2016 Fall Camp Thread

[benneboy]

Not this again. Elmer was at worst an average lineman. SMDH.

ETA: I would say that he was an above average to good lineman.

Elmer was consistently the weak link on the oline. Calling him average amongst our line is putting it kindly. He graded out in the negatives according to pro football focus far too often. Might he have improved this year and kept his staring spot? Sure potentially. But you're overstating his contributions last year.

 

[pkt77242]

Elmer was consistently the weak link on the oline. Calling him average amongst our line is putting it kindly. He graded out in the negatives according to pro football focus far too often. Might he have improved this year and kept his staring spot? Sure potentially. But you're overstating his contributions last year.

I didn't say that Elmer was average amongst our OL. He is at worst average for a P5 G. We have a great line, thus Elmer was below our average while still being a pretty good OL. Elmer's biggest weakness was run blocking (below average to average) and his pass blocking was above average to good). I think that you are understating his contributions from last year.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I didn't say that Elmer was average amongst our OL. He is at worst average for a P5 G. We have a great line, thus Elmer was below our average while still being a pretty good OL. Elmer's biggest weakness was run blocking (below average to average) and his pass blocking was above average to good). I think that you are understating his contributions from last year.

100% agree. I think he would be starting for 90% of P5 teams. Maybe even higher.


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[Irish Insanity]

I won't be mad either way, but I still hope Malik improves his passing enough to take the job. Nothing wrong with Kizer, but Zaire is just that 1 in a team of 85 personalities that increases the emotion/desire on everyone else on the team. And he happens to be a QB. Tim Tebow hits baseballs better than he throws a football/reads a defense, but look at his impact. He couldn't make an NFL team as a backup, but he was probably the greatest college player in the past 20 years. Give me black Tebow

So of he's that 1in a team of 85 personality yet he can only affect the team positively if he's starting?

 

[koonja]

So of he's that 1in a team of 85 personality yet he can only affect the team positively if he's starting?

Yeah, I don't see the team rallying behind a guy who doesn't take snaps.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Yeah, I don't see the team rallying behind a guy who doesn't take snaps.

Maybe we can get him to start on D too. We may not be able to stop anyone if we don't have his 1 in a team personality out there.

 

[koonja]

Maybe we can get him to start on D too. We may not be able to stop anyone if we don't have his 1 in a team personality out there.

What is your point in this post?

 

[STLDomer]

I won't be mad either way, but I still hope Malik improves his passing enough to take the job. Nothing wrong with Kizer, but Zaire is just that 1 in a team of 85 personalities that increases the emotion/desire on everyone else on the team. And he happens to be a QB. Tim Tebow hits baseballs better than he throws a football/reads a defense, but look at his impact. He couldn't make an NFL team as a backup, but he was probably the greatest college player in the past 20 years. Give me black Tebow

Yeah, I don't see the team rallying behind a guy who doesn't take snaps.

I may be confused but are u saying Malik is the only one who can emotionally lead this team?

 

[koonja]

I may be confused but are u saying Malik is the only one who can emotionally lead this team?

No, but I'm saying he's the most capable of leading in that regard. I don't think it's a question of who the team would play harder for between Malik and Kizer.

 

[Irish Insanity]

What is your point in this post?

My point is, he's a 1 in a team guy. How the hell are we going to field a decent ST or D if he's not out there for those too. And I sure hope we don't need him to start so we have someone to 'rally' behind. If so, it's gonna be a long season.

 

[koonja]

My point is, he's a 1 in a team guy. How the hell are we going to field a decent ST or D if he's not out there for those too. And I sure hope we don't need him to start so we have someone to 'rally' behind. If so, it's gonna be a long season.

You're being a drama mama. You don't NEED one to win, I never said that. But it sure helps if you have one. You don't need money to be happy, but it sure helps if you have it.

 

[Irish Insanity]

No, but I'm saying he's the most capable of leading in that regard. I don't think it's a question of who the team would play harder for between Malik and Kizer.

What have you seen or heard that would lead you to make such a strong comments.?

 

[STLDomer]

No, but I'm saying he's the most capable of leading in that regard. I don't think it's a question of who the team would play harder for between Malik and Kizer.

So the team played harder against Texas and Virginia before Malik got hurt than they ever did the rest of the season?

 

[koonja]

What have you seen or heard that would lead you to make such a strong comments.?

Podcasts from the ND people who know the coaches and players. Common sense, following both for multiple years, reports that Kizer is 'douchey' to some.

Any other pointless questions?

 

[STLDomer]

Podcasts from the ND people who know the coaches and players. Common sense, following both for multiple years, reports that Kizer is 'douchey' to some.

Any other pointless questions?

 

[Irish Insanity]

Podcasts from the ND people who know the coaches and players. Common sense, following both for multiple years, reports that Kizer is 'douchey' to some.

Any other pointless questions?

We all have eyes. Use them. I'll believe it when I see it. Sure didn't seem to be an issue last year. Why even hold a competition of 1 of the 2 doesn't even have 'ot' to rally the team or emotionally charge them to play.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

2016 Fall Camp Thread

Come on guys stop messing with Koon.

It's well known that Malik is a better leader and more of a rara type of guy than Kizer. Doesn't mean Kizer is not a leader in his own right.


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[Irish Insanity]

Any other pointless questions?

You must be trolling with this.

 

[koonja]

We all have eyes. Use them. I'll believe it when I see it. Sure didn't seem to be an issue last year. Why even hold a competition of 1 of the 2 doesn't even have 'ot' to rally the team or emotionally charge them to play.

What are you talking about? Never did I say 'Kizer doesn't have it', I said Malik has something extra that most don't. If you don't agree with that, super, but you're being extreme and putting words in my mouth.

 

[IrishLion]

Any other pointless questions?

Hahhahahahahahahahahahahahah oh my

 

[Irish Insanity]

Did you not say Malik is 1 in 85? So obviously according to you Kizer doesn't have 'it' because he's one of the other 84.

 

[STLDomer]

Come on guys stop messing with Koon.

It's well known that Malik is a better leader and more of a rara type of guy than Kizer. Doesn't mean Kizer is not a leader in his own right.


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I'm just confused by the notion that the "rara guy" is the better leader. So Kizer can be a douche and Malik isn't? Who cares. If this team can't respond as well to Kizer doing a douche celebration as well as they respond to Malik cheering them on then the problem may be with them not Kizer. Is Malik a better leader than Tom Brady? Dude is a douche. Can bet he isn't "rara" to 99% of the team. But damn is he the leader of the team.

An alpha/leader personality of the team doesn't have to be the nice guy who everyone likes.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I'm just confused by the notion that the "rara guy" is the better leader. So Kizer can be a douche and Malik isn't? Who cares. If this team can't respond as well to Kizer doing a douche celebration as well as they respond to Malik cheering them on then the problem may be with them not Kizer. Is Malik a better leader than Tom Brady? Dude is a douche. Can bet he isn't "rara" to 99% of the team. But damn is he the leader of the team.

An alpha/leader personality of the team doesn't have to be the nice guy who everyone likes.

I approve this message.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I'm just confused by the notion that the "rara guy" is the better leader. So Kizer can be a douche and Malik isn't? Who cares. If this team can't respond as well to Kizer doing a douche celebration as well as they respond to Malik cheering them on then the problem may be with them not Kizer. Is Malik a better leader than Tom Brady? Dude is a douche. Can bet he isn't "rara" to 99% of the team. But damn is he the leader of the team.



An alpha/leader personality of the team doesn't have to be the nice guy who everyone likes.

I like Kizer and think he is a good leader. Prime example is Virginia game.

Just from what you hear is that Malik is a better leader compared to Kizer. Both are great leaders.


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[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Kizer is our bestfootballer who throws the football good. I'll take him at the position that requires that trait.

 

[IrishLax]

I like Kizer and think he is a good leader. Prime example is Virginia game.

Just from what you hear is that Malik is a better leader compared to Kizer. Both are great leaders.


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I think the best example was Clemson. That team had every reason to quit... they were getting blown out in a monsoon... and instead they did the exact opposite, with a dude no one expected anything from making his first road start.

 

[ulukinatme]

I like Kizer and think he is a good leader. Prime example is Virginia game.

Just from what you hear is that Malik is a better leader compared to Kizer. Both are great leaders.

To play devil's advocate, how do you know Kizer is a good leader? I think it's hard for us to make that distinction as fans, I think we have to rely on players, coaches, and people close to the program to make that call. Those people have said Zaire is a good leader numerous times, and that the team responds well to him. That's not to say Kizer isn't a leader, I certainly think he stepped up in the 3rd quarter of USC when he laid out for that 1st down. Still...you don't hear people close to the program mention his leadership qualities nearly as much. Zaire's name is the one that comes up time and time again.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I think the best example was Clemson. That team had every reason to quit... they were getting blown out in a monsoon... and instead they did the exact opposite, with a dude no one expected anything from making his first road start.

True.


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[SoIll]

I think the best example was Clemson. That team had every reason to quit... they were getting blown out in a monsoon... and instead they did the exact opposite, with a dude no one expected anything from making his first road start.

sooo true. We had no right to even be in that game

 

[dad4aa]

No, but I'm saying he's the most capable of leading in that regard. I don't think it's a question of who the team would play harder for between Malik and Kizer.

Not sure where you get that information. The couple of guys I talked with like them both but with a slight edge toward DeShone. Both are equally capable of getting the team to play hard. I have a hard time understanding why anyone thinks the team would play harder for one more than the other.