2016 Presidential Horse Race

[zelezo vlk]

I mean, that just can't happen. Why would they make it the same name?

 

[Cackalacky]

If I immigrated legally - I would be pissed at those that do so illegally. Especially if I shared the same ethnic make-up which resulted in a lot of folks questioning my legality. Solve the illegal immigration policy and the "bigotry" problem goes away. Really cannot comprehend people that can't draw that very simple conclusion.

Yeah no I dont see that as even being remotely accurate. Not sure how you can even jump to this conclusion, if in fact it is that simple, which its not.

 

[Cackalacky]

Sorry, why is that a scary thing?


There are 48 dead people in Orlando who have a pretty good idea.

So committing mass murder is un-american? Hmmm seems legit. Seems like we already have a nebulous term for that which is still confusing and non-limiting... what is that word I am thinking of.... it starts with a "t"....


nope drawing a blank.

 

[wizards8507]

So committing mass murder is un-american? Hmmm seems legit. Seems like we already have a nebulous term for that which is still confusing and non-limiting... what is that word I am thinking of.... it starts with a "t"....

nope drawing a blank.

ISIS affiliation is unamerican. I have no idea what Newt was talking about because he's 5% brilliant and 95% cuckoo bird, but I'm 100% fine with a House committee that investigates ISIS sympathizers in the United States.

 

[RDU Irish]

Yeah no I dont see that as even being remotely accurate. Not sure how you can even jump to this conclusion, if in fact it is that simple, which its not.

So people would still make assumptions that people are here illegally if we had a system that decently documented everyone's legal presence in our country? Or are you just assuming everyone is blindly bigoted?

 

[zelezo vlk]

So committing mass murder is un-american? Hmmm seems legit. Seems like we already have a nebulous term for that which is still confusing and non-limiting... what is that word I am thinking of.... it starts with a "t"....


nope drawing a blank.

Triggering? It's official, Cack says that triggering others makes you a damn pinko sunofabitch.

 

[RDU Irish]

ISIS affiliation is unamerican. I have no idea what Newt was talking about because he's 5% brilliant and 95% cuckoo bird, but I'm 100% fine with a House committee that investigates ISIS sympathizers in the United States.

My only problem is that is damn well better be redundant and unnecessary b/c FBI or someone is already all over it.

 

[wizards8507]

So people would still make assumptions that people are here illegally if we had a system that decently documented everyone's legal presence in our country? Or are you just assuming everyone is blindly bigoted?

Right. People have a problem with illegal immigrants, not with "brown people." Their bigotry, such as it is, is not in hating brown people for being brown, but in assuming that brown people are all illegal immigrants.

I'm not saying that's better, just... different.

 

[wizards8507]

Trump is back on Twitter! And he's Presidential AF.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Love the fact that the small groups of protesters last night have passion for our great country. We will all come together and be proud!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/797034721075228672">November 11, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's an absolutely BRILLIANT tweet. No italics. The subtext is delicious.

 

[Cackalacky]

ISIS affiliation is unamerican. I have no idea what Newt was talking about because he's 5% brilliant and 95% cuckoo bird, but I'm 100% fine with a House committee that investigates ISIS sympathizers in the United States.

Since we cant even clearly define what a terrorist is you think we would be able to clearly define un-american activities well enough to limit those investigative powers? You dont see how this is so obviously a Neo-McCarthyist stance?

 

[RDU Irish]

Right. People have a problem with illegal immigrants, not with "brown people." Their bigotry, such as it is, is not in hating brown people for being brown, but in assuming that brown people are all illegal immigrants.

I'm not saying that's better, just... different.

And cause meet effect. I think it is a solvable problem as a result. The ultimate irony being the same people hating on Trump will have him to thank when they are not stereotyped as illegals due to the color of their skin anymore.

If you kids never hate you, you aren't doing your job.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Since we cant even clearly define what a terrorist is you think we would be able to clearly define un-american activities well enough to limit those investigative powers? You dont see how this is so obviously a Neo-McCarthyist stance?

C'mon...when has something like this ever gotten out of hand?

 

[zelezo vlk]

C'mon...when has something like this ever gotten out of hand?

 

[wizards8507]

Since we cant even clearly define what a terrorist is you think we would be able to clearly define un-american activities well enough to limit those investigative powers? You dont see how this is so obviously a Neo-McCarthyist stance?

SENATOR Joe McCarthy had nothing to do with the HOUSE Unamerican Activities Committee, first of all.

Second of all, obviously anything of this sort would be subject to the appropriate constitutional limitations, yada yada. That goes without saying.

Third of all, there were actual communists infiltrating the government and other American institutions during the Cold War. It's not a witch hunt when the witches are real.

 

[Cackalacky]

And cause meet effect. I think it is a solvable problem as a result. The ultimate irony being the same people hating on Trump will have him to thank when they are not stereotyped as illegals due to the color of their skin anymore.

If you kids never hate you, you aren't doing your job.

 

[wizards8507]

This video is amazing. Look at the rage in Trump's eyes. This video could be a Marvel movie about the origins of a supervillain.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZYuII4HrzE0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[NDohio]

Trump is back on Twitter! And he's Presidential AF.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Love the fact that the small groups of protesters last night have passion for our great country. We will all come together and be proud!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/797034721075228672">November 11, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's an absolutely BRILLIANT tweet. No italics. The subtext is delicious.

Too bad this one preceded that tweet.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/796900183955095552">November 11, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[BobbyMac]

Pretty sure

1) This is explicitly against the law. Lots of extra hedging around presidential protection and
2) The SS investigates this, not the FBI. The SS investigates somewhat aggressively.

She is British so it depends on what their law is and the level of cooperation they give the Secret Service. I'd have to believe she'll at least get a talking to.

She/The Guardian knows trouble is on the way, the Twitter account went from standard, to protected, to closed in a day.

 

[wizards8507]

Too bad this one preceded that tweet.

Ben Shapiro's podcast has a little ditty they play: "Good Trump, bad Trump... which one will we get today?"

I expect to sing it to myself many times over the next four years.

 

[Cackalacky]

SENATOR Joe McCarthy had nothing to do with the HOUSE Unamerican Activities Committee, first of all.

Is this something I said? Nope.

Second of all, obviously anything of this sort would be subject to the appropriate constitutional limitations, yada yada. That goes without saying.

I did in fact use ther term McCathyist stance. The definition of McCarthyism is:

McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion or treason without proper regard for evidence.It also means "the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism."

So of course its totally unreasonable to think that a McCarthyist style witchhunt such as "UN-American Activites" would be limited by constitutional protections as it is inherently performed with disregard of such. SMH

Third of all, there were actual communists infiltrating the government and other American institutions during the Cold War. It's not a witch hunt when the witches are real.

Ok.....So if they are Americans they are protected by the Constitution. If they are not Americans they would be treated as terrorists I assume and handled appropriately. What is the necessity of such an office?

 

[wizards8507]

Ok.....So if they are Americans they are protected by the Constitution. If they are not Americans they would be treated as terrorists I assume and handled appropriately. What is the necessity of such an office?

That's like saying the Orlando Police Department exists, so why do we need the Orange County Sheriff's Department? Or the Florida State Police? Or the FBI? Or the Department of Justice?

Sometimes investigative institutions fail, either due to lack of resources or because the institution itself has been compromised.

 

[kmoose]

Is it inconceivable to you that a certain portion of the population that is excessively exposed to "law enforcement" could develop a reasonable assessment of their reality as having been systematically harassed?

I mean as an extreme example, when the Nazis made very discriminatory laws that affected Jews, where they not harrassed by law enforcement?

If the laws are discriminatory, much like our current drug laws that disproportionately affect a specific demographic, then it has significant bearing on the perception of those on whom the law is being enforced. It is entirely possible that a law justly written by the majority can in fact be a discriminatory law affecting a minority, thusly producing a reaction by the minority.

The laws are NOT discriminatory. More college graduates are arrested for white collar crimes than people without a college education. Does that make white collar laws discriminatory against the educated?

 

[Bluto]

How is enforcing the law "systematic harassment"?

It was the selective nature. People were selectively targeted and even detained for immigration enforcement based on nothing other than being Hispanic. That's pretty much the definition of systematic harassment.

 

[Cackalacky]

That's like saying the Orlando Police Department exists, so why do we need the Orange County Sheriff's Department? Or the Florida State Police? Or the FBI? Or the Department of Justice?

Sometimes investigative institutions fail, either due to lack of resources or because the institution itself has been compromised.

No its absolutely not. American citizens who commit crimes are protected by the constitution and allowed access to such provisions per each state in which the crime was committed. De-fine an un-american activitiy (LOL) that would not be either subject to laws established by the Constitution or as an enemy combatant (lol).

So know we pivot to redundnacy....Am I to believe that you, the champion of SMALL government that, you would be acceptable of a cabinet level federal group that's whole existence is redundant to State and local governments, the DOJ, and FBI for American Citizens, or redundant to terrorist departments such as DHS and the CIA, NSA?
As progressive as I am that is completely ridiculous.

 

[wizards8507]

It was the selective nature. People were selectively targeted for immigration enforcement based on being Hispanic.

Which of the following is your point:

1. Hispanic citizens were asked to provide documentation of their citizenship?, or...

2. Hispanic non-citizens got busted and that's not fair.

 

[Cackalacky]

The laws are NOT discriminatory. More college graduates are arrested for white collar crimes than people without a college education. Does that make white collar laws discriminatory against the educated?

Laws most certainly can be and are discriminatory. As well as implementation of laws. Are all laws? No. But thats not what I asked and not what you said.

Well lets look at white collar crimes. Are punishments for white collar crimes similar or same to blue collar crimes. No way. Blue collar crimes have significantly disproportionate jail terms, and future repercussions to family units among other things, than white collar crimes.

The CEO of Wells Fargo isnt serving any jail time for knowingly committing millions of dollars of financial fraud, however a 3-time AA drug user gets life.

 

[kmoose]

It was the selective nature. People were selectively targeted and even detained for immigration enforcement based on outing other than being Hispanic. That's pretty much the definition of systematic harsssment.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Detaining someone who is in the country legally is not "enforcing the law". Detaining those who are here illegally is, and I fail to see the problem with that?

 

[gkIrish]

Thoughts on moving these discussions to the "Politics" Thread?

As rich as the OP must be off this thread, doesn't really make sense anymore...

 

[connor_in]

Sorry guys...a little bit of a rant this morning...

Are we just about done with the special snowflakes and their reality freakout over the results of a "free and fair election"? I read a bunch of articles and social media posts and saw a bunch of videos and watched the news...I mean seriously, what is wrong with these people? To feel bad, ok, go ahead...but to protest not an action but a result that just didn't turn out in your favor wnd have those protests turn over to riots and vandalism...it doesn't exactly make the D party look very good.

When the Cubs won, did the people in Cleveland cry, stage protests, riot, and cause harm to people and property? When the Cavs won, did the Golden State fans do it? When Obama won, did people take to the streets and teachers cancel classes and constantly post to Facebook self important posts about it being the end of the USA. There are stories and some evidence that there is professional organization to some of this. Lovely... The celebrities who said they'd leave...no one thought they actually would and most say they were just joking, riiiiihgt.

Personally, if the election didn't turn out the way you wanted, sorry, not sorry. Some will and some won't. I am not even 50 and i know I have liked the results and not liked the results of many elections, but I have never cried over it or taken to the streets to cause damage. You know, I even grant a little bit of leeway to the younger voters if this is their first election voting and maybe (possibly) some to people voting in their second, but if you are 26 and doing any of this stuff, please pull yourself together and act like the adult you claim to be. Lear something if you haven't already...

The world is not and never has been or probably ever will be unicorns and rainbows in gumdrop houses on lollipop lane.

THERE IS REALITY

...and you know what, the reality is that we live in pretty good country...I and many other think it is the best in the world. Prefect? Not a chance, sweetheart. We are human. We have our flaws. Racism and sexism and all of that DO exist and will continue to. Inequality and hatred do as well. But you know what, look back in history. Even our own brief history of the USA. Notice something? Things have gotten better in all of those areas. I believe they still will no mater who is in office. It is not always a straight line but things get better, we continue forward as a nation.

Everything gets better when we work together. If you do not like something, work to change it. Crying and whining and stompy footing and burning and assaulting are NOT working for change. CHANGE DOES NOT JUST HAPPEN! YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR IT! You don't like the result of the election? Work and organize and put forward a candidate that stands for what you want, and then work to make others understand why their way is better. I mean this for not just D's but R's too as many of them did not want DJT but he is what we were left with as the candidate that came somewhat closer to our views than HRC. For all sides, putting the other person down does not get as many people voting as giving them something to vote for. I am guilty of this as well, I am not excusing myself. I had the old South Park Giant Douche vs Sh!t sandwich conundrum and took the Giant Douche. The candidates try to give people something to vote FOR sometimes, but most of the time they spend more time giving you something to vote against. Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama are the ones in my voting lifetime that have done the best at trying to give people more of something to vote FOR, not that I necessarily like all of their policies, but they worked on presenting the vision thing (TM GHWB).

I need to end the amorpuous, stream of consciousness rant and get some work done and apologize for going off the rails a bit.

Let just say this to the D party. I do not like DJT as a person and how he tends to act, but I think our country was not moving in the right direction in a number of areas. If you want me to vote for your people, GIVE ME A REASON TO. Yes, I am a white catholic male, but I do not feel that I am sexist, racist, etc, etc, etc, so do not assume that I am. Do not automatically write me off. If you can convince me that the majority of what you want to do is viable and will be good for the country, you can have my vote. However, I am not a 1 issue person. Most everyone I know are not 1 one issue voters (and I do know and have lots of family on both sides of the aisle).

Lastly...if people rioting and denigrating the people who voted for Trump honestly believe that what you are doing will help improve things in our country or draw more people to your cause all I can do is shake my head and worry about the future of our nation and the future for my child.

/thus endeth the rant

Have a good weekend everyone and Thanks to all who have served/are serving our nation in the military. God bless you and God bless the USA

 

[Bluto]

It's currently 44% non-Hispanic white. Hispanics are usually counted as white in the 'white' total.

What's your point? It is much less white than it has been. Was super white when ND was living there. It has an airport named after John Wayne. It's where Nixon was from (although he'd be an R.I.N.O. now a days). Wally George got his start there as did B-1 Bob. It's one of the cradles of the looney bin white nationalist conservatism you see today.