'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[IrishLax]

It's funny - one month ago I would have prayed for DK to come back for one more year. However, after seeing his regression, I'm wondering if this team's best chance to win next year isn't with BW. After all, BK does his best work with 1st year starters.

Literally last week one poster on this site gave me loads of crap for merely suggesting Wimbush might have more talent, and the offense might produce better next year with him at the helm. Certainly doesn't seem so crazy now given that Kizer isn't even a top 25 QB.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It's funny - one month ago I would have prayed for DK to come back for one more year. However, after seeing his regression, I'm wondering if this team's best chance to win next year isn't with BW. After all, BK does his best work with 1st year starters.

Think about what you actually said.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Literally last week one poster on this site gave me loads of crap for merely suggesting Wimbush might have more talent, and the offense might produce better next year with him at the helm. Certainly doesn't seem so crazy now given that Kizer isn't even a top 25 QB.

Only until Kelly gets his hands on him and the bromance wears off.

 

[ThePiombino]

Literally last week one poster on this site gave me loads of crap for merely suggesting Wimbush might have more talent, and the offense might produce better next year with him at the helm. Certainly doesn't seem so crazy now given that Kizer isn't even a top 25 QB.

I don't think many would argue that BW may have more talent for the college game in general, specifically this offense based on what he can do with his legs, but I also don't think that many would argue that DK is a better fit for the pro game. That said, the way things are trending, it's pretty obvious to me that it's something worth debating. I wouldn't waste BW's redshirt at this point, but I certainly wouldn't be as upset if DK declared.

Think about what you actually said.

I did. BEFORE posting even. Novel concept, I know. Point stands.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Throwing stupid int's is on Kelly?
Taking terrible sacks is on Kelly?
Changing the play at the line 2 times is on Kelly?
Missing wide open wr's is on Kelly?

He isn't good right now. He needs to sit down watch his tape and realize that he needs to calm down and play football. Quit overthinking everything. Remember these are supposed to be SMART players.

I'm not sure they regress. I think Kelly likes to keep things simple for his QBs and then after they've had several games to a year under their belt he ramps things up. That's when things begin to go sour. We start throwing the ball 30-35+ times a game and it invites interceptions and costly mistakes. We put too much on the QB's shoulders, we seem to be most successful when the running game is strong and we're throwing it <30 times a game. Tommy, Kizer, and Golson all looked like good QBs when the offense was simple. They've struggled a bit when you put more on their shoulders offensively.

Ulook, your post is that good!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

. . .



I did. BEFORE posting even. Novel concept, I know. Point stands.

Originally Posted by ulukinatme
I'm not sure they regress. I think Kelly likes to keep things simple for his QBs and then after they've had several games to a year under their belt he ramps things up. That's when things begin to go sour. We start throwing the ball 30-35+ times a game and it invites interceptions and costly mistakes. We put too much on the QB's shoulders, we seem to be most successful when the running game is strong and we're throwing it <30 times a game. Tommy, Kizer, and Golson all looked like good QBs when the offense was simple. They've struggled a bit when you put more on their shoulders offensively.

Just to be crystal.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Why does Kizer only get 60% of the reps?

Is that normal? These guys don't have very much time available for practice and they should be investing in the starter.

Not sure if I get this.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Everyone skipping over Ian Brooks like he does not exist...


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[BobbyMac]

Everyone skipping over Ian Brooks like he does not exist...


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I'm sure Ian Brooks exists... just don't who he is.

 

[ThePiombino]

Everyone skipping over Ian Brooks like he does not exist...


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What about him? No point in playing him unless he's the future of the program. Otherwise, maintain the course and continue to preserve his RS in case one day, 4 years from now he has to see the field in an emergency situation, he'll be a 5th year senior ready to do so.

 

[gkIrish]

I am on Team Wimbush and think he can be the best ND QB we have had since at least Quinn but all this negative talk about Kizer is way off IMO. He is going to be a huge success in the NFL. If Brock Osweiler and some of the other scrubs you see in that league can start, Deshone Kizer will be a starter in that league for a long time. I see him as better than Teddy B. at a minimum. Worst case scenario I see him having an Alex Smith type career.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I am on Team Wimbush and think he can be the best ND QB we have had since at least Quinn but all this negative talk about Kizer is way off IMO. He is going to be a huge success in the NFL. If Brock Osweiler and some of the other scrubs you see in that league can start, Deshone Kizer will be a starter in that league for a long time. I see him as better than Teddy B. at a minimum. Worst case scenario I see him having an Alex Smith type career.

IF Kizer continues to develop. Right now, he struggles throwing to his right, has difficulty reading defenses, which leads to checking in and out questionable plays, has no internal clock in the pocket, holds the ball too long, and hasn't learned to take what he is given. All of these are fixable issues, but to label him a huge success in the NFL when he hasn't been a huge success at ND is a bit premature IMO.

 

[IrishLax]

IF Kizer continues to develop. Right now, he struggles throwing to his right, has difficulty reading defenses, which leads to checking in and out questionable plays, has no internal clock in the pocket, holds the ball too long, and hasn't learned to take what he is given. All of these are fixable issues, but to label him a huge success in the NFL when he hasn't been a huge success at ND is a bit premature IMO.

He's the Derek Zoolander of quarterbacks.

 

[gkIrish]

IF Kizer continues to develop. Right now, he struggles throwing to his right, has difficulty reading defenses, which leads to checking in and out questionable plays, has no internal clock in the pocket, holds the ball too long, and hasn't learned to take what he is given. All of these are fixable issues, but to label him a huge success in the NFL when he hasn't been a huge success at ND is a bit premature IMO.

He was a huge success in 2015. He has been under immense pressure this year with all the media hype and the total lack of defense. Brian Kelly spoke to him about the NFL draft and Heisman talk before the season even started (...but we still had 2QBs going into Texas lolol). I think he feels that he needs to win games by himself and I would not be surprised if BK is telling him that behind closed doors.

You are right that he is not mentally prepared yet but he will figure it out. He has relatively few flaws compared to all the QBs that have been drafted in the first round in the last five years. I mean look at names like Brandon Weeden, Blake Bortles, Manziel, EJ Manuel, Ryan Tannehill, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder....etc etc. All those guys can't sniff Kizer's jock strap IMO.

 

[kmoose]

IF Kizer continues to develop. Right now, he struggles throwing to his right, has difficulty reading defenses, which leads to checking in and out questionable plays, has no internal clock in the pocket, holds the ball too long, and hasn't learned to take what he is given. All of these are fixable issues, but to label him a huge success in the NFL when he hasn't been a huge success at ND is a bit premature IMO.

He's just a guy who is pushing too hard, trying to do too much. The sacks aren't because he suddenly can't read a defense. The sacks are because he is holding on to the ball too long, trying too hard to make a play. I'm not saying that he is a lock for NFL success, but he's not a guy that people are hoping has an NFL career, based on hype and not results.

 

[RDU Irish]

Would be nice to see him reach some of that potential in Blue and Gold. I think he needs another year - hopefully he sticks around for his degree.

 

[IrishinSyria]

He's just a guy who is pushing too hard, trying to do too much. The sacks aren't because he suddenly can't read a defense. The sacks are because he is holding on to the ball too long, trying too hard to make a play. I'm not saying that he is a lock for NFL success, but he's not a guy that people are hoping has an NFL career, based on hype and not results.

yeah, this is beyond belief. Kid's been an amazing qb for the Irish over the course of a season and then people start bailing on him after 2 bad games, one of which was played in a literal hurricane?

 

[NDohio]

What's interesting to me on the holding the ball too long is that it's really not any different than last year. I felt that he held it too long last year as well, but he often found a small window to to make a completion as he was being knocked down. I think the "holding the ball too long" is a little bit on him, a little bit on the fact that he had a few seconds more last year, and he had experienced WR's that found space when he was in trouble. I don't completely blame it on DK.

 

[Rack Em]

He's the Derek Zoolander of quarterbacks.

The Derek Zoolander Center for Quarterbacks who don't Quarterback good and who want to learn to accurately run through their progressions.

 

[ACamp1900]

I am on Team Wimbush and think he can be the best ND QB we have had since at least Quinn but all this negative talk about Kizer is way off IMO. He is going to be a huge success in the NFL. If Brock Osweiler and some of the other scrubs you see in that league can start, Deshone Kizer will be a starter in that league for a long time. I see him as better than Teddy B. at a minimum. Worst case scenario I see him having an Alex Smith type career.

IF Kizer continues to develop. Right now, he struggles throwing to his right, has difficulty reading defenses, which leads to checking in and out questionable plays, has no internal clock in the pocket, holds the ball too long, and hasn't learned to take what he is given. All of these are fixable issues, but to label him a huge success in the NFL when he hasn't been a huge success at ND is a bit premature IMO.

Kizer is up there tho, even with how bad things are going... he misses a lot of short throws (in fairness this was MUCH more of an issue last year but it's still a thing to a lesser degree now) and can hold the ball/ all the other things that have been mentioned. He does have the tools tho... with a Pro career, you just never know...

All things considered, I think it's time to take the money if it's there and let Wimbush be the cornerstone that we rebuild on... just me.

 

[ACamp1900]

The Derek Zoolander Center for Quarterbacks who don't Quarterback good and who want to learn to accurately run through their progressions.

*there

 

[kmoose]

What's interesting to me on the holding the ball too long is that it's really not any different than last year. I felt that he held it too long last year as well, but he often found a small window to to make a completion as he was being knocked down. I think the "holding the ball too long" is a little bit on him, a little bit on the fact that he had a few seconds more last year, and he had experienced WR's that found space when he was in trouble. I don't completely blame it on DK.

It's on DK, in the sense that he is the QB; he needs to be able to feel the pressure, when his line can't hold their blocks, and either get away from the pressure to extend the play, or get rid of the ball. It's not a flaw of his, perse'; it's just that the elite guys can do that. I think he is just pressing too hard and doing too much thinking and not enough just playing instinctually.

 

[IrishBroker]

Not going to put this on Kizer, nor do I think this is really his level of play.

This team is wearing on all of them. When your defense is this bad, you will press. And when you are losing, you will press, and you will lose confidence in yourself.

I think this team is dead. They don't trust their coach, and I doubt they give a damn about this season. I've been in a locker room like this before, it's the worst

 

[ulukinatme]

The Derek Zoolander Center for Quarterbacks who don't Quarterback good and who want to learn to accurately run through their progressions.

Davaris is covered? Better run and hold the ball out so it can be stripped

 

[BabyIrish]

I was just thinking about this, but if MZ and DK both leave are QB depth looks extremely thin. I hope DK sticks around for one more year.

 

[gkIrish]

Not going to put this on Kizer, nor do I think this is really his level of play.

This team is wearing on all of them. When your defense is this bad, you will press. And when you are losing, you will press, and you will lose confidence in yourself.

I think this team is dead. They don't trust their coach, and I doubt they give a damn about this season. I've been in a locker room like this before, it's the worst

Yeah it's not like there are not other players that are somehow regressing. Cole Luke, all the TEs, Tori Hunter to an extent, half the offensive line, Josh Adams, Onwualu. The list goes on.

 

[kmoose]

Yeah it's not like there are not other players that are somehow regressing. Cole Luke, all the TEs, Tori Hunter to an extent, half the offensive line, Josh Adams, Onwualu. The list goes on.

In the case of Cole Luke, Torii Hunter, Jr., Josh Adams, and the OL; I don't know if they are regressing, or if there were unrealistic expectations placed upon them, and they just aren't living up to them.

 

[ulukinatme]

I was just thinking about this, but if MZ and DK both leave are QB depth looks extremely thin. I hope DK sticks around for one more year.

Eh, we thought it was thin when Golson left and it was Zaire, Kizer, and Wimbush with little to no experience. I think we'd be fine with Wimbush, Book, and Davis for next year. We need to get the OL fixed before that happens though, and in turn make the running game solid.

 

[gkIrish]

In the case of Cole Luke, Torii Hunter, Jr., Josh Adams, and the OL; I don't know if they are regressing, or if there were unrealistic expectations placed upon them, and they just aren't living up to them.

I think Cole Luke has definitely regressed despite the nice game against Stanford. He is slower, out of position all the time, and has tackled more poorly than last year.

Adams doesn't have the burst he had last year, or the passion.

You may be right about Torii...he probably has similar stats as last year but again, I don't feel like he making the clutch catches he did last year.

 

[irishff1014]

I am on Team Wimbush and think he can be the best ND QB we have had since at least Quinn but all this negative talk about Kizer is way off IMO. He is going to be a huge success in the NFL. If Brock Osweiler and some of the other scrubs you see in that league can start, Deshone Kizer will be a starter in that league for a long time. I see him as better than Teddy B. at a minimum. Worst case scenario I see him having an Alex Smith type career.

Typical Football fan. The Back up QB is the shinning star. Come on GK you are smarter than this. Yes over time he might be better but he has played all of 10 plays.