'11 CA LB Joe Schmidt (Scholarship Earned)

[connor_in]

Man, I cannot wait for the 2016 season. If for no other reason than we will hopefully see the end of the 24/7 Joe Schmidt conversations. I am sure discussions like this are the reason we use the phrase "ad nauseam".

 

[Old Man Mike]

I still think that we should use Jarrett Grace in the MIKE spot, as whatever's wrong with Joe's ability to tackle [which he seemed much better at last year; a lot of this is probably a nearly non-functional handgrip, but since it's a real factor it needs to be addressed regardless of it being a reasonable excuse] is hurting our ability to stop drives even when we seem to make the correct reads/fits.

Next year, assuming that Barajas is not ready, and Nyles [who is not "stupid" but lacks D1 quality werewolf instincts --- something completely different {the systemics can be mentally learned; the instinctive rapid reaction to the snap only experientially learned if ever} also not ready, I hope that the staff trains Martini for the MIKE and teams him with Onwualu and Coney. That would seem to give us enough speed, tackling, and savvy to make the transition.

Unfortunately as to Morgan, his apparent deficiency in instinctively and rapidly getting to the right place post-one-second-of-the-snap can only be improved by game reps. Since we never play easy games, Coach can't afford the growing pains --- an argument in favor of an SEC or BIG-12 type schedule. Guys like Morgan could learn non-thinking instinctive post-snap reactions vs three patsies per year.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Does he make good plays? Absolutely. Is it important to have a guy out there that understands the defense? For sure. But he has played "bad" more consistently than he has played "good," and it's a problem when your MLB is such an athletic liability.

What is this defense going to do next year when Joe is gone? If it would really be such a steep drop off to take Joe off the field, then this unit is going to be bad.

Agree 100%. MLB is probably THE MOST important position on the field and in most defenses, that is where your best overall LB plays at. The worst LB on scholarship athletically plays there for ND. You are going to tell me Grace with 5 years of college football experience cant line people up? Guys, it isnt like this defense is game wrecking people so it isnt like it is off the chart great defensive scheme. ND has had superior athletes to every single team recruit wise year to date except for USC and has struggled most the games.

Honestly, watching the USC game, it was very clear that the athletes on their defense were not competitive with the athletes on their offense. USC kept shooting themselves in the foot and when they didnt, the big played ND because they just flat out outran ND. You can argue take away those big plays but that is what happens when you have superior athletes on the field. That is why you see big TD runs by RBs because of superior athletics. That is why ND's longest run for the past what three years by it's RBs has been less than 30 yards?

 

[tussin]

Honestly, watching the USC game, it was very clear that the athletes on their defense were not competitive with the athletes on their offense. USC kept shooting themselves in the foot and when they didnt, the big played ND because they just flat out outran ND. You can argue take away those big plays but that is what happens when you have superior athletes on the field. That is why you see big TD runs by RBs because of superior athletics. That is why ND's longest run for the past what three years by it's RBs has been less than 30 yards?

What are you even trying to say here? Prosise had a 91 yard TD run this year.

 

[rocket66]

In the Showtime series they continue to show Joe with that cheesy scream/yell thing he does before every game in the locker room. I always wonder if the better players just laugh inside and wish he'd use that intensity to not miss tackles. I played with a guy like that. You earn respect by kicking ass on the field, imo.


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[kmoose]

He hasn't played well

I don't think it's really fair to say that. I mean, what is he being asked to do? Maybe he is doing almost everything that the coaches have asked of him? The missed tackles are obviously an issue, but they may not tell the whole story.

I think at some point being a "coach" on the field isn't enough when you aren't making basic plays. It's insane if Jaylon can't line up and play football or if Sheldon Day can't shoot a gap because Joe isn't there to "coach."

It's obvious, though, that the coaches think he is doing enough?

He loses on the angle to the sidelines nearly every time he has to move out into space.

That's been a problem, yes. I'm not sure how much the D line has been getting pushed back into his lanes on these plays, but I have seen our D Line getting blown back enough to think that it is possible that this accounts for at least some of Schmidt's trouble getting to the edge on time.

He doesn't do a great job at defeating blocks. If the OL gets their hands on him, he's done.

This is true of 99.99% of the linebackers in college football. VERY few college linebackers can consistently beat the blocks of offensive linemen. Even the great Manti Teo had problems with it. It's not a coincidence that Manti only had one monster year, and that year was the same year that he had two big time linemen(Nix and Tuitt) in front of him, keeping the O Linemen off of him.

He can't blitz. He doesn't time it up very well, and even if he does, he is ineffective at actually rushing the passer.

He's second on the team in sacks, in front of even Jaylon Smith. So maybe this is a bit of hyperbole.

I would make a judgement on his coverage abilities, but I feel like BVG sends him on a blitz in nearly every passing situation. I used to think it was trying to be clever; now I believe that they might be trying to mask his athletic deficiencies playing in space.

I don't think he's a great cover guy, but I did notice that he had good coverage a couple of times, in the 4thQ of the USC game. I'd prefer not to count on him to cover, though.

Does he make good plays? Absolutely. Is it important to have a guy out there that understands the defense? For sure. But he has played "bad" more consistently than he has played "good," and it's a problem when your MLB is such an athletic liability.

So all I ask is that people not kill the kid. If you want to present logical arguments for why he hasn't been good this year, then that's fine. But what I am saying is let's cut out all of the hyperbole and piling on about how "terrible" he is. For instance; my beef with Teo4Heisman's post, which I quoted in my post, was the inference that the article did nothing but cherry pick good plays for Schmidt, without mentioning any of his missed plays.

I'll bet that almost every one of you Joe haters said "fvck yeah", out loud, when you heard "You're 5 feet nothing, 100 and nothing, and you got hardly a speck of athletic ability. And you hung in there with the best college football team in the land for TWO YEARS, and you're also going to walk out of here with a degree from the University of Notre Dame. In this lifetime, you don't have to prove nothing to nobody....."

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Qoh3YkxuwVo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Someday, when your grandkids ask you if you saw Joe Schmidt play, you'll be able to say, "Yes. And grandpa was a real dick about how bad he was."

What is this defense going to do next year when Joe is gone? If it would really be such a steep drop off to take Joe off the field, then this unit is going to be bad.

Probably run a less complex scheme, playing to the abilities of the personnel on the field.

 

[Wingman Ray]

What are you even trying to say here? Prosise had a 91 yard TD run this year.

Prior to Prosise. I wrote that incorrectly.

 

[JD Irish]

In the Showtime series they continue to show Joe with that cheesy scream/yell thing he does before every game in the locker room. I always wonder if the better players just laugh inside and wish he'd use that intensity to not miss tackles. I played with a guy like that. You earn respect by kicking ass on the field, imo.


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I completely agree with this and had the same reaction. It just seems so contrived and annoying. Who wants to be screamed at/"led" by one of the worst players on the field (or at minimum someone who misses more tackles than he makes)?

 

[kmoose]

I completely agree with this and had the same reaction. It just seems so contrived and annoying. Who wants to be screamed at/"led" by one of the worst players on the field (or at minimum someone who misses more tackles than he makes)?

The same guy who votes him a Captain? There's a lot of valid criticisms of Joe Schmidt, but not having the respect of his teammates does NOT appear to be one of them.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

The same guy who votes him a Captain? There's a lot of valid criticisms of Joe Schmidt, but not having the respect of his teammates does NOT appear to be one of them.

Im not disagreeing with you regarding whether his teammates respect him, but doesn't BK select the captains rather than the players?

 

[kmoose]

Prior to Prosise. I wrote that incorrectly.

1. On Sept 1, 2012, George Atkinson had a 56 yard run against Navy.

2. On Oct 9, 2013, Cam McDaniel had a 36 yard run against USC.

3. On Nov 23, 2103, Tarean Folston had a 43 yard run against BYU.

4. On Aug 31, 2013, Amir CarLISLE had a 45 yard run against Temple.

5. On Oct 27, 2012, Cierre Wood had a 62 yard run against Oklahoma.

6. On Oct 20, 2012, Theo Riddick had a 55 yard run against BYU.

There's a half dozen runs of over 30 yards in the last 3 years. And that only takes into account the single longest run for each player listed. It does not include other runs of over 30 yards that they may have had. I get your point about athletes on the field, but you really should base your opinion in some kind of reality, rather than emotion.

 

[kmoose]

Im not disagreeing with you regarding whether his teammates respect him, but doesn't BK select the captains rather than the players?

No. They players vote on it. BK might pick the game captains, but not the season captains.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Im not disagreeing with you regarding whether his teammates respect him, but doesn't BK select the captains rather than the players?

He picked 10. They voted from there.

 

[wizards8507]

No. They players vote on it. BK might pick the game captains, but not the season captains.

I don't think that's true. Not 100% at least. I don't think it's as simple as "BK picks them" or "they're voted on by the players." It's some kind of hybrid in conjunction with the "leadership committee."

I know I've seen preseason pressers where questions were asked along the lines of "are you ready to name captains?"

 

[gkIrish]

Perhaps Joe was deservedly voted as captain by his teammates but as the season has progressed he has lost some respect in the locker room? Perhaps the team has resented all the attention he gets in the Showtime Series, combined with the fact that his play is lacking?

I think that's a very reasonable theory.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I get more and more angry when I see Joe in front of the camera. He just seems to ham it up so damn much with his corny yells about "taking it from them".

I'm over Joe, glad we have him on our team as he's certainly helped but I'm ready to see our young guys overtake this position. Let's see Nyles split reps the next few weeks.

 

[kmoose]

I don't think that's true. Not 100% at least. I don't think it's as simple as "BK picks them" or "they're voted on by the players." It's some kind of hybrid in conjunction with the "leadership committee."

I know I've seen preseason pressers where questions were asked along the lines of "are you ready to name captains?"

Brian Kelly names five team captains for 2015 team | Inside the Irish

The votes are in and Notre Dame’s football team will be captained by five players. Graduate students Matthias Farley, Nick Martin and Joe Schmidt will be joined by senior Sheldon Day and junior Jaylon Smith as the captains of the 2015 Irish.

It’s the first time since 2007 that the Irish have had five captains named. Both Martin and Day are returning captains, just the 20th and 21st players in the program’s history to hold that role twice. Last week, Brian Kelly mentioned that ten candidates were approved by the faculty board for the vote, a large group that says quite a bit about the leadership on this team.

I think that Kelly gives them a list of names to choose from. This year's list of eligible guys was 10.*

Interesting tidbit........ Nick Martin was named a captain for the second time. This is a rarity at ND. What's even rarer is that Nick's brother, Zach, was also a 2 time captain. The Golic brothers (Bob and Mike) are the only other set of brothers to both be 2 time captains in the history of Notre Dame football.


* - As it turns out, Ronnie Stanley was apparently NOT eligible, so it should be 9.

 

[kmoose]

Perhaps Joe was deservedly voted as captain by his teammates but as the season has progressed he has lost some respect in the locker room? Perhaps the team has resented all the attention he gets in the Showtime Series, combined with the fact that his play is lacking?

I think that's a very reasonable theory.

Theories are based on something. What are you basing this theory that Joe has lost some respect amongst his teammates on? The fact that JD Irish is annoyed by Joe's screaming on the show?

 

[gkIrish]

Theories are based on something. What are you basing this theory that Joe has lost some respect amongst his teammates on? The fact that JD Irish is annoyed by Joe's screaming on the show?

Do you watch the show?

 

[kmoose]

Do you watch the show?

I've watched it, yes...

 

[gkIrish]

I've watched it, yes...

I already know your answer but do you feel that the team responds positively to Joe? I don't and it seems like most people who watch the show agree with me.

 

[BabyIrish]

I already know your answer but do you feel that the team responds positively to Joe? I don't and it seems like most people who watch the show agree with me.

I've watched every episode and haven't seen any evidence of this statement. He seems well respected even if his play has been awful.

 

[IrishLax]

It seems like the problem you have with the breakdown is that they are not killing the kid over it. Because they are not being "apologists"; they are simply being objective, from an informed(having played and coached) point of view.

Disagree, based on every time Schmidt has been charted by professionals.

 

[Rocket89]

I'll defend Larz a little bit. I told him he'd catch a lot of heat for saying Schmidt has played well this year. He gave zero fucks about it. To be fair, I think if he broke down more snaps from other games he'd change his tune a little bit.

Having said that, one of the things we just didn't have the room to discuss was how much hyperbole has taken over in regards to evaluating Schmidt.

You just had to know, with his unique situation and former walk on status, and with Morgan behind him that many people couldn't wait to see Schmidt play poorly so they could crucify him. He's had some poor games, although I think USC was better, but it's going to take an enormous amount of playmaking for Schmidt to ever win some people over. Playmaking that he's frankly not capable and never has been capable of making.

"Joe gets pancaked 15 times per game!"

That's the kind of hyperbole that Joe can't escape. I've seen that as the main rebuttal to our piece and it's ten times more wrong than anything we published. But that's what happens when the mob mentality takes over.

Even in the clip mentioned a page back, Joe doesn't do great taking on a block and the gets taken down by a double team. Ummm, first of all that will happen sometimes to an under sized linebacker and secondly did anyone think that didn't happen last year when Schmidt supposedly played well? Who expects Joe to win those battles all the time? And anyway, the play resulted in Rochell getting a TFL because he ate up a one on one block. Yeah it'd be nice if Schmidt did better but when he's doubled and the play results in a tackle for loss the staff isn't going to kill Schmidt.

I don't think he's played well overall, but he's doing better than the majority of his critics think. He needs to wrap up better and if he can he's not that far off from his play from last year, when he was just a solid P5 middle linebacker, nothing more nothing less.

 

[gkIrish]

I've watched every episode and haven't seen any evidence of this statement. He seems well respected even if his play has been awful.

Look I don't know that Joe's level of respect has decreased. It's just my feeling based on what I see on the show. The locker room stuff is definitely persuasive IMO. When someone screams like that in a locker room, the desired response is a bunch of screaming players back at him. I don't think we've seen that after maybe week 1?

What evidence do you have that he is well-respected besides that he was voted a captain from a small pool of players? My argument is not that he didn't deserve to be voted captain, but that it seems like he has not handled it well.

 

[IrishLion]

I don't think it's really fair to say that. I mean, what is he being asked to do? Maybe he is doing almost everything that the coaches have asked of him? The missed tackles are obviously an issue, but they may not tell the whole story.

I don't know what he's been asked to do... but regardless, it's clear that a lot of the plays the defense makes are in spite of Joe, rather than because of Joe. It doesn't matter what he's being asked to do when he is a liability on many basic, early-down situations.

That's been a problem, yes. I'm not sure how much the D line has been getting pushed back into his lanes on these plays, but I have seen our D Line getting blown back enough to think that it is possible that this accounts for at least some of Schmidt's trouble getting to the edge on time.

Absolutely the lack of a push from our d-line doesn't help the linebackers at all. But the guys in the front can't be perfect every play, and even when they are, it just seems like Joe is a step slow every time he has to run to a gap, rather than being able to sit down in the middle.

This is true of 99.99% of the linebackers in college football. VERY few college linebackers can consistently beat the blocks of offensive linemen. Even the great Manti Teo had problems with it. It's not a coincidence that Manti only had one monster year, and that year was the same year that he had two big time linemen(Nix and Tuitt) in front of him, keeping the O Linemen off of him.

I would argue that Manti had two monster years, and that he was able to run through blockers and make physical plays, and at least had a chance at fighting through the OL, whereas Joe is finished once the OL has engaged. He gets swallowed up and driven down the field. Maybe I'm just putting a bit too much stock into a few ugly highlights, but it feels like it happens too often.

He's second on the team in sacks, in front of even Jaylon Smith. So maybe this is a bit of hyperbole.

The guy is blitzing 6+ times per game, and has two sacks. That's not a great ratio by any means when you are relying on him to rush the passer so much. But again, maybe a few ugly pass-rush attempts make it seem more common than it actually is.

So all I ask is that people not kill the kid. If you want to present logical arguments for why he hasn't been good this year, then that's fine. But what I am saying is let's cut out all of the hyperbole and piling on about how "terrible" he is.

I don't think I've piled on or used (too much) hyperbole. The things I've mentioned are legitimate issues. Even if you contend that they aren't as prevalent as I make them seem, the fact still remains that they ARE issues, and that all of those different issues being present in one guy's game is a big problem.

Someday, when your grandkids ask you if you saw Joe Schmidt play, you'll be able to say, "Yes. And grandpa was a real dick about how bad he was."

Absolutely. I was the same way with Tommy, and I'm the same way with Andy Dalton every Sunday. And I'm very honest about my prisoner-of-the-moment mood swings. I try to keep them off of IE and stay out of game threads though lol.

But at the end of the day, I'm as bipolar about Schmidt's play as his play actually is. And when you can describe your MLB's play as "bipolar," it doesn't make me feel awesome.

 

[ulukinatme]

Joe's screaming is awesome. It gets the blood pumping and reminds me of the glory days.
Joe's missed tackles are not awesome.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I'll defend Larz a little bit. I told him he'd catch a lot of heat for saying Schmidt has played well this year. He gave zero fucks about it. To be fair, I think if he broke down more snaps from other games he'd change his tune a little bit.

Having said that, one of the things we just didn't have the room to discuss was how much hyperbole has taken over in regards to evaluating Schmidt.

You just had to know, with his unique situation and former walk on status, and with Morgan behind him that many people couldn't wait to see Schmidt play poorly so they could crucify him. He's had some poor games, although I think USC was better, but it's going to take an enormous amount of playmaking for Schmidt to ever win some people over. Playmaking that he's frankly not capable and never has been capable of making.

"Joe gets pancaked 15 times per game!"

That's the kind of hyperbole that Joe can't escape. I've seen that as the main rebuttal to our piece and it's ten times more wrong than anything we published. But that's what happens when the mob mentality takes over.

Even in the clip mentioned a page back, Joe doesn't do great taking on a block and the gets taken down by a double team. Ummm, first of all that will happen sometimes to an under sized linebacker and secondly did anyone think that didn't happen last year when Schmidt supposedly played well? Who expects Joe to win those battles all the time? And anyway, the play resulted in Rochell getting a TFL because he ate up a one on one block. Yeah it'd be nice if Schmidt did better but when he's doubled and the play results in a tackle for loss the staff isn't going to kill Schmidt.

I don't think he's played well overall, but he's doing better than the majority of his critics think. He needs to wrap up better and if he can he's not that far off from his play from last year, when he was just a solid P5 middle linebacker, nothing more nothing less.

Put hyperbole, opinions, emotions, and everything else aside, the guy officially, statistical fact, has 5 tackles COMBINED in our two biggest games of the year so far. He is our MLB and plays a high majority of all snaps. That sucks any way you slice it, and eating up a 1 on 1 block is not an accomplishment. BTW Schmidt was not doubled on the clip in question, it was a single lineman that blew him 10 yards off the ball.

The people who are voicing their displeasure at his play this year and continued playing time have shown time and time again that he is not making impact plays and can't get off blocks...only to receive the "well he lines the defense up" rebuttal. Seriously, if he is not playing poorly this year, then please tell us where exactly he is performing adequately.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I get more and more angry when I see Joe in front of the camera. He just seems to ham it up so damn much with his corny yells about "taking it from them".

I'm over Joe, glad we have him on our team as he's certainly helped but I'm ready to see our young guys overtake this position. Let's see Nyles split reps the next few weeks.

This is when the criticism gets over the top. Sure, his play has been lacking and people should criticize it.

But it's gotten to the point where I read all over place that Joe does everything for the cameras and he's a fake and blah blah blah. Do you really think he waits for the camera and THEN starts to talk to the players? Do you think that in the middle of a heated game in front of 80,000 people that he is more interested in looking like a leader in front of the cameras than winning a game and leading his defense for real? Do you think he is the one who asks them to do stories on him, or that he asks the cameras to follow him?

I've played with guys just like Joe, and there were no cameras around...it was just their personality. Call me crazy, but perhaps Joe is always like that. It is in the realm of possibility. He was like this before Showtime...now it's just more in our face. But that's on ND and Showtime for pushing the story...that's not on Joe.

 

[Rocket89]

Put hyperbole, opinions, emotions, and everything else aside, the guy officially, statistical fact, has 5 tackles COMBINED in our two biggest games of the year so far. He is our MLB and plays a high majority of all snaps. That sucks any way you slice it, and eating up a 1 on 1 block is not an accomplishment. BTW Schmidt was not doubled on the clip in question, it was a single lineman that blew him 10 yards off the ball.

The people who are voicing their displeasure at his play this year and continued playing time have shown time and time again that he is not making impact plays and can't get off blocks...only to receive the "well he lines the defense up" rebuttal. Seriously, if he is not playing poorly this year, then please tell us where exactly he is performing adequately.

I think he's playing poorly given his skill set. And he played horribly against Clemson but a lot better versus USC.

Can't get off blocks? As in ever? How is that not hyperbole?

You'll notice I didn't mention Schmidt getting the defense lined up once. Plus, Schmidt wasn't much of an impact player last year either. That's not a huge knock on him in a vacuum.

He was driven to the ground once the second linemen got to him. So you pointed out one play, so what? That's supposed to convince us it happens all the time? We'd literally be the easiest team in the country to run on if it happened with any frequency.

He's been frustrating because he's often been in position to make plays and isn't finishing them. That's a lot different than "Schmidt gets blown off the ball all the time and is pancaked with regularity." It's been the former issue that's a big problem but unfortunately it's the latter issue that's drowned out all other discussion, as you're clearly showing us.

By the way, I would say he's played pretty well overal in zone coverage. It's almost never talked about on message boards but it's been important since we're not playing nickel anymore.