2016 Fall Camp Thread

[gkIrish]

It's pretty justifiable. "Did you see how Kizer played? Things change and I give everyone a fair chance to compete. No one is guaranteed playing time, and as a true freshman, that should make you feel good because you can come in and compete against the seniors. If you're the best player to help us win, you will play. If not, we will develop you to get ready for the big stage. I was almost certain Zaire would be our future, as a veteran leader of our team. But an underclassman came in and was the better player the following year".

I literally see the showtime clip as nothing and will impact nothing, QB choice or recruiting. Just my opinion.

FYI I edited my post while you were responding. You are right that it was completely justifiable. The problem is you never see coaches say things like that on tape, even if it does actually happen a lot.

 

[koonja]

If you can't be savvy enough to communicate to a kid how you didn't expect Kizer to ball out and how Zaire had his chance the following spring and fall to win the job, you are not savvy enough to be the head coach for ND.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't trust that BK will make the right personnel decision (see: Joe Schmidt).

He has that Showtime clip hanging over his head which I think actually plays a big part in all this.

If he goes with MZ he has the Showtime clip supporting him. He can use this as a recruiting tool (loyalty, honest, etc.).

I will also add, that just because one player is more vocal, it doesn't make them a better leader. Good leaders don't all communicate the same way. DK may communicate more on a one to one personal level rather then vocalizing to everyone.

 

[koonja]

FYI I edited my post while you were responding. You are right that it was completely justifiable. The problem is you never see coaches say things like that on tape, even if it does actually happen a lot.

But if he chooses Kizer, what's the floor? 10 wins? So let's say we win 11. That's just so easy to point to. If we had a shit team and our floor was 7 wins and he chose Kizer, then I can see people raising a stink. But if we have a great year I just don't see anyone bringing it up, and if they do, at 11 wins, Kizer will have had a phenomenal year and BK can say 'we didn't realize Kizer was going to grow into a 1st round draft pick at QB and Zaire had a full year to recover and win his job in spring and fall'. I won't post on this again because I feel like I've vetted my opinion from all angles. I hear what you're saying I just don't think that clip is hanging over BK's head.

 

[gkIrish]

If he goes with MZ he has the Showtime clip supporting him. He can use this as a recruiting tool (loyalty, honest, etc.).

Yes. This is why I am not confident he will make what is IMO the correct football decision.

 

[koonja]

If he goes with MZ he has the Showtime clip supporting him. He can use this as a recruiting tool (loyalty, honest, etc.).

If a coach is locking in starters before other players get a chance to compete, I'm not interested in coming in as a recruit. I want a fair chance. I think your point works against you. Fair competition.

 

[arrowryan]

In 2011, we were debating about who should start between Dayne Crist and Tommy Rees; fast forward 5 years later and we have a coaching staff that has to choose between a couple guys that could start for 99% of all college football teams. Man, we have come a long way lol.

I'm just glad to know that we have two quarterbacks that can ball.

 

[Blaise]

He doesn't have game breaking speed or size. And hasn't had great production to this point. I think he'll be really solid, but I don't think he's a guy defenses need to plan for. I hope I am laughed at for saying he's just that: Solid and dependable.

If someone offered me right now that he'd catch 55 balls for 800 yards and 7 TDs this year, I'd take it. To me that's solid and dependable. That's no JuJu Smith.

TJ Jones didn't have game breaking speed.... His senior year he went for 70 catches for 1100 yards... a year after having 50 catches for 649... I think Hunter will mirror Jones senior season

 

[koonja]

TJ Jones didn't have game breaking speed.... His senior year he went for 70 catches for 1100 yards... a year after having 50 catches for 649... I think Hunter will mirror Jones senior season

Hunter had half that last year.

 

[arrowryan]

Yes. This is why I am not confident he will make what is IMO the correct football decision.

I'm not sure there is an incorrect decision to be made here. Both are going to play a lot IMO

 

[gkIrish]

But if he chooses Kizer, what's the floor? 10 wins? So let's say we win 11. That's just so easy to point to. If we had a shit team and our floor was 7 wins and he chose Kizer, then I can see people raising a stink. But if we have a great year I just don't see anyone bringing it up, and if they do, at 11 wins, Kizer will have had a phenomenal year and BK can say 'we didn't realize Kizer was going to grow into a 1st round draft pick at QB and Zaire had a full year to recover and win his job in spring and fall'. I won't post on this again because I feel like I've vetted my opinion from all angles. I hear what you're saying I just don't think that clip is hanging over BK's head.

If a coach is locking in starters before other players get a chance to compete, I'm not interested in coming in as a recruit. I want a fair chance. I think your point works against you. Fair competition.

Standard Koon

 

[Blaise]

If a coach is locking in starters before other players get a chance to compete, I'm not interested in coming in as a recruit. I want a fair chance. I think your point works against you. Fair competition.

Exactly this... You can't use that clip as a recruiting tool if you go with Zaire... Most Fresh want a chance to play right away, or at least their second year... Other coaches will show that and be like see, BK makes promises to his players, Kizer balled out and wasn't given a chance because of a promise.. I know BK will tell you that you have a chance to compete for a job, but truth is, he promises positions to players and he won't budge, look at Joe Schmidt/ Morgan

 

[koonja]

Standard Koon

I've changed my mind. I'm going to post in free will and crush points as I see fit.

 

[Blaise]

Hunter had half that last year.

yeah, because Fuller and Chris Brown started and he split time in the slot...

Every media person raves about Hunter when they see practice... No reason to think Kizer can't find an open Hunter and make sweet sweet magic

 

[koonja]

Exactly this... You can't use that clip as a recruiting tool if you go with Zaire... Most Fresh want a chance to play right away, or at least their second year... Other coaches will show that and be like see, BK makes promises to his players, Kizer balled out and wasn't given a chance because of a promise.. I know BK will tell you that you have a chance to compete for a job, but truth is, he promises positions to players and he won't budge, look at Joe Schmidt/ Morgan

 

[ScooterIrish]

Honestly, does anybody outside of this group even remember BK saying that in the Showtime episode last year? I had completely forgotten about it. It's a non-issue.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Koon, I'll take your bet. I will honestly be happy to see either player start but I honestly believe Kizer gives Kelly what he wants in a QB: a pass-first, possible runner who can extend plays and make all the throws.

Zaire is a running-QB who requires changing the launch point and more orchestrated runs and who doesn't quite have the timing with his release on down-the-field throws** (**speculative and probably a disservice to Zaire. I'm sorry Zaire, I still love you)

Game on.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Honestly, does anybody outside of this group even remember BK saying that in the Showtime episode last year? I had completely forgotten about it. It's a non-issue.

Yeah, and Malik has had a long time to adjust to the idea he needs to compete for the spot.

I do think the easy way out is to give the job to Malik. I see essentially zero risk that Kizer would get mopey about it while the older player is more likely to see it as the end of his QB career at ND.

 

[koonja]

Koon, I'll take your bet. I will honestly be happy to see either player start but I honestly believe Kizer gives Kelly what he wants in a QB: a pass-first, possible runner who can extend plays and make all the throws.

Zaire is a running-QB who requires changing the launch point and more orchestrated runs and who doesn't quite have the timing with his release on down-the-field throws** (**speculative and probably a disservice to Zaire. I'm sorry Zaire, I still love you)

Game on.

To be clear, this will be a 'first game starter' bet. Not at the end of the year, who starts the most. And if it's a situation where BK halfasses it and goes every other series with both QBs, I would not consider that the starter. But if, say, Kizer plays all but 2 series in the whole game, we know he's the starter. Deal?

 

[Irish#1]

If a coach is locking in starters before other players get a chance to compete, I'm not interested in coming in as a recruit. I want a fair chance. I think your point works against you. Fair competition.

My point is it can be used both ways as a positive and a negative. Personally, I don't think it's a gig deal and easily explainable.

Recruit: Coach Harbaugh pointed out to me that you told MZ that it was still his team after he got hurt. It was right on showtime. Yet you went with DK.

BK: That's very true. I love my players and was quite emotional about the injury when I talked to MZ. He had poured his heart and soul into winning the starting job and I felt his pain. Then DK steps in and starts playing at a level we hadn't seen in practice and ends up leading us to a great season and a BCS game. Given the circumstances I opened up the competition to both as it was only fair. DK edged MZ for the starting spot, but MZ will get his opportunities as well. We as coaches have to make tough decisions at times and we always strive to do what's best for the team. I think you can appreciate that can't you?

Recruit: Coach I appreciate your honesty and can see how tough of a decision it was.

 

[koonja]

My point is it can be used both ways as a positive and a negative. Personally, I don't think it's a gig deal and easily explainable.

Recruit: Coach Harbaugh pointed out to me that you told MZ that it was still his team after he got hurt. It was right on showtime. Yet you went with DK.

BK: That's very true. I love my players and was quite emotional about the injury when I talked to MZ. He had poured his heart and soul into winning the starting job and I felt his pain. Then DK steps in and starts playing at a level we hadn't seen in practice and ends up leading us to a great season and a BCS game. Given the circumstances I opened up the competition to both as it was only fair. DK edged MZ for the starting spot, but MZ will get his opportunities as well. We as coaches have to make tough decisions at times and we always strive to do what's best for the team. I think you can appreciate that can't you?

Recruit: Coach I appreciate your honesty and can see how tough of a decision it was.

We're on the exact same page.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

To be clear, this will be a 'first game starter' bet. Not at the end of the year, who starts the most. And if it's a situation where BK halfasses it and goes every other series with both QBs, I would not consider that the starter. But if, say, Kizer plays all but 2 series in the whole game, we know he's the starter. Deal?

Sounds good. I have no use for these VBucks so if I'm wrong and Malik starts and takes the majority of the drives, I'll happily send them over.**

**Assuming we win and Malik is in fact #blackTebow

 

[Bugzly21]

Hunter had half that last year.

People need to stop comparing stats to what one guy did during one year compared to another guy did during the same "class" year. It doesn't make sense. There are so many variables to why they would be off. Which players were at the same time, QB, offensive scheme (offensive line, running back), etc.

I mean TJ Jones freshman year he had 23 receptions for 306 yds, were as Fuller had 6 receptions for 160 yards. That same rookie year for Fuller, C Rob (freshman) had 9 receptions for 157 yards.

 

[woolybug25]

Sounds good. I have no use for these VBucks so if I'm wrong and Malik starts and takes the majority of the drives, I'll happily send them over.**

**Assuming we win and Malik is in fact #blackTebow

Sweet bet. You have the stronger bet and you get 3-1 odds for it to, since the bet is all vbucks for both of you.

 

[Irish#1]

We're on the exact same page.

We weren't when discussing the staining of your deck. lol

 

[Irishcop]

Anyone know when BK might name the starter?

 

[gkIrish]

Anyone know when BK might name the starter?

There is speculation that he will not publicly name a starter until the day of the Texas game.

 

[BabyIrish]

Today is media day correct?

 

[koonja]

There is speculation that he will not publicly name a starter until the day of the Texas game.

Which would be a really dumb idea IMO.

 

[arrowryan]

Which would be a really dumb idea IMO.

Why?