2016 Fall Camp Thread

[Irish#1]

This is where I'm at. Zaire is much better than Kizer at the read option, IMO. Meanwhile, I really like that Kizer can just stand tall in the pocket, sling it, and can take off if he needs to. This is why I like giving the ball to Zaire in the red zone and let Kizer get us to the red zone.

I'm a believer in the old saying, "When you have two QB's, you have no QB." I've seen it too many times where a QB takes the team down the field only to be pulled inside the 10 because the backup QB is supposed to be better in the red zone. Then things fall apart, someone doesn't get the count right because the QB's cadence is different. The QB checks but everyone else runs a different play, fumble, hand-off is awkward, etc.

I don't have a problem with the backup getting a series in each half, but they should be on the field at the start of the drive.

 

[BobbyMac]

With our line and stable of backs, we're going to be able to run on just about anyone this year no matter who the QB is. I'd put the guy in who has the best chance of adding the passing dimension to the mix, getting our young WRs some experience early in the year so they are ready to contribute when we really need them to. My gut tells me the QB who expands the pressure we put on a defense most is Kizer, but that may be because I have seen him play a lot more than I've seen Malik. Zaire looked good against Texas and not so good against Va. last year before Kizer came in to put the Cavs away late. He's a known quantity.

You make it sound as though DK got them out of a hole MZ dug. That's not how it went down.

 

[NDShark]

You make it sound as though DK got them out of a hole MZ dug. That's not how it went down.

Yeah -- the entire team took the foot off the pedal after about the first quarter. Malik didn't do anything horrendous to let UVa back in that one.

 

[Big23Head]

Scout Monster in the Middle

<iframe width="620" height="348.75" src="http://www.scout.com/embed/video/1694670" frameborder="0"
autoPlay="true" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[GoIrish41]

You make it sound as though DK got them out of a hole MZ dug. That's not how it went down.

Didn't mean to imply that at all. That 4th quarter TD pass to Fuller was Kizer's coming out party on a day in which Malik didn't have the same kind of game as he had against Texas. That's kind of hard to argue against, no. Kizer took full advantage of that moment and he largely carried it through the season.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

With our line and stable of backs, we're going to be able to run on just about anyone this year no matter who the QB is. I'd put the guy in who has the best chance of adding the passing dimension to the mix, getting our young WRs some experience early in the year so they are ready to contribute when we really need them to. My gut tells me the QB who expands the pressure we put on a defense most is Kizer, but that may be because I have seen him play a lot more than I've seen Malik. Zaire looked good against Texas and not so good against Va. last year before Kizer came in to put the Cavs away late. He's a known quantity.

I hope the bolded is correct but we have yet to see what our line really looks like this year. We lost a lot of talent, two pieces in the first three rounds.

There is a lot of movement and I'm afraid we're expecting too much from this OL. I hope Hiestand gets us to a point where we can assume the OL play will be great every game but I'll stay unconvinced until I've seen a few games.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Sad thing is that even with those studs last year, ND couldnt impose its will on everyone by a far stretch.

 

[Irishman77]

Sad thing is that even with those studs last year, ND couldnt impose its will on everyone by a far stretch.

IMO this is why

Stanley - Elite
Q- Very good but was injured part of the year
Martin- Played hurt most of the year
Elmer- Average at best lineman
McGlinchy - Elite

Obviously staying healthy is crucial, but if we stay healthy we have more talent and another year of development this year.

Only thing that will slow our running game down is play calling.

 

[Luckylucci]

You make it sound as though DK got them out of a hole MZ dug. That's not how it went down.

While it shouldn't read like Zaire was the reason we were losing, it was close. He was 7 for 18 with 115 yards passing. If you take out 1 long TD pass to Fuller, those numbers would have been horrendous. He was missing reads and hesitating to let loose of the football. Pretty inaccurate when he did. He did contribute 87 yards rushing and zero turnovers, which were his saving grace until the injury.

He didn't put us in a hole but he sure wasn't helping dig us out, or however you want to phrase that.

 

[Wingman Ray]

IMO this is why

Elmer- Average at best lineman
.

Wonder if this is why he left early (for the job). Wonder if he saw the writing on the wall that he probably wouldnt start this year and took the good opportunity job after a discussion with BK or if it was just the lure of the job.

 

[STLDomer]

Wonder if this is why he left early (for the job). Wonder if he saw the writing on the wall that he probably wouldnt start this year and took the good opportunity job after a discussion with BK or if it was just the lure of the job.

99.9% sure he would start this year

 

[Whiskeyjack]

ndmspaint is killing it:

 

[pkt77242]

IMO this is why

Stanley - Elite
Q- Very good but was injured part of the year
Martin- Played hurt most of the year
Elmer- Average at best lineman
McGlinchy - Elite

Obviously staying healthy is crucial, but if we stay healthy we have more talent and another year of development this year.

Only thing that will slow our running game down is play calling.

Not this again. Elmer was at worst an average lineman. SMDH.

ETA: I would say that he was an above average to good lineman.

 

[pkt77242]

I'm a believer in the old saying, "When you have two QB's, you have no QB." I've seen it too many times where a QB takes the team down the field only to be pulled inside the 10 because the backup QB is supposed to be better in the red zone. Then things fall apart, someone doesn't get the count right because the QB's cadence is different. The QB checks but everyone else runs a different play, fumble, hand-off is awkward, etc.

I don't have a problem with the backup getting a series in each half, but they should be on the field at the start of the drive.

On the flip side, I have seen many teams fall apart when the starting QB gets injured and our QBs run enough that that is a real risk.

 

[IrishLion]

Interesting comments from Denbrock from the video. When asked what this wr group needs considering the talent but youth... doesn't mention experience/play book.. but says twice they need to raise their level of compete..

How is competition an issue with so many spots open for the taking? You'd think these young guys would be going ham to get reps. Is the whole group soft or what?

It's probably not an issue. Just the usual coach speak, trying to get more out of them.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Jeeez people. Elmer was better than average.

He graded out as a 4th round pick last year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pkt77242]

Jeeez people. Elmer was better than average.

He graded out as a 4th round pick last year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like Elmer and I think that he was an above average to good lineman but I think that the 4th round grade wouldn't have held up to tape evaluation. To me he would have been a late round NFL pick (6th-7th) after last year, he could have improved it this year.

 

[NDRock]

I'm a believer in the old saying, "When you have two QB's, you have no QB." I've seen it too many times where a QB takes the team down the field only to be pulled inside the 10 because the backup QB is supposed to be better in the red zone. Then things fall apart, someone doesn't get the count right because the QB's cadence is different. The QB checks but everyone else runs a different play, fumble, hand-off is awkward, etc.

I don't have a problem with the backup getting a series in each half, but they should be on the field at the start of the drive.

Honestly, I don't remember a team using two QBs in the situation you describe. I'm sure it's happened but in all my years watching football I can't remember a team employing this strategy for an extended period.

Of course, you may just be referring to the occasional switch (ala Tebow's Freshman year).

 

[pkt77242]

Honestly, I don't remember a team using two QBs in the situation you describe. I'm sure it's happened but in all my years watching football I can't remember a team employing this strategy for an extended period.

Of course, you may just be referring to the occasional switch (ala Tebow's Freshman year).

Chris Leak/Tebow
Oklahoma QB/Blake Bell (I can't remember the starter).

I am sure that there are others as well.

 

[Bugzly21]

Interesting comments from Denbrock from the video. When asked what this wr group needs considering the talent but youth... doesn't mention experience/play book.. but says twice they need to raise their level of compete..

How is competition an issue with so many spots open for the taking? You'd think these young guys would be going ham to get reps. Is the whole group soft or what?

Actually it's not that outlandish of a statement. The core of receivers are 1-2 years out of HS where they were the top player at their position on the team. So during those years them losing their spot wasn't going to happen. Now they are with a bunch of players equal to or even better than they are. So they are learning to compete not just in games but have to do it on a daily basis.

 

[Rack Em]

Chris Leak/Tebow
Oklahoma QB/Blake Bell (I can't remember the starter).

I am sure that there are others as well.

Landry Jones

 

[STLDomer]

I think that system works if A) the starter isn't mentally effected by not getting "rewarded" aka getting credit for a TD for a good drive. B) The backup has to know his role and be able to "turn on the switch" in a sec.

Problem is usually the starter has an ego and doesn't like it. This and the backup starts to want a bigger role or can't turn "it" on that quickly. Most QBs need to get in a rhythm.

Leak obviously wasn't effected and Tebow was the ultimate team player/competitor = success.

 

[ulukinatme]

Didn't mean to imply that at all. That 4th quarter TD pass to Fuller was Kizer's coming out party on a day in which Malik didn't have the same kind of game as he had against Texas. That's kind of hard to argue against, no. Kizer took full advantage of that moment and he largely carried it through the season.

I think that's a better assessment. The first half was all kinds of awful for us offensively against Virginia. We needed a trick fake FG to score that first TD. I wouldn't pin it all on Zaire, we struggled with handling Tenuta's blitzes and our receivers couldn't get open quick enough due to the pressure. It was a mess overall. We started getting a handle on things offensively and getting back into the game, and then Zaire went down. CJ picked up a big run after the Zaire injury, and the Kizer/Fuller throw bailed us out late.

 

[Irish Insanity]

If you have 2 QB'S you have 0.

 

[dad4aa]

While it shouldn't read like Zaire was the reason we were losing, it was close. He was 7 for 18 with 115 yards passing. If you take out 1 long TD pass to Fuller, those numbers would have been horrendous. He was missing reads and hesitating to let loose of the football. Pretty inaccurate when he did. He did contribute 87 yards rushing and zero turnovers, which were his saving grace until the injury.

He didn't put us in a hole but he sure wasn't helping dig us out, or however you want to phrase that.

This is what I remember as well. I like Malik but he has only played two games. He played decent against LSU in the bowl game while splitting time with Golson. Played like a Heisman winner against a soft Texas team and then followed that up with a subpar performance against Virginia prior to getting injured. I don't consider us having two experienced QBs. I think we have one experienced QB and one with some experience. Not a knock on Malik jmo.

 

[ulukinatme]

If you have 2 QB'S you have 0.

I agree...wait...

 

[Irish#1]

On the flip side, I have seen many teams fall apart when the starting QB gets injured and our QBs run enough that that is a real risk.

Don't disagree. It's the continuity you lose. I'm not saying we don't have two guys capable of starting. I'm simply saying I don't think we would benefit having DK takes us down to the ten, then replace him with MZ.

 

[pkt77242]

Don't disagree. It's the continuity you lose. I'm not saying we don't have two guys capable of starting. I'm simply saying I don't think we would benefit having DK takes us down to the ten, then replace him with MZ.

I agree in this case because DK is also very mobile. What if you had someone more similar to Rees, would you feel the same?

 

[NDdomer2]

ok so what we've gathered is a couple things

1. The offense is likely to change little regardless of qb. Kelly has even said in the past its a right handed offense and malik would have to run it that way.

2. Positives for Kizer: has more game experience. arm, pocket passing

3. Positives for Zaire: better runner, better at option reads, play extension/creation

Where I think the deciding factor comes in, is the things that Zaire does better, Kizer is still above average/good enough at. So there is no loss of those qualities.

Ultiimately i can see where depending on situation (time of game, field position, score, etc) where the non starter gets a whole drive.

I dont expect too much flip/floping within drives.

But say we get a turnover around the opponents 40 near end of half. and you want to milk some clock. Thats Zaire's drive. 2:00 drill with 70 yards to go, thats Kizer's drive.

 

[koonja]

I won't be mad either way, but I still hope Malik improves his passing enough to take the job. Nothing wrong with Kizer, but Zaire is just that 1 in a team of 85 personalities that increases the emotion/desire on everyone else on the team. And he happens to be a QB. Tim Tebow hits baseballs better than he throws a football/reads a defense, but look at his impact. He couldn't make an NFL team as a backup, but he was probably the greatest college player in the past 20 years. Give me black Tebow