think we'll get embarrassed, but I think they'll win comfortably. Probably by 10 points.

And this is the "most athletic", "deepest", "best defense" BK has ever had. And IMO we'll start out 0-1 against a team we joke about and laugh at their 8-5 record last year.

If we win I'll gladly be the board idiot, but I think joke's on us considering how many of members on here discount Michigan's talent and amplify ours.

 

[condoms SUCk]

Using Wimbush's passing numbers during the USC game as a means to critique his game is the "miss the forest for the trees" of football analysis. USC had no answer for him and he broke their defensive back every time they thought they had him figured out. His passing numbers are never going to look good compared to air raid QBs from the Big 12. That's not the kind of QB he is and that's not the system the coaches have put around him (wisely). We are a power run, play-action team with a focus on timely chunk plays and avoiding turnovers under Wimbush. I don't know how that's going to go against Michigan, but I will say that if Wimbush turning into Baker Mayfield is your definition of success, prepare to be extremely disappointed.

Shea Patterson on the other hand, needs to be a pro-style QB who makes big throws and good decisions. He's not yet shown he can do that. We'll see if Harbaugh is really a QB guru come next Saturday.

ohhhhh yeahhhh, keep talking dirty to me.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I love Kareem, but wasn’t he committed to Bama until they cooled on him? And I thought Coney, but Bama backers are just so good.

Did Alabama cool on Kareem and push him out? I thought it was more Kareem got cold feet as time went on and wanted to stay closer to home?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Domina Nostra]

Alize Mack, because he would have lived up to his potential.
Alohi Gilman, because he’s the sort of three star who becomes an All-American at Bama.

Alabama fans universally admit that it recently failed to develop and fully-utilize one of the most athletic TEs in recent history: OJ Howard.

I remember in 2012 this same question was asked. And we listed like 8 guys that would start.

No way was that close to accurate. Teo wasn't even the best MLB on the field, IMO.

There were a lot of starters that could have--not guaranteeing they would have, but they were similar quality. Think of it this way, if you had switched out those Alabama starters for these ND starters, would Alabama have really suffered? No. Would ND have been better off with, say, Kevin Norwood over TJ Jones. No.

It is was the huge holes in the starting line-up on OL, the overall depth, Amari Cooper against our safeties, and the excellence/execution of AL's OLine unit (blocking for Eddie Lacey), that killed us.

This is how I see it:

Offense:
QB: Toss-up - Everett Golson/AJ McCarron (its easy to hate 2014 Golson, but 2012 was dynamic, and McCarron was nothing special on any offense that didn't have Eddie Lacey and Amari Cooper)
RB: AL - Eddie Lacey (over Theo Riddick...but Riddick over Yeldon/Fowler)
WR1: AL - Amari Cooper (Over TJ Jones)
WR2: ND - TJ Jones (Over Christion Jones)
WR3: Toss-up- DaVaris Daniels/Kevin Norwood
TE: ND - Tyler Eifert (over Michael Williams)
LT- ND : Zach Martin (over Cyrus Kouandjio)
LG: AL: Chance Warmack (over Chris Watt)
AL- Barrett Jones (over Chris Watt, but barely)
RG: AL: D.J. Fluker (over Chris Watt)
RT: AL: Cyrus Kouandjio (over Lombard)

Defense:
DE: ND - Stephon Tuitt (over Ed Stinson, Jr.)
NT: ND - Louis Nix (over Jesse Williams, Sr.)
DE: AL- Damion Square/Stinson (over KLM...probably)
OLB: AL- Adrian Hubbard (over Prince Shembo)
Mike: ND- Manti T'eo (over Trey DePiest)
Will: AL- C.J. Mosley, Jr. (over Dan Fox)
OLB: Al- Xavier Dixon (over Danny Spond)
CB1: AL- Dee Milliner (over Bennett Jackson/KeiVarae Russell)
CB: ND- Jackson/Russell (over Deion Belue, Jr).
SS: AL - Robert Lester (over Zeke Motta)
FS: AL - Haha Clinton-Dix (over Matthias Farley)

Special Teams:
KO: ND- Kyle Brindza (over Jeremy Shelley)
P: AL - Cody Mandell (over Ben Turk)
PR: AL- Christion Jones (over DaVonte Neal)
KR: AL- Christion Jones (over George Attkinson Jr.)

 

[Ndaccountant]

He's a great runner, no denying that.

But I think people remember the total package of the "big games" and think he actually showed up as a passer in them, too.

Even in the games people point to to show he played great, it was because of his legs. He hasn't had a "great passing game" against a "good team", ever.

MSU was good, but it was still only 176 yards passing.

B/C the offense clearly needed 300 passing yards that day.....good grief that is a lame point. If memory serves, he had something like 5 passes in the second half after ND was up by 3 TD's at half. He controlled the game, which is the point.

I agree with you, there are concerns with how he finished the year, injury or otherwise. But don't try and cherry pick (misleading) stats to try and window dress an argument

 

[arrowryan]

I think Michigan wins. I don't think we'll get embarrassed, but I think they'll win comfortably. Probably by 10 points.

And this is the "most athletic", "deepest", "best defense" BK has ever had. And IMO we'll start out 0-1 against a team we joke about and laugh at their 8-5 record last year.

If we win I'll gladly be the board idiot, but I think joke's on us considering how many of members on here discount Michigan's talent and amplify ours.

I think people make jokes about Michigan because they are our biggest rival (IMO), not because people truly think they are bad. At the same time, Michigan arguably has more question marks than Notre Dame does. Notre Dame won 10 games and was consistently blowing teams out of the water, including a really good SC team, with a quarterback that couldn't throw. I can only imagine what it will look like when he completes just 60% of his passes.

I see this game being a defensive game. Whoever hits 20 points first probably wins. If one offense breaks out, I'm going to say it will be Notre Dame. Comparing offenses, I think Notre Dame has more athletes. We'll see though; thats why they play the game.

 

[jspags10pg]

I think Michigan wins. I don't think we'll get embarrassed, but I think they'll win comfortably. Probably by 10 points.

And this is the "most athletic", "deepest", "best defense" BK has ever had. And IMO we'll start out 0-1 against a team we joke about and laugh at their 8-5 record last year.

If we win I'll gladly be the board idiot, but I think joke's on us considering how many of members on here discount Michigan's talent and amplify ours.

I kind of agree with this. I don't want to agree but I do.