2016 Fall Camp Thread

[Whiskeyjack]

Those are fair points. I guess I am not as convinced Hunter will be as dominating as some suggest. Fuller was such a big vertical threat that teams couldn't go single safety high without playing with fire (cough, USC, cough). I don't personally view Hunter as that type of threat. To me, he is going to make more plays 0-20 years from the LOS. He is very good, just a different player which will change the dynamics.

Kizer doesn't need a constant home-run threat to be a superior QB to Zaire; he just needs a few guys who can reliably catch hitches, curls, outs, etc. in that 0-20 yard range. If we've at least got that (and I think we do), then his experience advantage/ frequently touted proficiency at calling the right protections, checking down, etc. will make us much more difficult to stop than with Zaire at QB.

 

[Blaise]

I'm with you. 28 receptions and 362 yards last year. I'd label him as dependable and solid, but he's not going to be a threat that the defense is going to worry about. IMO.

I truly believe this will be a post you will be reminded to over and over during the course of the season. I think Hunter is a stud and is going to be making plays left and right IF Kizer is the QB...

People forget Kizer broke the QB record for rushing Td's last year for a Notre Dame QB.. The guy can run and throw...

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

I'm with you. 28 receptions and 362 yards last year. I'd label him as dependable and solid, but he's not going to be a threat that the defense is going to worry about. IMO.

Fuller's impact was way bigger than even his yardage/TD stats would indicate. When we managed to run the ball well was when Fuller drew safety help, which opened up the gun game. The choice between stopping Fuller and stopping Procise was a loose-loose situation for opposing defenses, if our opponents can key in on the run game this year our rushing attack will suffer too.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Fuller's impact was way bigger than even his yardage/TD stats would indicate. When we managed to run the ball well was when Fuller drew safety help, which opened up the gun game. The choice between stopping Fuller and stopping Procise was a loose-loose situation for opposing defenses, if our opponents can key in on the run game this year our rushing attack will suffer too.

 

[irishfan]

From a passing perspective Texas is the anomaly for Zaire. He hasn't proven that he can consistently push the ball downfield. Where Kizer has shown plenty of that and he improved dramatically in the zone read.

Pass Game:
1. Kizer
2. Zaire

Run Game:
1A. Zaire
1B. Kizer

Until this changes, I don't see how you start Zaire. Now, maybe it has and we haven't had the luxury of seeing it. That could be possible but I'll be skeptical.

He's played one full game. He split time in the other. And was injured midway through his final game. I don't think he has enough stats for anything to be considered an anomaly.

 

[Luckylucci]

Well the same could be said for Zaire, lol. Texas and UVA. Fuller had 142 of 313 yards against Texas. If Fuller doesn't absolutely torch that UVA CB for a touchdown, that would have been a horrific performance by Zaire. He was 7 for 18 for 115 yards. Take away that one play and wow is that bad.

Probably the worst argument you could make in this case.

To take this one step further, in both games that Zaire played in 2015, those percentages are even higher with him at QB. He threw 3 td's versus Texas, 2 of those went to fuller. Plus 1 versus UVA, that 1 went to Fuller. So, out of 4 Td passes went to fuller, which would make it 75%. Plus Fuller went for 142 of 313 (total passing yards) and around 85, when Zaire was in against UVA, of 115, for 53% of his passing yards. So, again, Zaire actually inflates those numbers.

 

[Luckylucci]

He's played one full game. He split time in the other. And was injured midway through his final game. I don't think he has enough stats for anything to be considered an anomaly.

Well, then the same can be said for those that look to that game as a harbinger of future production.

Big picture, I agree with your statement but this is what we have to go off of. Zaire has very little body of work and the body of work he does have, shows little to no consistency with pushing the ball downfield.

 

[koonja]

I truly believe this will be a post you will be reminded to over and over during the course of the season. I think Hunter is a stud and is going to be making plays left and right IF Kizer is the QB...

People forget Kizer broke the QB record for rushing Td's last year for a Notre Dame QB.. The guy can run and throw...

He doesn't have game breaking speed or size. And hasn't had great production to this point. I think he'll be really solid, but I don't think he's a guy defenses need to plan for. I hope I am laughed at for saying he's just that: Solid and dependable.

If someone offered me right now that he'd catch 55 balls for 800 yards and 7 TDs this year, I'd take it. To me that's solid and dependable. That's no JuJu Smith.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Kizer doesn't need a constant home-run threat to be a superior QB to Zaire; he just needs a few guys who can reliably catch hitches, curls, outs, etc. in that 0-20 yard range. If we've at least got that (and I think we do), then his experience advantage/ frequently touted proficiency at calling the right protections, checking down, etc. will make us much more difficult to stop than with Zaire at QB.

I would agree with you when looking at the season in totality. I just don't think it will play out that way over versus Texas and MSU. I think we will look really good in one of those games and very pedestrian in the other due to the lack of dependable WR play. I think the offense will be/ would be more consistent over that same time period with MZ running the show.

 

[RDU Irish]

Great QB can make mediocre WRs look good -all that more important to place the ball well, get a better touch on the passes and understand your progressions to hit the open man. We can all agree Fuller could make any QB look good as long as they could chuck it far enough down the field.

I have much more confidence in Kizer making the WRs look better than Zaire. Maybe Zaire has shown it in practice but his incomplete (no pun intended) body of work with the lights on does not get the nod over a proven top 15 QB in Kizer. AND consider Zaire has looked best with months to prep - the one time he had one week to prep it wasn't pretty.

Kizer's to job lose IMO.

 

[woolybug25]

Great QB can make mediocre WRs look good -all that more important to place the ball well, get a better touch on the passes and understand your progressions to hit the open man. We can all agree Fuller could make any QB look good as long as they could chuck it far enough down the field.

I have much more confidence in Kizer making the WRs look better than Zaire. Maybe Zaire has shown it in practice but his incomplete (no pun intended) body of work with the lights on does not get the nod over a proven top 15 QB in Kizer. AND consider Zaire has looked best with months to prep - the one time he had one week to prep it wasn't pretty.

Kizer's to job lose IMO.

That's a really good point that I hadn't thought of before. Ziare has essentially three games that he had to prepare for (LSU, TX and UVA) and the one game that he only had a week to prep for didn't go so well. Not sure if that's a big deal or not, but certainly worth noting.

 

[NDohio]

Those are fair points. I guess I am not as convinced Hunter will be as dominating as some suggest. Fuller was such a big vertical threat that teams couldn't go single safety high without playing with fire (cough, USC, cough). I don't personally view Hunter as that type of threat. To me, he is going to make more plays 0-20 years from the LOS. He is very good, just a different player which will change the dynamics.

As far as QB's are concerned, you may be right. I just think Zaire is more decisive and a bit quicker. I know Kizer was productive last year, but again, I think that had more to do with all of threats on the field. To me, I am not convinced he can produce like that when he is the threat teams key on.

Kizer doesn't need a constant home-run threat to be a superior QB to Zaire; he just needs a few guys who can reliably catch hitches, curls, outs, etc. in that 0-20 yard range. If we've at least got that (and I think we do), then his experience advantage/ frequently touted proficiency at calling the right protections, checking down, etc. will make us much more difficult to stop than with Zaire at QB.

My favorite half of offensive football last year was the second half against Clemson. The way Kizer performed that half and the offense we were running was an absolute joy to watch. If we can get our receivers running those short to intermediate routes Kizer will carve up most of the defenses we will see. It was a beautiful display. That is what I want to see from our QB. I don't think Zaire can do that.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Everyone killed Fuller because of his hands, until Kizer was the gun slinger. Coincidence, I doubt it. I don't think Fuller made Kizer's success anymore than Kizer made Fuller's. I'll take Kizer as the starter.

 

[gkIrish]

Great QB can make mediocre WRs look good -all that more important to place the ball well, get a better touch on the passes and understand your progressions to hit the open man. We can all agree Fuller could make any QB look good as long as they could chuck it far enough down the field.

I have much more confidence in Kizer making the WRs look better than Zaire. Maybe Zaire has shown it in practice but his incomplete (no pun intended) body of work with the lights on does not get the nod over a proven top 15 QB in Kizer. AND consider Zaire has looked best with months to prep - the one time he had one week to prep it wasn't pretty.

Kizer's to job lose IMO.

Yes absolutely fantastic point. One of the best points I've ever read on this site.

 

[Domina Nostra]

That's a really good point that I hadn't thought of before. Ziare has essentially three games that he had to prepare for (LSU, TX and UVA) and the one game that he only had a week to prep for didn't go so well. Not sure if that's a big deal or not, but certainly worth noting.

LSU has excellent DBs and gets good use out of them. You would expect a QB to look mediocre in that game.

On the other hand, Texas' personnel was down last year, and they played terribly in that game. Watch the highlights. Zaire takes advantage, but there are no "wow" moments. It really played to his strengths. He had time in the pocket and open WRs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7DrFK-CNvA

 

[koonja]

"When guys are dropping balls in practice, Malik is in their grill. He challenges the players urgency". ISD on Malik. #Leader

 

[EvilleIrish]

"When guys are dropping balls in practice, Malik is in their grill. He challenges the players urgency". ISD on Malik. #Leader

Well that seals it then....

 

[ulukinatme]

Zaire did not have a great 1st half against Virginia, but it was not all on him. We struggled with the Tenuta blitzes, and the receivers didn't have time to get open due to the pressure. That's not all on Zaire, there are a lot of factors involved there. We probably should have changed our game plan sooner and run away from the pressure. If he had played the whole game and gotten a chance to mount a comeback maybe we aren't having this discussion. He was already moving the offense and gaining momentum when the injury occurred. If we're going to discuss bad 1st halves it's only fitting to discuss Kizer in the same breath. He struggled in a few.

 

[ulukinatme]

AND consider Zaire has looked best with months to prep - the one time he had one week to prep it wasn't pretty.

Yes absolutely fantastic point. One of the best points I've ever read on this site.

It was a sample size of one game. I refute your claims!

 

[dwshade]

"When guys are dropping balls in practice, Malik is in their grill. He challenges the players urgency". ISD on Malik. #Leader

According to scout Malik threw a pass today that no Senior QB should ever throw. Was baited by Cole Luke who should have picked it off. Mike Sanford took notice.

 

[koonja]

According to scout Malik threw a pass today that no Senior QB should ever throw. Was baited by Cole Luke who should have picked it off. Mike Sanford took notice.

That's just he said she said.

 

[woolybug25]

That's just he said she said.

So is the opinion of any guy on ISD. How is that any different?

Your boy said that Weishar couldn't get open, but that was obviously "he said, she said", as anyone that watches the clips knows it to be dead wrong. Except you of course...

 

[koonja]

So is the opinion of any guy on ISD. How is that any different?

How do you not realize I'm not being serious.

 

[woolybug25]

How do you not realize I'm not being serious.

How would anyone take that as sarcasm with your previous comments?

I would be interested to see if anyone else saw that as sarcasm.

 

[NDohio]

How would anyone take that as sarcasm with your previous comments?

I would be interested to see if anyone else saw that as sarcasm.

No...

 

[Irish Insanity]

How would anyone take that as sarcasm with your previous comments?

I would be interested to see if anyone else saw that as sarcasm.

No...

I 3rd this.

 

[SoIll]

regardless, can't even imagine having to sit down with one of them and tell that young man we're going with the other guy. fvvvvvvck

 

[IrishBroker]

My favorite half of offensive football last year was the second half against Clemson. The way Kizer performed that half and the offense we were running was an absolute joy to watch. If we can get our receivers running those short to intermediate routes Kizer will carve up most of the defenses we will see. It was a beautiful display. That is what I want to see from our QB. I don't think Zaire can do that.

Agreed. He had a really good second half. And it was a game that we shouldn't have even been in as we had 5 turnovers....on the road.

If it wasn't for that 4th Q INT on the 1st down, after TD's on the prior two...we might've Forrest Gumped our way outta that with a win.

 

[mgriff]

I'm a Kizer supporter myself. I'll support whoever is the starter, but it seems to my amateur eye that Kizer offers more.

 

[Luckylucci]

regardless, can't even imagine having to sit down with one of them and tell that young man we're going with the other guy. fvvvvvvck

Yea, it's very easy for me to sit here and say, Kizer is my guy. However, it'd be a much more difficult decision should I have to tell Zaire to his face. If I was Bk, I'd have Denbrock and Sanford tag team that conversation