2016 Presidential Horse Race

[wizards8507]

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[IrishLax]

I get pkt's point but I have long hated the idea of 'paying for tax cuts'... to me that implies that our money is really the govs to begin with and I think that's the wrong way to look at it from the word 'go'.

Yup. Tax cuts don't cost anything... they just (likely) impact the revenue stream of the Government. What costs money are Government services.

 

[Wild Bill]

You and RDU have both said that, but I would point out, where were the protests when Bush was in office? Where was the vitriol? While Conservatives might have disliked it, they also weren't complaining super loudly about it.

Off the top of my head (trying to remember from a few years ago)

Corporate Tax deduction for stock options
Vacation Home/2nd home mortgage interest deduction
It has been a long time since I took accounting, but can't companies write off the cost of moving operations abroad?
Carried Interest being treated as capital gains.

I could probably think of a few more as well but this is a good starting point.

I think we could agree conservative radio is the "loudest" conservative voice with respect to the media. They destroy everyone that smells like a RINO. Bush was no exception. Conservative voters complained or voiced their displeasure by not voting for the RINOs. Agree to disagree here.


Relatively speaking, closing those loopholes will not bring the treasury much of a return. They lose their ass on the mortgage interest deduction, health insurance deduction and retirement contributions. Doubt those are closed (nor should they be).

 

[pkt77242]

Yea...funny, but they never feel inclined to apply that 'paying' logic to a new "program"...

Not to mention their odd brand of "truth" and "math" to support what they want...

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Lets see, the War in Iraq, Medicare Part D (The worst part is that Medicare can't even negotiate drug prices, talk about a handout to pharmaceutical companies) and Bush's Tax cuts spring to mind in a few seconds. Republicans have the same long history of not paying for their expenditures either. To single out one party is laughable as they both do it.

I believe that most things should be "paid" for at the time of passage (paid is in "" because the bill should describe how it will be paid for such as a revenue increase or by cutting spending from another program or we should be running a surplus). There are exceptions such as natural disasters or a needed war (not Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, etc.) such as if a country attacks us.

 

[RDU Irish]

Yet you continue to throw rocks......

 

[ACamp1900]

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Lets see, the War in Iraq, Medicare Part D (The worst part is that Medicare can't even negotiate drug prices, talk about a handout to pharmaceutical companies) and Bush's Tax cuts spring to mind in a few seconds. Republicans have the same long history of not paying for their expenditures either. To single out one party is laughable as they both do it.

agreed on just about every talking point we all tend to complain about here though there are shades of major grey on some issues, and the Republican party sucks ass... no disagreement there either...

 

[pkt77242]

Yet you continue to throw rocks......

Did you not see that I said that both parties do it. To single one out for the behavior is laughable. Not really throwing rocks, just pointing out the hypocrisy of the comment to which I was responding. Again both parties do it. Both parties are the problem.

 

[pkt77242]

I think we could agree conservative radio is the "loudest" conservative voice with respect to the media. They destroy everyone that smells like a RINO. Bush was no exception. Conservative voters complained or voiced their displeasure by not voting for the RINOs. Agree to disagree here.


Relatively speaking, closing those loopholes will not bring the treasury much of a return. They lose their ass on the mortgage interest deduction, health insurance deduction and retirement contributions. Doubt those are closed (nor should they be).

While I agree that those won't get a huge return (relatively), I came up with that list in under 10 minutes. I am sure that there are many more out there that could/should be closed as well.

How about Punitive damages deduction. It is crazy that when a company gets fined by the government that they can write it off.

Also I think that we need to do something about overseas tax shelters for companies. Maybe offering a chance to repatriate money from overseas at a reduced amount?

Also things like this bother me, and yes I get how they can legally do it under the tax code.
Forest Laboratories' Globe-Trotting Profits - Businessweek

 

[BGIF]

Hillary Clinton breaks with Obama on 'Cadillax tax' - CNN.com

Errol Lewis 9/30/15

Hillary Clinton crossed a political Rubicon by announcing she supports a partial repeal of Obamacare, openly distancing herself from what is far and away the marquee domestic policy initiative of the sitting president. The move will bolster Clinton's support from big labor unions, a critical part of the Democratic Party establishment -- but with it she also risks alienating the President and losing the votes of Obama supporters concerned about protecting his legacy.

At issue is the so-called "Cadillac Tax" on health insurance plans, a provision of Obamacare that takes effect on New Year's Day in 2018. On that date, insurance plans will get socked with a 40% excise tax on every dollar in insurance premiums above $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family plan.

The money raised from the tax -- an estimated $87 billion -- is essential to paying the cost of the Affordable Care Act. The tax also gives companies an incentive to shop more carefully for health plans instead of loading on benefits.

But the tax would hit the comprehensive health plans negotiated by unions over the years, giving companies an incentive to limit or terminate health benefits -- or pass the extra costs on to employees -- rather than pay the tax.

The typical family insurance plan costs about $16,000, so most employees would initially be spared: the levy would initially apply to an estimated 14% of all health plans at companies with 500 or more employees. Because the threshold for activating the text are pegged to inflation, that number is expected to steadily grow, by one estimate to 47% of all plans by 2023 and 65% of all plans by 2028, according to a study sited in The New York Times.

Labor leaders have opposed the tax for years; in 2013, the AFL-CIO passed a resolution at its annual convention, promising that the labor federation "will strongly oppose taxing workers' health benefits." The same resolution called for removing the tax from the Affordable Care Act.

Clinton's Democratic rivals for president, Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley, have already called for a repeal of the tax. Clinton, anxious to lock down labor support, had little choice but to join adopt the union's position.

"I encourage Congress to repeal the so-called Cadillac tax, which applies to some employer-based health plans, and to fully pay for the cost of repeal," Clinton said in a statement.

But that's sure to draw fire from Obama loyalists. "After decades of fighting for it, we're finally moving towards a more rational, efficient health care system. Let's not screw that up," writes Jared Bernstein, a former Obama administration economist who now runs the Center for American Progress think tank.

Bernstein also issued a challenge to opponents: "Anyone who wants to kill the tax has some explaining to do... what's your alternative revenue raiser?"

That a good question -- one that puts the burden on Clinton--and Sanders and O'Malley, for that matter -- to find tens of billions of dollars a year to defray the cost of Obamacare. Her recently-announced promise to squeeze savings out of other parts of the health care system drew a caustic response from, among others, the Washington Post editorial board.

"It's hard to say which would be more discouraging," wrote the Post, "that Ms. Clinton knows this is a poor policy call and made it to appease politically influential unions, or that she doesn't know this is a bad choice."

Clinton can expect more such criticism in the months ahead. She made the logical short-term calculation that she needed to gather union support -- but that choice will draw fire from a wide range of left-leaning Obama supporters that fought the bitter battle to get Obamacare passed.

If Vice President Joe Biden jumps into the race, expect him to be the No. 1 White House warrior calling Clinton out for trying to unravel the long-sought goal of providing health care for all.

 

[phgreek]

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Lets see, the War in Iraq, Medicare Part D (The worst part is that Medicare can't even negotiate drug prices, talk about a handout to pharmaceutical companies) and Bush's Tax cuts spring to mind in a few seconds. Republicans have the same long history of not paying for their expenditures either. To single out one party is laughable as they both do it.

I believe that most things should be "paid" for at the time of passage (paid is in "" because the bill should describe how it will be paid for such as a revenue increase or by cutting spending from another program or we should be running a surplus). There are exceptions such as natural disasters or a needed war (not Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, etc.) such as if a country attacks us.

I won't disagree on principle that both parties have had expenditures they did not pay for...you would be uncommon in the liberal crowd, in my experience. Regardless, what was lied about / misrepresented in the lead up to Medicare Part D, and the Bush Tax cuts???...I do not recall a Jonathan Gruber or anything on the scale of the decption employed to pass ACA...It is debatable regarding the Iraq war...most people who do not regularly don a tin foil hat believe Mr. Bush got bad intel...hilarious how smart "20/20 hindsight liberals" got after the Iraq war became unpopular...

 

[pkt77242]

I won't disagree on principle that both parties have had expenditures they did not pay for...you would be uncommon in the liberal crowd, in my experience. Regardless, what was lied about / misrepresented in the lead up to Medicare Part D, and the Bush Tax cuts???...I do not recall a Jonathan Gruber or anything on the scale of the decption employed to pass ACA...It is debatable regarding the Iraq war...most people who do not regularly don a tin foil hat believe Mr. Bush got bad intel...hilarious how smart "20/20 hindsight liberals" got after the Iraq war became unpopular...

Not talking about the Intel.

The projections: Ahead of and shortly after the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, a number of officials, including former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his deputy Paul Wolfowitz suggested the war could be done on the cheap and that it would largely pay for itself. In October 2003, Rumsfeld told a press conference about President Bush's request for $21 billion for Iraq and Afghan reconstruction that "the $20 billion the president requested is not intended to cover all of Iraq's needs. The bulk of the funds for Iraq's reconstruction will come from Iraqis -- from oil revenues, recovered assets, international trade, direct foreign investment, as well as some contributions we've already received and hope to receive from the international community." In March 2003, Mr. Wolfowitz told Congress that "we're really dealing with a country that could finance its own reconstruction." In April 2003, the Pentagon said the war would cost about $2 billion a month, and in July of that year Rumsfeld increased that estimate to $4 billion.

What happened? The Iraq war cost about $800 billion, or about $7.6 billion a month. When long term benefits are paid out connected with the death and injury of US troops there, the number is expected to rise to about $1 trillion, or about $9.5 billion a month. About $60 billion was spent directly on Iraq reconstruction efforts.

Iraq war: Predictions made, and results - CSMonitor.com

That is a bald face lie (not by you but by Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz).

 

[phgreek]

Not talking about the Intel.



Iraq war: Predictions made, and results - CSMonitor.com

That is a bald face lie (not by you but by Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz).

No...its a bald face miscalculation...that should get folks FIRED, shamed, belittled. Unless/Until you produce a "Gruber" who tells us he/she was there and the intent was to force the Iraq war through by continual, systematic deceit of congress and the American people....the difference is pretty significant to me. These are not the same things.

 

[connor_in]

Hillary: I'm the Most Transparent Person in American History | The Weekly Standard

 

[BGIF]

I have gone further than anybody that I'm aware of in American history," Clinton said of the release of her emails. "Now it's not a long history since we haven't had emails that long--as long as we've had them, I've gone longer and farther to be as transparent as possible. Nobody else has done that.

Liar, Liar, pants suit on fire!

 

[ACamp1900]

Lol... The lack of respect for the intelligence of the American public is shocking at times...

 

[connor_in]

<iframe src="https://vine.co/v/e2grP9L5qet/embed/simple" width="600" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe><script src="https://platform.vine.co/static/scripts/embed.js"></script>

 

[phgreek]

Hillary: I'm the Most Transparent Person in American History | The Weekly Standard

In terms of actual motivation...Yea, I'd agree. In terms of conducting THE PEOPLE's business...Spit take.

 

[pkt77242]

Ben Carson says the darndest things - CNNPolitics.com

Ben Carson breaks with Jeb Bush over Voting Rights Act - CNNPolitics.com

 

[West Coast Domer]

Ben Carson says the darndest things - CNNPolitics.com

Ben Carson breaks with Jeb Bush over Voting Rights Act - CNNPolitics.com

For being a highly educated man Ben Carson says some of the strangest things. He should just stick to being a successful neurosurgeon.

 

[kmoose]

For being a highly educated man Ben Carson says some of the strangest things.

Like what?

 

[BGIF]

For being a highly educated man Ben Carson says some of the strangest things. He should just stick to being a successful neurosurgeon.

So you want a Muslim president governing the U.S. under Sharia Law?

I remember Democrats screaming about the papist in 1960. Carson isn't screaming nor anti-muslim. He just wants the U.S. President to follow U.S. law.

It would be refreshing.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

So you want a Muslim president governing the U.S. under Sharia Law?

I remember Democrats screaming about the papist in 1960. Carson isn't screaming nor anti-muslim. He just wants the U.S. President to follow U.S. law.

It would be refreshing.

The crap Carson has taken is weak and petty because the left fears him as a candidate. Big time. He said there are aspects of Sharia Law that don't line up with our Constitution, and he is exactly right. My guess is the women and homosexuals in the US would be the first to agree with him.

 

[West Coast Domer]

Like what?

Maybe saying things like that many prisoners who go into jail straight come out as gay. Today he said if Germans had guns Hitler chances of genocide would have been reduced.

 

[West Coast Domer]

So you want a Muslim president governing the U.S. under Sharia Law?

I remember Democrats screaming about the papist in 1960. Carson isn't screaming nor anti-muslim. He just wants the U.S. President to follow U.S. law.

It would be refreshing.

Never said that

 

[kmoose]

Maybe saying things like that many prisoners who go into jail straight come out as gay.

Yeah, that's pretty out there.

Today he said if Germans had guns Hitler chances of genocide would have been reduced.

So you don't think an armed populace reduces the odds of a government practicing genocide? Not that it guarantees it won't happen, but that it simply reduces the odds of it?

I don't find that idea strange at all

 

[BGIF]

Never said that

You didn't say anything except the broad brush swipe. That's why I asked the question.

 

[Cackalacky]

Like what?

The earth is 6000 years old, the big bang is a fairy tale, and evolution is because it is fom the devil trying to trick us..... oh and my personal favorite....ISIS is like the founding fathers, without the wigs.

I am not scared of Carson because of his political stances but because, legitimately... he ignores a large part of reality. He is very literally half crazy and regarding some aspects of society has the mentality of a child.

 

[IrishinSyria]

The earth is 6000 years old, the big bang is a fairy tale, and evolution is because it is fom the devil trying to trick us..... oh and my personal favorite....ISIS is like the founding fathers, without the wigs.

I am not scared of Carson because of his political stances but because, legitimately... he ignores a large part of reality. He is very literally half crazy and regarding some aspects of society has the mentality of a child.

My charitable version is that he knows exactly what he's doing and that's playing to his base.

 

[IrishinSyria]

No...its a bald face miscalculation...that should get folks FIRED, shamed, belittled. Unless/Until you produce a "Gruber" who tells us he/she was there and the intent was to force the Iraq war through by continual, systematic deceit of congress and the American people....the difference is pretty significant to me. These are not the same things.

Discredited would be the word I would choose. Especially when years later the same folks started showing up and arguing that the US could invade Iran and then Syria on the cheap.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Ben Carson insisted Sunday that for a Muslim to become president of the United States, "you have to reject the tenets of Islam."

"Yes, you have to," the retired neurosurgeon and Republican presidential candidate said Sunday in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union."

His latest criticism of Islam came the week after he'd said he "would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation."

"I would have problems with somebody who embraced all the doctrines associated with Islam," Carson said. "If they are not willing to reject sharia and all the portions of it that are talked about in the Quran -- if they are not willing to reject that, and subject that to American values and the Constitution, then of course, I would."

The tenants of Islam are:

1. Prayer
2. Public statement of belief
3. Charity
4. Haj
5. Fasting

Not sure what one of those you'd want to reject.