Does Amir Carslisle have to redshirt this year?
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notredomer23
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yes
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The question is whether or not Carlisle will pay his own way his year, thus freeing up a scholarship for 2012, or whether he counts against our 85 max immediately.
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From the UND article:
Refers to him as a transfer, but no mention of signing scholarship papers.
Refers to him as a transfer, but no mention of signing scholarship papers.
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Why not just post this in Amir's thread?
notredomer23
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way too much work bro!
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Good catch. Not sure how I missed that.
That's pretty compelling evidence that Carlisle's on scholarship. Guess we have 5 spots left.
JD Irish
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Is that counting Goodman?
GoldenIsThyFame
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TerryTate
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The OP asked whether AC would have to sit in 2012, which was answered with a resounded "Yes".
I followed up by mentioning that the real question is whether he'll be on scholarship for 2012. And it appears that he will.
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If he's on scholarship this would be surprising to me because every initial report was that USC was not releasing him. But those could obviously have been wrong.
In other news, Amir being on scholarship would mean 4 open spots counting Goodman as a 5th year. So that'd be Armsteads + CB + 1 (Ekanem?) with Goodman likely only losing his spot if someone like Agholor wanted to come.
In other news, Amir being on scholarship would mean 4 open spots counting Goodman as a 5th year. So that'd be Armsteads + CB + 1 (Ekanem?) with Goodman likely only losing his spot if someone like Agholor wanted to come.
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Tell him to update his twitter bio next time you see him.
B
Buster Bluth
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Yes, please.
Rhode Irish
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I agree. I'm not sure where that idea came from, but I always found it odd. I can't imagine him actually going through with the transfer if he knew that he not only would have to sit a year, but that it would cost him about $50K. I know we all love ND, but I don't even think I would have transferred in that situation.
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Buster Bluth
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I would pay $50k tomorrow for the opportunity to get an Urban Planning master's degree from Notre Dame. But, they don't have said program.
But yeah, I expect him to be on scholarship.
Rhode Irish
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I would pay $50k tomorrow for the opportunity to get an Urban Planning master's degree from Notre Dame. But, they don't have said program.
But yeah, I expect him to be on scholarship.
Yeah, so would I (you're talking to a guy that could build a pretty decent house for what I've spent on my education), but I didn't have the option of going to a pretty good school for free. I'm saying if I were in Amir's shoes, no way would I transfer if it meant I had to pay tuition for a year on top of sitting out of football for a year. Just doesn't seem like a good deal. He isn't a scrub who got chased out and had to transfer in order to play (which would make paying at least understandable). I know you're not necessarily disagreeing with me, just wanted to clear up my point.
The answer was posted in Carlisle's thread several days ago. This whole thread is redundant.
NCAA bylaws require a Div 1 transfer to sit out 1 year. The new school has the option of putting the athtelte on scholarship or having him pay his own way. If the new school provides a scholarship then the athlete is a counter despite being ineligible to play. IF the individual pays his own way, he is NOT a counter.
Do you recall Bemenderfer and Burger? They weren't offered athletic scholarships by ND and both played Div 1 football elsewhere, Northwestern and Dayton. Burger out of HS couldn't pass ND Admissions. He proved in the classroom that he could do well academically in college and both transferred into ND academically. Then walked on the football program and both earned football scholarships AFTER sitting out a year per NCAA requirement. Neither was a counter against the 85 man roster as they paid their own way while sitting out but became counters when they were placed on athletic scholarship. Athletic transfers can get student loans but not receive any scholarship athletic or academic or they become counters.
Whether it was the football coach or the Administration's policy in the past NOTRE DAME tranfers didn't get a free ride. Considering the high cost of a year at ND as well as the ND academic requirements and tranfer policy this effectively precluded most transfer candidates.
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Rhode Irish
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Not speaking for TT here, but with all due respect, BGIF, I get all of that. The part I think I would take issue with is where you say "the new school has the option," because, while that may be technically true, in practice it is really up to the kid. If he doesn't want to pay his own way then he doesn't have to transfer, and I just can't imagine Amir wanting to pay his own way. He is way too good of a football player to want to pay for college. It wasn't like he wasn't playing at USC and, despite what some here may feel, USC is not a bad school.
I'm not doubting that its technically possible, just that it was ever an option in this instance. Was there ever anything specifically with regard to Amir's transfer that indicated that he would consider paying tuition next year? If there was, I missed it.
NO, it's not up to the kid. Read the damn Bylaw.
It's up to the kid to decide if he wants to come on his own $50K IF the school doesn't exercise the NCAA OPTION to offer a scholarship OR go somewhere else.
Most Div 1 programs don't want to use up a scholarship for a kid that can't play until he can, particularly when scholarships are tight. AND, in the examples I've sited as well as others I'm aware of AT ND they walked on. I spoke to the Bylaw and past ND experience. It's really quite simple. IF Fr. Jenkins and Coach Kelly chose to change ND's past practice they can but we won't know that until they say so or Kelly reveals the Roster Count.
I have no knowledge of SPECIFIC details of Amir's enrollment. Nobody does outside of him, his family, and ND. Neither he nor the family noted that as I mentioned in his thread previously. Why would they?
Amir's father moved from California to the midwest and the family wanted to be closer together. Now he is.
The sole issue is whether he is a COUNTER or not. IF he's on scholarship he's a counter if not he isn't.
Rhode Irish
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Right. I get what you're saying about bylaws and counters vs. non-counters. That isn't my point. My point is that, with respect to this particular situation, as a practical matter it is up to the kid: he would not choose to transfer if he had to pay tuition.
Here's an analogy: you work for one company, but you'd rather work for a different company. So, you send out feelers to the other company and they tell you: "yeah, you can come work for us, but we'll have to retrain you and you have to pay 50K for that training, and you can't work during the year that you're training." Well, if you are a desirable employee, you're going to tell them to screw and find somewhere they will at least pay for your training. If, on the other hand, you're worried about your job security and/or you're worried about your ability to find another gig, you MIGHT consider that offer.
I'm not questioning whether a school can technically tell a kid that they have to pay tuition in order to avoid that kid "counting" toward scholarship limits. I'm just saying, in this particular case, that I find it unfathomable that Amir would be amenable to that arrangement, and therefore I find it hard to believe that that is an option for him. This isn't some backup interior lineman that we are doing a favor for. This is a sought after player who we are grateful to have (I'm not trying to overstate that case, I'm just saying it isn't like we have the kind of leverage here to demand that pay his own way if he wants to come - he'd just go somewhere else or stay put if he had to pay).
I'm not trying to fight with you, BGIF. I respect the hell out of you. I think we just have our signals crossed in this case.
Here's an analogy: you work for one company, but you'd rather work for a different company. So, you send out feelers to the other company and they tell you: "yeah, you can come work for us, but we'll have to retrain you and you have to pay 50K for that training, and you can't work during the year that you're training." Well, if you are a desirable employee, you're going to tell them to screw and find somewhere they will at least pay for your training. If, on the other hand, you're worried about your job security and/or you're worried about your ability to find another gig, you MIGHT consider that offer.
I'm not questioning whether a school can technically tell a kid that they have to pay tuition in order to avoid that kid "counting" toward scholarship limits. I'm just saying, in this particular case, that I find it unfathomable that Amir would be amenable to that arrangement, and therefore I find it hard to believe that that is an option for him. This isn't some backup interior lineman that we are doing a favor for. This is a sought after player who we are grateful to have (I'm not trying to overstate that case, I'm just saying it isn't like we have the kind of leverage here to demand that pay his own way if he wants to come - he'd just go somewhere else or stay put if he had to pay).
I'm not trying to fight with you, BGIF. I respect the hell out of you. I think we just have our signals crossed in this case.
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kmoose
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Ouch, he got stuck in Morrisey? Expect a transfer......
There's nothing wrong with Morrissey, although I preferred him with The Smiths.
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dshans
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